Changes to Clown base power
Not sure if this idea has already been mentioned, but I think Clown could do some with changes to his power.
I think he should have separate reserves of the yellow bottles and purple.
4 purple, 4 yellow, but any add ons that changes number affect each respectively. So more bottle add ons would just change purple numbers. This means his mobility is untoched allowing him to get around quicker putting more game pressure rather than just chase pressure.
That means his iridescent invigorating bottle to see auras would lower the amount of yellow bottles he has by 1/2 so it can't be spammed, but still has his purple untouched.
I think Clown needs this mobility to pull him up in terms of power. Obviously, reload times could be changed to make reloading something that has to be thought about rather than whenever and wherever. I think a separate reload would add unneeded complexity, so still single reload, but maybe a longer time. This means if they've used all yellows to get around, the player can figure out if it's worth the reload to get back the yellows or continue and have purples left.
In a game where Nurse can ignore game mechanics, Oni can charge across a map in seconds, Dredge can teleport across the map at will, I believe allowing Clown to have better access to his mobility will make him better to play.
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As a clown enjoyer myself, I think yellow bottles are slept on. That being said I don't think 8 basekit bottles is fun or fair from the survivor's perspective. I've been working on balance ideas, and for Clown I would add 1 or 2 more bottles, and reduce Redhead's Pinkie Finger accordingly.
Another mad idea I've had is having yellow bottles give a 20% bonus to either A: all actions, or B: Fire Up perk actions. I would think Fire Up actions would be a better list, and restricts the Clown from accidentally buffing survivors in strange situations, instead only buffing their vault speed if the clown misplays.
Also his add-ons are a bit hit or miss. You have insanely powerful or fun to use add-ons, like the Redhead's Pinkie Finger in the powerful camp (Exposed on direct purple hit), and the Cigar Box (aura read for 16m when yellow bottle buffed, Surv or Killer) in both camps. However then you have a 30s blind on purple bottle, 20% size and spread speed as 2 add-ons, 1 for each bottle type individually, and 2 different bottle throw cooldown add-ons? If Clown got an retouching I would give him the +2 bottle add-on as basekit, and fix each of those weaker add-ons as well as replacing extra bottle add-ons. (Alternatively +1 basekit, and keep the +1 add-on, while only replacing the +2.)
I think one possible replacement is how some killers get a teachable perk in a lessened fashion as an add-on. In a sense Coulrophobia is covered with the Mangled add-on, but that doesn't stack with existing Mangled perks. Perhaps to cover Pop Goes the Weasel have the purple spread add-on to instead allow Purple bottles to damage a gen 10% current progress on direct hit on the gen and start regression (maybe even counting as a kick, or limited to one activation per reload), but only if it isn't currently regressing. The yellow spread add-on could now instantly create yellow gas, instead of waiting for the delay. I would also extend the Blindness to 60s. I would also combine the throw cooldown add-ons for the brown version, and make the yellow version instead give Oblivious for 60s. The Solvent Jug adds 1s for yellow bottle duration, and when they previously announced a buff for it they made it as good as the purple (edit: rarity) version at 2s. They clearly forgot it even existed, and the buff never reached live after that was mentioned. I would buff the yellow (edit: rarity) version to 2s, and make the purple (edit: rarity) one increase the action speed boosts instead, perhaps by double.
Overall though, I think the greatest buff is going to be the meme of a Clown with "Superior Anatomy". Making a SWF call that out on coms is chef's kiss. "Look out guys! He has SUPERIOR ANATOMY!"
Post edited by mizark3 on2 -
I love the idea of hitting a gen with a bottle regresses it @mizark3.
But I still don't think giving clown more bottles will make up for his lack of game pressure. Nemesis is oppressive in chase, yet still has no map pressure if the zombies are walking into trees/walls, etc.
All killers should be in the top tier, so that the game can be balanced around it. Make Clown powerful and then change the game accordingly.
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I would argue lethality is a form of game pressure, when I have 2 people injured and chasing the third while the 4th is hooked I have plenty of pressure. The issue is reaching that point. Most problems for M1 killers stem from map design imo.
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As one who has identified as a Clown main for years, I wouldn't mind if Clown got some buffs. Some addon improvements like @mizark3 suggested would be nice. OP's suggestions are awful.
But I am also fine with Clown staying as he is, I don't really care that he's weak.
One buff I don't think the Clown needs in more bottles base kit. Either get good with the bottles, eat a reload in chase or use an addon for more bottles. The only way he should get more bottles base kit is if they force him to reload at lockers.
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Way to give constructive criticism by just saying my ideas are awful. Great discussion.
You might be happy for him to be weak, but as I stated in my post, if killers are all buffed to a similar level, things can be more equal for all.
Clown needs buffs. He's a weak killer. This everyone seems to agree on.
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I think 8 total bottles is too much personally. What I would do is give him 4 purple bottles and 1 yellow that has a 10 second Cooldown after use. This would allow clowns to use their antidote without eating into their tonic reserve and staying on the move more often
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The only change i want is to swap screams to killers instict when intoxicated.
Hitting with his power screams: "hey, killer is busy, do gens"
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If you read my entire post you can see that I did give constructive feedback later in the post.
Also, calling your suggestions awful is not a personal attack on you. If you can't handle critique on your suggestions you shouldn't put them forward in the first place.
You need to think of something better than giving the Clown more bottles to buff him. Clown is an easy killer, has a low skill ceiling and he is not that interesting to play against. Giving him more bottles would just make him more oppressive but he would still not be anymore interesting.
If you want to think of a way to buff Clown you need to think of something that raises his skill ceiling and hopefully has an interesting counterplay.
I like this idea. The survivors should be too busy coughing to scream anyway.
I think a neat idea for a purple Clown addon would be: After completing a reload action the farthest away survivor's aura is revealed for 3 seconds. It might need a cooldown though.
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The fact that clown can move at 115% while having access to a strong ranged attack is more than enough to make him opressive in chases...
One bottle and you are already 30% faster than the survivor. Can increase it to 40% with an extra yellow bottle.
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"strong ranged attack" are you playing a different game or something? All it does is slow and make their vision blur.
Being quicker than survivors still isn't giving him any game pressure though is it.
When the way to beat a killer is just predrop pallets, it shows an issue.
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It is strong on low mmr range. Weak against good survivors. As ByeByeQ mentioned - giving him some kind of ability that is hard to use, but provides strong benefit when executed right can be cool buff. But it needs to have some counterplay.
You can't have easy killer with simple execution that is also super strong (and clown is super easy - maybe not counting yellow bottles). That would be game breaking.
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he only needs his yellow bottle to be instant and the yellow bottle to not give 10% speed to the survivor. 10% speed is 5x stronger then dark theory perk....
if you want more ammo to use bottles, use cheap gin bottle add-on or soda add-on. Cheap gin gives you 6 bottles so you can use 3 pink/3 yellow and soda gives +1 for 3 pink/2 yellow or any combination of pink/yellow.
do you want him to be 110% m/s,,,,? whats the point of slowing survivor down if your slower then every other base m/s killer?
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Yellow bottles are the only thing making his kit at least a little bit skill-based, because it creates gamble - if you use it wrong, you will boost survivor. Removing this aspect means you are creating "dead stupid killer". Meaning he can't be strong against good survivors, because it would be very boring for the game.
If anything, I would buff clown by buffing yellow bottle effect (which creates higher risk/reward scenario).
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yellow bottles already have a strong effect. They are high-reward as is. you just need to time speed boost at the correct times to get value of it the bottles. The problem is that activation period disables your ability to time speed boosts at the precise correct time. they don't need more reward. the effect is already really good.
buffing the survivor movement speed is not a gamble. its a survivor power. you might as well make it that pink bottles hindered the clown by 15% if he clown walks through them while your at it. Surely that will make him ultra-high reward/ultra high risk. wink wink
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No. Pink is good the way it is. It helps killer chase survivor. Yellow helps mindgame some loops without breaking the pallet, but risking actually helping said survivor if done incorrectly.
Buffing yellow bottle effect would mean more loops would be playable, but there would be even higher risk that survivor gets away. That is good tradeoff and actually make clown more skillfull. As a sidenote - it might actually make it worth to use yellow bottles to move on the map
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Yellow helps mindgame some loops without breaking the pallet, but risking actually helping said survivor if done incorrectly.
Survivor can just leave loops before gas activates and it makes you waste bottles. that's why a common suggestion on clown ends up being that he should have more ammo so he can "stop" wasting bottles when actual problem is the killer having no skill-cap over the ability.
the way current yellow bottle feels intended be used is when a survivor pre-drops a pallet, you can throw purple bottle at the survivor as they drop a pallet, switch bottles, then throw yellow bottle at the pallet and break it. I don't know, its just weird, feels like they design the bottles to be used for pallet zoning over playful pallet play with survivor speed boost.
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