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Reassurance, Part 2
So now that the new patch notes have been released, it appears that I was correct in assuming the perk would get a pretty hefty nerf. BHVR says the reason for the change is because "this could have been abused to keep the hooked Survivor permanently on the hook, preventing them from being sacrificed against their will." Let's be real for a sec. If that was actually the reason, BHVR could have implemented a means for the hooked survivor to voluntarily deactivate the perk.
The real reason for the change seems to be that killers were upset that it interfered with their ability to camp hooks, sort of like the reason Awakened Awareness was nerfed purely because it hindered Nurse players. At the end of the day, killers should not be encouraged to camp hooks. If they want to, perks like Reassurance were supposed to punish them. Apparently having an anti-hook camp perk is a no-go. If you saw the changes they made to unhooked survivors too, you'd also notice that once again, they didn't take steps to actually resolve the issue of tunneling, just to enable survivors the ability to move a bit further and not touch anything.
Thoughts? Was this entirely expected? Do you believe their reason for the nerfs?
Comments
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The user and all related content has been deleted.9
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The CD was insane. We all assumed the 40 sec CD started after the effect ended, cause you know otherwise it would be insane. This is more in line with what it should have done in the first place.
A 30 sec pause every 10 seconds ... what?
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People don't understand that Reassurance could have easily been abused. Not only against camping killers, but also against survivors on the hook to keep them there. The devs recognized the danger and did the right thing. And like you said: This perk is much better now in terms of design.
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Honestly yeah. Good players would have used it to keep their team mates on death hook safe and trolls would have griefed with it but all of that is secondary to how insane the cool down was in the first place.
People dont have the most basic common sense in this game and i have no clue what breaks them like this or if they were already broken in the first place lol
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It deserved to be nerfed. I am sorry but there shouldn't be a perk that can hold hostage or keep someone alive forever no metter what.
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I'm sorry... are you implying this perk no longer slows down camping?
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What do you do in the endgame? Just don't camp lol
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Why was the CD insane?
It's a bad perk. It is basically a weaker, more conditional version of a baseline feature. It ONLY benefits you against camping killers or really, really bad ones.
The only valid complaint was the griefing one, but that didn't warrant the perk's neutering.
Now getting, at max, thirty seconds out of it is not enough for a perk that, effectively, only the killer can activate.
If you're terrified of a survivor being incapacitated for an additional thirty seconds as opposed to being taken off hook to help his or her team, you're probably playing above your skill level.
And if Reassurance scares you, I think we can make an educated guess as to how you got there.
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I'm not going to sit here and spoon feed you the reasons why a 10 second cool down on a 30 second effect is insane.
If you cant understand why, there is no conversation to be had.
Love you honey <3
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No, you're not. Because you can't argue it. It's a 10 second cooldown for a 30 second effect that -keeps another survivor incapacitated for longer-.
Very OP.
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Yeah, I'm not tired of it. Because it's baffling that you don't understand how bad Reassurance is when used in any situation that doesn't involve a camping killer. You legitimately think that killing off one of your own teammates one chase earlier and committing two perks and part of two survivors' output to do it is a bad idea. You think that it's unfair that a killer who gets thrown a bone and gets someone out of the game a full chase earlier and has two survivors constantly bouncing to the hook to sustain Reassurance could possibly miss a kill if they can't manage to get a single down in all that extra time they've been bought. And you think it's a good idea for a killer who is struggling that enormously badly to still get that kill and thus keep them in the skill bracket where they -clearly- don't belong.
You just don't look at the perk's played scenarios, you just go 'ten seconds downtime for 30 second effect OP', in disregard of what the effect actually is. You think a killer deserves that kill, no matter how badly they get outplayed by survivors.
And then you whinge about others not having common sense.
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I truly dont understand what s so abusable of this perk.
On the killer side, you can just not camp the hooked surv, or go for the unhooked. It is not like the perk stun-locks the killer to the hook.
On the surv side, yes, you can chain pause the hook and leave the surv hanging for minutes, but for what purpose? If there really are 3-man troll squads willing to stop everything they are doing just to combo reassurance, they are literally throwing the game. There is no benefit in leaving 1 of 4 of your team strength on hook just to be an ass.
Even if the griefing part was to be so unbereable that would require a change, the devs could have just add an option to the hooked surv of canceling reassurance if he thinks the team was trolling.
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Reassurance is still a good perk against non-camping killers.
If the killer is returning to the hook to disrupt the rescue, Reassurance helps defuse the situation somewhat. The rescuer reassures the hooked and takes chase and someone else can get the rescue before the one on the hook might not got Stage 2 or die before being rescued.
What if you're a little late getting the rescue? Reassurance can save a hook state there too.
I agree with the changes. Nothing should be able to work indefinitely in DbD.
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Yes there is but it's the fact it CAN be abusable is the reason why they nerfed it. After reading the changes it's not as bad as I thought.
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Another trash survivor perk. As always, to give survs perks they listen to killer mains. And probably they don’t know yet why people are abandoning this game
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when you gonna realize the devs don't care
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So you would have been okay with hanging an hour on the hook?
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I did it's not fun
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I think the nerf was fine. I said it needed some limitations and it got it.
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Loads of people were saying that survivors should've been given the ability to opt out of the perk's effect, and that would fix the only problem with the perk. Instead it got about 90% of its potential removed with a big fat double whammy nerf to the one job it's supposed to do.
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After the hard nerf, a survivor still has up to 5 Minutes on the hook. I repeat 5 Minutes. Thats more than enough to complete all gens and attempt a rescue during endgame.
If you´ve never encountered toxic teammates, then you are a lucky person. But the truth is, that before the nerf, your teammates could have taken you hostage for an infinite amount of time. Giving survivors a button to release early would have simply shifted the way of it being abusable to the hooked survivor suiciding instantly. Which is currently a problem.
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Not sure where you're getting your calculation, but 120+90 = 210, which is 3.5 minutes, not 5.
EDIT: Unless it's been confirmed that the patch notes meant to say 'once per hook state' as opposed to 'instance'.
But the truth is, that before the nerf, your teammates could have taken you hostage for an infinite amount of time.
A) This would require the killer to participate
B) This could've been fixed without nerfing the perk
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It amazes me how most survivor mains are completely ignorant to the fact that the perk can be abused against non-campers.
Someone hides near the hook, pops Reassurance, goes back to their gen. The next person in chase runs to the hook, pops their Reassurance, and keeps going. There is no threat to the hooked survivor's life and the survivors not being chased can finish gens. The killer is not camping, but they're being punished for camping.
If you think scenarios like this won't happen, look no further than base kit BT and OTR - both intended as anti-tunnel measures, but both often used to body block for rescuers or other teammates. Remember how often old DS was used aggressively and had to be nerfed into the ground? Just because something is intended to be used one way doesn't mean it won't be used in other ways.
And this is without even taking into consideration the fact that it can be abused to hold a survivor hostage. Can't wait for the 3-man SWFs to run past the poor solo on hook just to keep them there.
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I don't think anyone ever questioned the power of coordinated swfs.
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They don't even need to be co-ordinated cos you can see the bar flash to indicate the hook timer's paused AND the survivor glows white under the effect.
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Then how are you going to effectively cycle Reassurance? How are you deciding who goes first and not all run to the hook at the same time?
Bare minimum, you'd want everyone to run Kindred + Reassurance, and each running a different survivor. If the random people in your lobbies even own those anyway.
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5 minutes = 2 hook stages.
How would the killer participate? He can´t unhook? He can leave the hook and the teammates could keep the hooked survivor on hook as long as they are alive.
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First of all, you need to be 6mts close to the hook which is not as great of a distance, so it is not that easy as "hide close to the hook to reassurance" unless the killer is truly careless or you are in map with two floors.
Second, even if the situation of you chasing another surv and they looping close to the hook to activate reassurance mid chase, then you still got two survs that are not working on gens so you are not being 'punished' for not camping. In current dbd where gen rush is key to survive, having one on hook and one in chase is not bad at all.
Third, why do you think it will be so common for 3 man swf to troll a random on hook? They dont receive any advantage, any benefit from it. I just cant wrap my head on the idea of a 3 'moustachely evil' swf losing the game on purpose just to troll one random guy. And even if this would be so common, which i dont believe, the devs could have given an option for the hooked one to cancel reassurance without nerfing the perk
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That's the point. As long as those survivors are alive. If the killer continues playing as normal and just gives chase, that 'forever hooked' scenario doesn't play out. Eventually there's going to be two people on hook, one in chase, one on Reassurance duty, so at that point, it's already no longer infinite.
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But as the OP stated, the abuse case wasn't specifically addressed, allowing survivors to voluntarily end the condition early. This was a blanket change rather than a surgical change. The perk was much better in the original form as it was a hard counter to negative behavior, and only needed 2 people to permanently counter it. I would say there should be a basekit fix, but as far as band-aids go Reassurance was as good as they come.
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Reassurance let's a single survivor pause hook timers for up to 3 minutes in a single trial. That is already very strong. The numbers of the ptb were nutty and the perk with the ptb values rewarded survivors leaving their teammates on hook rather than attempting to save them which wasn't a healthy design.
Frankly, I'm glad the perk got changed in a way that still makes it very useful but doesn't just reward survivors leaving their teammates on hook. The perk would be far worse if the devs went the route of nerfing the duration or cooldown.
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It is strong if the killer is willing to spend 3 minutes face camping someone even if he knew they are spamming reassurance. If you continue to camp while knowing you will be countered by reassurance, then it is not the perk effect's problem.
Like saying "Lightborn is too strong" because i am constantly trying to blind the killer.
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The scenario you describe is just detrimental to the survivors though, not the killer, UNLESS they are actually camping (which you said they aren't in your scenario).
In your scenario, the survivors are purposefully playing a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 whilst also actively having to get off gens or mid chase... run up to the hook and use Reassurance, instead of unhooking? There'd be a max of 2 survivors on a gen because 1 is being chased and 1 is on hook.
Why wouldn't they just unhook the survivor and get 3 people on gens, unless the killer was camping? The scenario does not make sense and is only detrimental to survivors. Unless as I say, you're actually camping.
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Non-camping killers... yet the killer is disrupting the rescue? That sounds like he was camping to me if he was in range to disrupt the rescue.
Rescuer takes chase but still got within 6m of the hooked survivor? If they had to go in the direction of the hooked survivor, the killer had to be camping to force that scenario.
Little late getting the rescue... at 6m to activate? That is 1.5s of survivor running at 4m/s, and 3s of unhooking. That buys you 4.5s so that turns 59s rescues into 63.5s rescues.
Each example of a "non-camping killer" was actually a killer camping, and late to the rescue gives you a whopping four and a half seconds. I'm sorry, but your complaints have to be pretending in falsehoods in order to prevent nerfing camping.
Edit: To be fair, I will allow a survivor being near hook when their ally is being hooked changing the hook to a 90s hook being an abuse case scenario, which could also be fixed by needing at least 10s on hook before it can be used.
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If we really want to be real for a second, BHVR could have kept the perk exactly the same, but have given the hooked survivor the easiest skill checks for the entire duration, so the hooked survivor had the option to let go on hook, and have the easiest skill checks to ensure they could stay in the game if they wanted to.
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Imagine the killer is playing fair and attempting to spread the hooks evenly = tries to go for 12 hooks. The survivor could spend way longer than 5 minutes on said hook.
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Uh... Sure, if the survivors are just gonna hand the killer the win. I mean, it's literally worse for the survivors than if the guy on hook just timed out and died.
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You underestimate toxic SWF squads that are bored.
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2 Questions:
1) I heard the killer will see a white aura on the surv on the hook, will the other survs see that too?
2) Could the other survs still unhook?
If yes, it's gonna be like Camaraderie, which... almost nobody uses in solo Q but can be stupidly strong in SWFs.
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Frankly, I am amazed in two ways:
a) that BHVR thought in the first place that such a perk with just 10s downtime would be good or healthy or balanced
and
b) in the way they eventually nerfed this perk.
10s downtime is obviously CRAZY! Al comparable perks with a strong effect have a lengthy CD of some 60‐90s. At the very least the Cooldown timer should only have started after the 30s duration expired.
In the same vain, a single activation per hook state seems barely worth it. The perk functions sorta like an inverse camaraderie, but someone has to come close,but not quite close enough to do a proper unhooking.
How about a token system? IE every survivor with the perk can use it three times per trial. This would allow a bit more flexibility and a single survivor could potentially traverse between their gen and the camped survivor a few times,while everyone else slams gens efficiently.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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Reassurance was nerfed because of killer complaints. Survivor "mains" who are complaining about being held hostage on the hook are secretly campers. If BHVR really wanted to make sure that was not abused, they could have done a totally different change. There are so many possibilities such as:
-In the first phase, the hooked survivor can still attempt to unhook themselves. In the second phase, the skill checks could have been present (they could remain the size accordingly to the entity's timer)
or
-Make the Reassurance "button" appear for the hooked survivor, so you just get close and they press the ability button to activate it. Now they decide whether they want to stay there or not. Ah, of course, survivors would still kill themselves for no reason and ruin the game, right? Still, it's a viable option.
But no, they nerfed to the point that camping is still strong and killers are guaranteed a couple of kills doing nothing and also adding nothing to the fun.
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Most people seem to be unaware of the usefulness of 'drive by' Reassurance in resetting pressure/setting up survivor plays.
You really need to lower your expectations here and save your keystrokes.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.2
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Reassurance being only usable once per a hook instance does not make it at all like Kinship.
Kinship is a hard once per a match that requires other survivors on your team to know you have it. It's a situational perk that relies on coordination that makes it unattractive to soloq.
Reassurance on the other hand does not require any sort of coordination with your teammates. Heading to an unhook and the killer starts to chase you, pop reassurance and leave the hook. Now your teammates have more time to get the save and the guy on hook is less likely to reach 2nd state. Killer camping, pop reassurance for an extra 30 seconds of time the killer stays around the hook as you try to force progress on the objective.
A single survivor with reassurance has up to 3 minutes of time they can buy the team (6 procs at max). That's quite a lot of time.
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Yeah, nobody can explain this. There is no use, Reassurance was perfect in the PTB, it just needs a little tweak to avoid these kinds of abuses
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To OP, this must be trolling right? For the Reassurance nerf, read below. Bad design needs to go, period. 30 seconds is still enough to allow a lot of gen progress, you can even do a gen near the hook and activate it a second time on the next hook stage, which basically allows every survivor to finish a gen. 3 gens for a single hook stage is quite a bit. Beneath that I cant really remember that there were killers yelling "I can't camp now D'UH"
And the nerf for Awakened Awareness? How was that hindering the nurse? This is actually to nerf nurse, old Awareness was way too strong if you combine with Starstruck and Lethal. 4 seconds aura reading on an exposed survivor within 20m? That's a safe double down on each semi decent nurse.
And regarding the basekit BT and the conspicious actions, there you completely ignore how old DS was abused. Nice one. Argue without even half of the facts, cant take this serious.
So they listened to killer mains when they invented the perk to finish gens solo in about half the time it should take?
It is a band aid perk as others in the game, but a much needed one. That only the killer can activate? Is the same on BT and Unbreakable for example right? Do you trashtalk Unbreakable like that? It is a game changer when it comes to action and is exactly for this situation. You can say the same on almost every perk, everything is conditional. No Dead Hard against insta downs or SLinger/Legion, RIP Bite The Bullet when the killer has Nurses Calling and so on and so on.
You bring this perk as asssurance to counter a playstyle you dislike, or to counter it when it simply makes sense to camp.
And the CD was insane because you could activate it 5 times per hook stage. Two survivors can keep the hook stage active for an unlimited time. And this is simply a bad design, nothing in the game, for whatever solid or dumb reason, should ever allow to extend anything for an unlimited amount of time. The trolling factor is the same reasoning like the mori spamming that was possible for killers not too long ago, which stopped the bleed out process and could take the last survivor hostage for hours. Bad design, needs to go. This was not about 30 seconds of not being able to give up
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The user and all related content has been deleted.Post edited by EQWashu on1
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I think you and Crowman dont disagree. He said that it is still very strong, he said that the PTB version was nuts and needed to go. The PTB perk effects problem was the infinite hook stage hostage which is simply bad design and shouldnt be in the game, no matter for what reasoning
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people do understand this, what you seem to not understand is the fact that all bhvr needed to do was add a way for the hooked survivor to opt out and it would've been fine. but you keep glossing over that and just going hurr durr its abuseable.
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