I think DBD is kinda Pay-to-Win

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DogeDogeMan
DogeDogeMan Member Posts: 22
edited April 2022 in General Discussions

All licensed killers require you to pay, and they can have powers no other killer has. And the other killers can also be bought with money, and that is quite unfair. And for all killers, they have their personal perks, which can only be got if you have gotten them. Yes, the Shrine of Secrets is another thing, but it is way worse, considering that it takes a WEEK to refresh, and there are only 4 perks there.

My point is that DBD should add ways to earn auric cells for free (like prestiging characters like in DBD mobile). I also think that you could have a 5% chance to get a perk you don't have a teachable for, in place for another perk (but to make it more balanced, you could make it stuck to level 1, or even downgraded).


Ok, I read some of your comments, and I say KINDA Pay-to-Win, not downright Pay-to-Win. I also saw some mentioning the shrine, ahem, read till the end.

Post edited by DogeDogeMan on
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Comments

  • HexDaddyissues
    HexDaddyissues Member Posts: 328
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    you can "buy" pretty strong perks in the shrine of secrets. some of which are usually only obtainable by buying one cahracetr and leveling them up to teachable perk level.


    this was a very ill thought out post

  • TinoTheThortino
    TinoTheThortino Member Posts: 35
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    Nurse: "Am I a joke to you?"

    Jokes aside, do you really think Behaviour would let people earn Auric Cells for FREE? (pardon for the eventual bad English, I'm Italian)

    Dude, do you understand how is this game going?

    The only way they can get money to "improve" the quality of the game is with cosmetics, special characters, etc. They're in a bad situation where balancing the game is really hard and they are still adding more and more features, the community is very little and new people are not involved to play DBD because the gameplay is not simple, fun and for everyone. Also I think is good to mention that their marketing strategy is too weak.

    Talking about the gameplay, personally I think that what you said is wrong: I play both killer and survivor (mostly killer) and I manage almost all the "free" characters available. Part of them doesn't even have good, or just, not-free perks and I still play, without so many problems.

    Also there are so many killers in high-tier free to use or purchasable with Iri-shards too like Nurse, Huntress, Hag, Oni and perks like Nurse's Calling, Ruin, Pain Resonance, Bamboozle, Pop, etc.

    Honestly, I think the Shrine of Secret is worth because sometimes gives you limited perks, that's the only positive thing. Iri-Shards are also quite easy to farm as long as you play the game.

    So, I agree with the reroll on the Shrine, It's a cute feature they can add... but the gameplay doesn't depend on money at all, just bad balancing.

  • Ula
    Ula Member Posts: 276
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    I would also say "dbd is kinda pay to win", or at the very least "pay to grind less".

    BBQ is very popular not only because the effect is decent, but because people who play it want the extra bloodpoint. Why is bubba the most popular killer among beginners? How many people recommend Bubba as 1st killer?

    The shrine of secret is cute, but the time it takes for a specific perk you're looking for to appear there is ridiculous too. So yes, technically, you don't have to pay to get perks, but be ready to play a ton and wait a year.


    I think the author's statement is fair, and I think the game shouldn't have shame to agree on that. You guys need to make money after all.

  • FFirebrandd
    FFirebrandd Member Posts: 2,445
    edited April 2022
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    It's really not.

    There's several licensed killers that are good but I don't even know if any of them are in the top five. In addition to that, you can make very serviceable builds without any perks from licensed characters and

    The only way it is slightly pay to win is BBQ and DS. Those two perks are fantastic for their respective sides but are found on license killers. The Shrine of Secrets does mitigate that a bit... but the shrine honestly needs to be made better. Even just upgrading it to 4 perks from each side and making it impossible for perks from free characters to show up there would be a massive improvement. Seriously... nobody needs Urban Evasion to be in the Shrine.

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,531
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    The only P2W thing I can think of is DS. New players kinda need an anti tunnel option and having it licked to paid only dlc is an issue

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623
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    Nurse is free.

    Dead Hard is free

  • Cardgrey
    Cardgrey Member Posts: 1,454
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    Lol dbd p2w omg if only you had any idea. I'd say killers are more like expansions then p2w also they do have a random 4 perk buying system so you can get perks they have sooner or later.

    In the simplest terms, "pay-to-win" describes a game where paying real money gives players a significant advantage over those who don't spend any money. Simply having microtransactions does not make a game pay-to-win.

    Kinda like how wow is p2w via their token.

    Dbd may not be perfect but it's far from p2w say Mikey was the strongest so what you won't run into him every match in a real p2w environment they would force you into a match as much as possible with him to get you to buy him I don't think bvdr does that .

  • lauraa
    lauraa Member Posts: 3,195
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    The problem with Killer is the gargantuan grind, not by being pay to win.

  • Senpai_J
    Senpai_J Member Posts: 62
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    I agree if the definition of p2w is you can buy power with money, which is true.

    It does have a cap tho, being w/e perks you need and w/e skin gives you the best advantage, it's p2w but it isn't ridiculously dumb tier. Whether you accept this form of monetization is really up to u.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    The only real outlier would be BBQ, which requires a licensed killer (and I haven't seen it in the Shrine in donkey's years).

    With how arduous the grind is, BBQ is one of the only realistic ways to help out.

    That said:

    Eh...not really. I can't think of a single licensed killer that is top tier.

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,620
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    I mean, you could say that there are strong perks that only paid DLC's has then we might get a solid ground to debate on.

  • Swiftblade131
    Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 2,050
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    Pray that the good perks are in the shrine.


    Or shuffle out some cash so you can still grind a bit more for it :)


    And it will only get better...

  • darkcloudlink
    darkcloudlink Member Posts: 326
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    I tend to agree, DBD is indeed pay to win. Almost a quarter of all perks in the game are from licensed characters, including some REALLY meta defining perks like Decisive Strike, BBQ and Chili, Lethal Pursuer, etc.

    Without paying money for characters that have a certain desired perk, your only option is to wait every week for the perk you’re looking for to appear on the shrine, and even then, since the shrine is “random” (I’m not even convinced of this. I’m almost certain that certain perks have a higher chance of appearing than others), you’re probably going to want to buy whatever killer or survivor that has your desired perk because waiting for an unknown period of time is not feasible.

    Personally, I hate the shrine. There’s a ton wrong with it. It doesn’t reset often enough, and it definitely feels rigged, especially when they put the perks of characters featured in tomes. BHVR could have instead kept the 4 random perks, and added an additional two perk slots to the shrine to accommodate the tome challenges.

    It’s especially frustrating to see the same perks popping up in the shrine over and over again (Enduring especially). Personally, I have been waiting for Mettle of Man to appear in the shrine since I started playing the game (the week Pyramid Head came out) and that was around the last time Mettle of Man has shown up in the shrine. That’s almost 2 years ago! And that’s even including the daily changing shrines during the 5th anniversary event. That is around 100 shrine resets in total. I refuse to buy Ash because I dislike him and I don’t wanna throw money at things I don’t like, but you’re telling me my only option is to buy him or continue waiting for over 2 years to get a single perk? That’s ridiculous. I know Mettle of Man isn’t a perk that wins games, but any licensed perk is subject to the same shrine rng bull that I’m going through at the moment, and for that reason, I 100% believe that this game is pay to win. No game should have “pay to instantly get this perk or potentially wait over 2 years to get it with in-game currency”

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    DbD can be everything but it is not p2w. Except licensed characters, all content are free (you can buy with shards).

    And even licensed character perks are coming to shrine after while, you can unlock them with shards as well.

  • Cybil
    Cybil Member Posts: 1,164
    edited April 2022
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    It's definitely pay to win.

    The grind involved has set that in stone.

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    It absolutely, undeniably is pay to win, by definition. Some players are only good with paid characters, hence they had to pay in order to win. Literally PtW lol.


    Games like Overwatch give characters to everyone in order to keep an even playing field.


    It's clear that the way DBD wants to make money is by holding the best killers/perks behind a paywall

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    "It's not pay to win...it's just that the best killers (many licensed...coughGhostfacecough) need to be paid for"

    Dude what? You literally say in the same post that there is PtW while saying there isn't.

    Theres also the paid survivors which come with amazing perks. The Jaime Lee Curtis survivor has an anti stalk perk that defends against other PAID killers. What do non paying players get? Nothing.

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    Ghostface is great, but don't forget about all the paid Survivor perks that counter all the paid Killer powers. It's utter BS - for example, the best perk against Mike Meyers is the one that comes in the same paid DLC LMAO.

    There's really no defending this.

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    The "you can earn in game currency" excuse has been played out and frankly I'm surprised so many still fall for it.

    It takes a ridiculously long time to earn shards in a timely manner. This is by design.

    D you think they put a monetary system in here to NOT maximize revenue? You don't think they'd put a system in place to incentivise purchasing shards? Come on, let's not be naive. They're a business, not your friend.

    And "best killer" is subjective. I have an incredibly tough time against ghostface and cannibal. Gee, it would be nice to be able to play as those killers in order to understand them better

    Sorry to burst the facade, but any game that has a monetary system which directly affects gameplay is by definition pay to win.

    Why do you think Overwatch releases new heroes free for everyone? Because they care about the balance and integrity of the competition. They only charge for cosmetics, and even then it's easier to grind for them than in DBD.

    Great game hampered by greedy business practices. Shame.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,617
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    It's clear that the way DBD wants to make money is by holding the best killers/perks behind a paywall

    ntm hag is free on consoles + spirit is free on switch and/or other editions of the game

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,617
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    the best perk in the game against Myers is Spine Chill which is like a free perk lmao please don't tell me you think Sole Survivor is the best perk against him or something

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    Again, "best killer" is subjective and therefore a moot point

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    We can debate the best perk all day, but it doesn't address the main point. You're only on the right side of this if your opinion is that literally every single premium killer and perk is worse than every freely available killer and perk.

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
    edited August 2022
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    If one game character of many in a competitive game is "objectively" the best, then you're also saying this is a completely imbalanced game.

    Which would be interesting since many PtW games are. Which brings back the central issue.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,617
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    Except in P2W games the objectively best character's aren't, you know, free and available the second you boot up the game.

  • Fac_attack
    Fac_attack Member Posts: 24
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    You're also part of the "objectively best" crowd, eh? Just curious as to why you'd freely admit that this game is utterly imbalanced and continue to defend it.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,617
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    You're only on the right side of this if your opinion is that literally every single premium killer and perk is worse than every freely available killer and perk.

    Perk? No. But I've never tried arguing for perks once. That's not the argument I'm putting forward here, and never once have I mentioned them. I'm simply arguing for killers, and I am objectively correct in that The Nurse, a free to play character, is objectively better than every premium, licenced or non-licenced, by any reasonably standard of measurement that applies to DBD.

  • DoritoHead
    DoritoHead Member Posts: 3,546
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    Licensing deals with BHVR require the DLC to be paid-only, so that the owners of the IP can get some of the sales. There’s not really an alternative. BHVR choosing to make paid for content desirable does not make them evil.

    Is the game pay to win? Technically, yes. However I would not say that the devs are any lesser for it.

  • AnneBonny
    AnneBonny Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,252
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    i think as long as the shrine gets an overhaul soon it's fine. my main issue with the game's monetization is the use of microtransactions and the skin prices.

  • SgtMittens
    SgtMittens Member Posts: 249
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    But to make Nurse the most effective requires the purchase of additional characters for their perks. This also doesn't address the concern brought up by OP.

  • kingcarl2012
    kingcarl2012 Member Posts: 1,710
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  • Cassiopeiae
    Cassiopeiae Member Posts: 263
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    Dead by Daylight is Pay to Skip, Pay for Convenience and it is definetly trying to rip off your pockets in a predatory way that hardly seems legal, but it's not pay to win.

    Still, it takes a ridiculous amount of time to unlock what you want without pulling out your wallet, and a lot of things are extremely overpriced.

    Biggest flaw is The Shrine of Secrets. I really don't know who thought it was a good idea to just have 4 perks each week in there. Just let people buy the perks they want/need, if they have the shards for it they've already spent time farming. As it is right now it's just another incentive to force people to pull out the wallet again.

  • Silasy
    Silasy Member Posts: 228
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    Only good licensed killers are Pyramid, Bubba, Demo and Pinhead. Other licensed ones are trash.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 1,823
    edited August 2022
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    When DS and BBQ were meta, they all were behind paywall. The same applies to Ash's perks, for several months. They are intentionally adding OP stuff in licensed DLCs to nerf it a few months after their release. So if anything, this game is at least "periodically" P2W, and quite intentionally so.

  • Rovend
    Rovend Member Posts: 1,043
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    While i dont consider dbd P2W, or at least not a predatory one, it does bother me that some perks that solve core gameplay issues are stuck behind a pay-wall.

    You dont want to be tunneled? Buy Decisive strike

    You dont want to be face-camped on hook? Buy Reassurance

    That just sucks, because it really makes you feel the game is purposelly flawed to force you to buy this perks.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    Except for her killrate which is basically the only statistic they share with us. Lol.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,617
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    That's why I said reasonably measure. Anyone who uses kill rate, and nothing but kill rate, of one specific singular killer gets mocked in these forums for a reason.

  • HugTheHag
    HugTheHag Member Posts: 3,138
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    I don't know about pay to win, but definitely pay to have bandaid fix to a problem that should be adressed through basekit.

  • Gary_Coleman
    Gary_Coleman Member Posts: 732
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    It is pay to win.

  • whammigobambam
    whammigobambam Member Posts: 1,201
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    Maybe not pay to win but definitely grind to win. If you don't have things unlocked to use like items or perks then better get some friends fast.

    And just forget playing killer until you've got some gen regression unlocked.