Basekit BT being this strong will actually make the game worse. tldr Camping.
Main concern from this patch now is that Borrowed Time is completely and totally worthless. Went from being one of the single strongest survivor perks in the entire game to being massively buffed and made basekit for 10s.
Here is why that's bad:
Basekit BT is only the first half of what is necessary to stop the unfun style of play you'd like to avoid. You're building this idea in players heads: "Basekit BT means that it's a bad idea to tunnel people after they get unhooked...."
You've correctly discouraged the behavior you don't want, now you need to encourage the behavior you do want.
If you don't, you run the risk of ######### killers completing the sentence incorrectly:
"Basekit BT means that I can't tunnel people after they get unhooked..................... which means I can't let them get unhooked to begin with. Camping is mandatory now to confirm kills! Stupid new meta!! Grrrrr!!"
On some level the devs seem to know this, hence the new survivor perk that aims to counter camping, but I don't think this is enough. Negative reinforcement in general isn't enough, if you only come at the problem with negative reinforcement you run the risk of it losing its potency. If all you do is shout at a dog whenever it does something bad, soon it won't care about your shouting.
You need to do something to make it easier for killers to engage a new survivor in chase.
There are a lot of ways to solve the problem, and this would be for the devs to brainstorm and figure out, but this is imo the core problem. That's the other reason why BBQ & Chili was the most popular perk in the game, as it provided a very okay-ish solution to this problem, in addition to a BP bonus too good to pass up.
imo
Survivors got one of their strongest perks massively buffed and made basekit.
Killers could stand to get one of their most okay-ish perks buffed and made basekit.
With all that said and done.
Off the top of my head, an idea for what that could possibly look like: Maybe on hook, have the survivor furthest away from the hooked survivor and the gen with the most progress on it, have their auras revealed for 4 seconds?
This wouldn't sabotage people hiding nearby for stealth or quick rescues, it wouldn't invalidate BBQ & Chili, it would incentivize the killer to go after someone who they've likely had the least interaction with, as well as keep them apprised of the general location of where survivors might be/will likely be in the future.
If the gen with most progress idea is too strong, then I'd suggest something akin to Devour Hope's 2 hook boost, something like, 10% movement speed if 24m or further from a hooked survivor, lost upon getting in chase. Or something like that. Like I said, there are tons of ways to go about solving this issue.
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Killers have an incentive not to tunnel it’s called Make Your Choice. They don’t run it nearly enough. So even with positive reinforcement to not tunnel killers will still choose to tunnel.
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BT base kit should disable in Endgame collapse.
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You've correctly discouraged the behavior you don't want, now you need to encourage the behavior you do want.
This. Incentives matter.
BBQ & Chili used to be the best perk in the game for survivors. Why? Because it usually gives the killer a target far from the hook to pursue and it had a great bonus to encourage killers to run it. It also gave them another objective in the game; to get 4 stacks.
It certainly didn't eliminate camping and tunneling. But from the complaints we're hearing now, it certainly seems that old BBQ helped reduce camping and tunneling.
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People don’t run it because the incentive isn’t good enough to be worth the perk slot. “Oh cool, someone on the other side of the map is exposed, that would be really useful if I was over there!”
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I think the side who just got an improved "just run x to counter"- perk added basekit shouldn't be saying "just run x" to counter the perk they got adde as a free fifth...
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Wait people are complaining about a 5 second borrow time basekit why it isn't that hard to time even with the added 10 seconds of borrow time
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I disagree I wouldn't care if the perk got disabled but base kit should never be disabled
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Make Your Choice doesn't work as an appropriate incentive for multiple reasons:
- It's delayed. Not on hook, on unhook. That does nothing to encourage positive behavior directly after hook.
- It's highly inconsistent. Does nothing to uninjured survivors.
- Most importantly, the distance requirement of 32m is far enough that even if the killer somehow knew exactly where the affected survivor was, which isn't a guarantee since they'll be doing their best to run/hide; and the killer ran towards the exposed survivor immediately, over half the duration is gone by the time they'd catch up. Then they have to start looping that survivor, and if they can last for just over 20 seconds, the perk does nothing.
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12 hooking becomes less of a reality the better survivors get. This base bt will manifest its own issues for survivors that rely to heavily on it and those that use it too well.
I think we are going to see far more killers limit their hook attention to just 2 survivors while slugging the others for pressure if they attempt body blocking.
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Yes, MYC is only consistent on SOME teleport killers like Demo and Dredge.
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We saw it does not work that way. Patch 6.1.0 prooved that if camping is easier, but no longer necessary, that killers will camp more instead of camping less.
So reinsurance + new BT are cool solutions. Going by the experience from 6.1, we got exactly what we need.
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What's the problem with hitting the base kit BT? Did you know that the haste effect immediately disappears, as well as the ability to press E?
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My concerns are less about camping, but giving survivors basekit free unsafe unhooks the killer cannot immediately punish.
There is nothing wrong with re-downing the person instantly if you can.
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I think that is an important issue that most people aren't considering. Most survivor mains just view it through the selfish lens of "tunneling bad, anything to hurt killers in this regard can't go far enough" etc
Yes tunneling is unfun, however, I don't know if giving all survivors free unsafe rescues as part of their basekit is the solution. As I've outlined in my original post, I think it could very well be part of the solution, hell it could even go further than it does now, but this can't be the only way this issue is addressed. Negative reinforcement alone is simply not going to work, killers will just double down on needing to tunnel someone out of the game at 5 gens if you don't make it easier to do otherwise.
Baskit BT is treating symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself, which means it will just shift the negativity in this interaction to the other side. If you as a survivor make awful plays, if you mess up and loop the killer around a hooked survivor, or you lead the killer right back as a rescue is happening, you and your team deserve to suffer for that mistake. Why should the game bend over backwards to protect that? How is that fair?
People are going to get really butthurt if camping gets worse and they won't understand why. Mark my words, if camping gets worse next patch all the survivor mains on twitter will start crying again about how you can't give killers ANY buffs because ALL they want to do is camp and tunnel forever!!!
As is the case in all things, if you listen to the twitter mob you'll continue to learn the wrong lessons.
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At first BT only activated when Killer was within TR of the unhook... and not Undetectable
Then it was changed to activating anytime an unhook happens
so Survivor perks are some of the reason that Camping and Tunneling happened... who else sees it
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I can't get enough of this perk, especially on dredge rn.
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