Hot Take: I don't care if Nurse is why Awakened Awareness was nerfed
I'm going to get A LOT of flack for this one. But honestly, I do not care.
Come on, how many of you were really going to use this perk? I doubt the number is very high. You might try it out but no, I doubt it was going to be a staple that you'll miss.
But let's ignore that. Let's say, this is proof that Nurse is broken... so what're you going to do?
Make her attacks special? So? You're within 20m of a Nurse, you're still gonna die.
Blind her to auras? That's only been done on a single killer, Spirit, and that's only because being blind while phasing is a crucial part of her power. Why just Nurse then? Why not PH and Artist who hit you through walls too (and Artist getting aura reading in her basekit)?
But let's say Nurse is just that gamebreaking. What's the alternative? She can't use chase perks since she chases survivors differently than other killers. If she can't use auras, then info perks won't be that appealing, except maybe giving up a slot for Whispers or something. What about the other three slots? Stacked with regression perks like every other killer while having the most oppressive chase power in the game?
Yeah, now everyone gets to be miserable. She can slow the game to a crawl and kill you fast, and Nurse suffers from Huntress-syndrome where most perks end up being useless on her.
So, rework her then? Be realistic, that'll never happen. At least, not to an extent to dethrone her as the chasing goddess she is, keeping her the best killer in the game. Anything short of a Freddy-level rework will not matter, and considering she's 6 years old, has a dedicated fanbase, and would be extremely taxing on resources, that will not happen.
So, really, I do not care. I long ago accepted Nurse as a beast that we just have to learn to live with. If she causes a few perks to never hit live, so be it. Just the reality of her existence.
Comments
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Hotter take: Nurse players are still going to use the perk. All the nerf did was kill it for just about every other killer.
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Obviously with a view this defeatist you're never going to think that Nurse can be changed in a way that keeps her viable in high MMR play while being healthy for the game.
I'd say a rework could very much be possible. Freddy got a completely new power. Clown had a new mechanic added to his. Doc's was made to be easier to use and more efficient. Adjusting Nurse so her power doesn't limit design space isn't the most difficult thing to concieve.
Firstly making her blinks special attacks would allow the devs to design more perks that grant Exposed status without fearing they will make Nurse too powerful. Starstruck is such an example here, any Nurse with it can dominate the match and create a snowball slugging effect quickly while on other killers it is nowhere near as effective (although still decent). If her blinks were special attacks then Nurses get no value from Starstruck and this would make it a dead perk on her but she already has plenty. Or if we were to make a compromise only the first blink counts as a normal hit and the chain blinks count as special. That would keep it viable but not blindly overpowered (but would have to see this in practice).
Secondly I think Awakened Awareness on Nurse on it's own is fine. Aura perks on Nurse are strong because of her quickly she can traverse the map to reach those auras before the survivors have the chance to hide or make distance. But this in of itself isn't overpowered. It's only in combination with insta-down perks that they become much more lethal. And there are counters to AA too. Distortion is a very viable counterperk to aura builds and not one that you as a survivor feel punished for running like some of the other non-meta perks. And once you know the Nurse has AA you know to keep out of her way when she has someone on her shoulder. Simple as that.
I may be underestimating the work that's needed here to 'fix' Nurse but special attack blinks would be a simple and more than welcomed first step that the Nurse community wouldn't feel is unjust or unfair. Nurse is still the best killer in the game bar none without access to insta-down abilities. It may not resolve the core issue of her gameplay concerning game balance and design space but it would be a start and a step in the right direction. Being defeatist and telling people to just accept such a glaring issue that will only get worse overtime and dismissing potential changes isn't the right thing to do here. If you enjoy DBD and are passionate about seeing the game grow and develop further you should advocate change not shoot it down as 'extremely taxing on resources'. Unless you are on the development team yourself I don't know how you would know that.
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How is removing the 2 secs after unhook kill it for all other Killers....that 2 secs wasn't really enough time to even fully look around.
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Okay, so let me explain what I meant.
First off, no, they're not doing a Freddy-level rework. A Freddy rework is creating an entirely new killer, which not only alienates the current killer's fanbase, it's extremely difficult when also trying to squeeze in the other actual new killers. When asked, I was never given a "never" answer, but it is unlikely.
Clown and Doc's powers remained mostly the same. Clown just gained a new bottle type, and Doc's rework was mostly just a lot of simplifying a very complex power.
A better comparison would be Legion. Besides Freddy, Legion has probably changed the most out of any killer considering Legion now and Release Legion are functionally different killers despite the power still being a simple "run fast and stab people" loop. But, fixing Legion to be fair meant making their power mostly non-lethal, and their 2nd rework was more polishing after their 1st one. There was a clear route you could go with Legion and make them better.
Nurse is... ######### do you do? Her power literally lets her go through walls. If her attacks are special, cool. Now there's no more exposed Nurse. But uh... she's still bottlenecking aura perks, which Awakened Awareness is, which means the problem still exists. Aura perks are more or less free hits as Nurse. So honestly, I don't feel that Special Attacks alone would solve much.
Not to mention, when I've asked about it, I get told how it'd be re-opening an old can of worms of "what's a basic and what's a special" attack argument since Nurse's lunge is almost completely identical to a basic attack, then there are OTHER killers such as T3 Myers with an extended lunge or Slinger's whose reel into M1 deep wounds you despite being basic. Then there's the nuance of her being able to grab people identical to an M1 grab (which cannot be removed as it's tied to achievements) and thus being subject to the Grab-M1 cancel.
Am I a defeatist? Yeah, probably. But honestly, I do not see a solution that makes anyone happy.
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I am not going to lie... I more or less agree with you. I was never going to use that perk. I do not care about that perk. It, like 90% of perks in the game, is basically unusable. I am used to it.
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The devs have to do something. They can't keep being held back from making good perks just because Nurse exists, but they also can't nerf her in a big way or we'll be left with 1 viable killer instead of 2. They need to make her blink attacks special attacks or something. It's probably better to not rework her like Freddy, because the devs take forever to do stuff like that and use it an excuse not to focus on anything else that needs addressing/updating.
Or, after some deliberation, maybe the devs should just allow certain perks to be strong on certain killers. But that has to be the consistent standard or it won't work. I hate going against Starstruck Nurse, even though it's rare for me, but I just gotta get over it and deal with it. I expect people to deal with Stridor Spirit, so I might as well stick to that mentality. The devs should never have nerfed Deathslinger's terror radius just because it could be combo'd with M&A. That was the dumbest. It and the Iron Will trumping Stridor thing are the best examples of the devs saying no to the idea of killers specializing in using certain perks. "Don't make smart builds!" As opposed to what? Running 4 gen defence perks every time? That's the result they're creating by taking away these perk-killer interactions. These are niche perks. Let them be good on certain killers. It will be fine.
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Thank you for explaining what you mean a bit further. I agree it is a complex problem and that you do raise good points. I'm wondering if there is a way for Nurse's power to remain as is conceptually while being 'balanced' when you put her alongside the rest of the killer roster. She sticks out like a sore thumb at the moment but her power is one of the most unique ones in the game. Retaining it in some way would be a big plus and keep the Nurse players somewhat happy.
Maybe her blinks have to be earned in some way and as a trade off she can be given normal movement speed? That's probably ridiculous so feel free to shoot that down (I'm about as lethal with Nurse as a blind bat with no wings).
There's got to be a rework that can be made, somewhere imbetween the scale of Freddy and Legion that keeps the majority of the playerbase happy and solves her core issues. I'm sure there is. But like you I'm drawing blanks. I just know that removing Exposed Nurse is a good starting point. It is by no means the solution to her as a whole. And with perserverance I'm sure a solution or compromise can be found. If we accept the Nurse problem as is then nothing will ever get changed with her. We pushed with the range addons not 'working as intended' and finally they're reverting them to their actual addon description. That's awesome. But we wouldn't have gotten that change if we weren't vocal enough about it to the point BHVR felt they had to change their stance on those addons.
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Nerfing killers because certain perks are strong on them hurts me so much. Deathslinger's ADS change was fine, I adapted to it just fine. However, he's crippled by his 32m Terror Radius. You have to stack stealth perks on him just to keep people from holding W against you every time you get anywhere near them.
Just rework the problematic perk, like how Stridor was changed so it couldn't counter old Iron Will for Spirit (the only user of Stridor). If M&A gave you a percentage reduction and increase of TR, it would be less effective on killers with small TRs like Slinger, but unchanged for everyone else.
Please just give me back those 8 meters BHVR 😥
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Just to add to this, I saw another really good change Nurse could get in another thread just now. When she's charging her blink she's unable to see auras like eg: Spirit. Keeps aura perks viable but makes it so precise blinking on top of survivors now requires some intuition and guess work instead of being able to aim perfectly at where they are while they're running.
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Awakened Awareness probably wouldn’t have been Meta, but it would have been popular & been great for a lot of aura reading builds. I think it’ll still get some burn, but this nerf does hurt it a little.
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The perks aren't problematic just because they're effective on 1 or 2 killers. That's what I'm trying to say. If it becomes a staple perk on a killer, so be it. You don't see people saying nerf Iron Maiden on Huntress or Corrupt on Trapper just because it helps them, but they want to nerf other stuff because the killers that use them are actually strong. Why would a killer not run 4 gen defence perks every time when all their alternatives, these niche perks that actually work for their specific killer, keep getting nerfed? That's what the "nerf this killer perk" crowd, including the devs, have been missing.
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Actually very good take.
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I've yet to use any other Aura reading Perks aside from Lethal Pursuer. Leprose Lichen is just too good
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Im planning to add it to my mad grit agitation builds so it is a bit sad to be nerfed but the nerf doesnt feel huge to me.
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The fact that the aura reading extension also applies to add-ons makes it a pretty useful perk.
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Sure but she's not the only killer this applies to. Are we also going to blind Huntress to auras while she's winding up a hatchet? That also results in "free" hits if the player has decent aim. I played a bunch of Huntress last night and got hit after hit with Lethal Pursuer and Floods of Rage. What's the consistent standard we're applying?
Further, if you limit utility of aura perks on her then people are just going to swap in slowdown perks, which I would argue are less fun for everyone in the match.
FWIW I'm totally fine with her blinks being special attacks. Definitely chain blinks, and maybe also the first blink. I was honestly a bit surprised when I was learning her and discovered that they're basic attacks.
Honestly, Nurse really isn't the problem. It has always been matchmaking putting good nurses with survivors who don't know how to counter her, as well as bad map design (Midwich). Per-killer MMR should practically guarantee that good nurses only go against very strong survivors, but all of the goofy stuff they do with matchmaking to prioritize speed over accuracy causes these blowouts.
The fix for Nurse should be that MMR strictly prefers accuracy over speed when someone queues as Nurse, and the soft MMR cap should be raised or removed for her only.
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Why just Huntress? PH can hit through walls too. Artist can crossmap you, also through walls.
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Yep, the same logic applies to any of them.
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I get you but at the same time I don't think they're that easily comparable. Huntresses can't throw hatchets through walls and survivors can hear the hatchet being readied, giving them a chance to duck or find cover. PH has to be close to the survivor to actually hit them and takes much longer to close the distance between them than Nurse does. Artist can't fire lethal birds across the map unless you're already birded and there is a delay before the birds reach you across long distances. Nurse does not have any of these drawbacks. If you know where the survivor is via aura you can blink straight to them regardless of LoS and effectively guarantee a hit. That's why I thought the change to the aura reading was a good idea because it makes it so auras can still be good information for Nurse but doesn't make them 'free hits'. And with it being a Nurse specific change it doesn't gut the aura reading perks on other killers like as you say Huntress.
I don't play Nurse but I think she'd still be strong if that was to go ahead.
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Honestly I don’t get why people are flipping out over Awakened Awareness not showing the aura after the carry, it’s still a perk I’m planning to use because frankly seeing auras of nearby survivors during a carry is a good effect. 🙂 Even outside of a Backpack build, it immediately tells you if there is a survivor nearby to chase after the carry, if someone might be going for a bodyblock or sabo, and if you see no auras tells you that you’ll want to go farther away for the next chase. It’s like the benefits of Infectious Fright but the survivors don’t know you are using it because they don’t scream and you see their exact location the whole time.
Seriously, combine this perk with BBQ and Chili and every time you carry and hook someone you can immediately know where all the survivors are on the map. It’s a crazy amount of info. The only downside is if Distortion catches on then it will be less useful. (Off the Record hides auras too but it’s a little less flexible than Distortion so not quite as big a problem probably.)
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I’m sure the devs are held back from making good survivor perks because of SWFs with voice communication. Should we nerf that too?
Reassurance would have been fine for solo q, because one person couldn’t keep it going non stop, which meant the hooked person could have let go on hook in the 10 seconds the perk wasn’t active. It was only broken for SWFs with voice communication, because they could coordinate the perk going non stop, and could have prevented the survivor from letting go on hook.
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Rework on nurse is pretty simple.
Make her attack special attacks, add more coldown on blink. Make her movement speed 4.2 m/s. PROBLEM SOLVED
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the hottest take: these 4 seconds (with lethal) after stopping carrying survivor did absolutely nothing for all killers except Nurse, because the main purpose of the perk is to serve as either backpack build improvement or a better hangman's trick that is supposed to help you avoid bodyblocking and sabo. Neither of these things were affected by the nerf and the perk is still very viable in its niche, so it's nerf was just to remove an obvious loophole in it.
The entire outrage about the nerf is just a knee jerk reaction multiplied by a hate boner for nurse.
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Probably! It's only the most complained about thing from the killer pov. There's too much evidence to say, "The gap between solo and SWF is fine. Stop blaming everything on SWF." There probably have been perks that weren't created because of SWF, but then again we got Boil Over, Breakout, Breakdown, Soul Guard, For The People, Mettle Of Man, Prove Thyself, etc which are perfect for SWF and oddball for solo. Maybe we can't do much about that because you can only do so much to stop people from running perks (ahem unless it's killer, then you get all your useful perks nerfed), but we can stop SWF's stupid efficiency. Give them a gen speed debuff. "But why am I penalized for playing with friends?" You're either "just playing with friends" or you've put together a team that's trying to win. There's no in-between. Why do killers have to suffer from stupid levels of efficiency from SWF to where they can't win, just because you want to play with friends? I use the word lightly, but it's selfish.
I agree that Reassurance would have been fine for solo. I was actually okay with it hitting live as it was, and didn't give in to the absolute hysteria that "Every 3-man SWF is gonna bully with it! They're gonna take the random hostage!" Is that technically possible? Yes. Would it happen a lot? No. Why would it? Who has the time or energy to go and be like, "You know what? Let's ruin some random's day" or "Let's force ourselves into a 3v1." Unless the killer is also part of the charade somehow, they're either gonna see what the SWF is doing and kill them for that random's sake, or they're gonna beat the remaining survivors anyway because of it being a 3v1. It's just funny to me that the big reason why this perk was changed was "A survivor would be stopped from being sacrificed against their will." So we're balancing around rage quitting, which the devs are fine with even though they put in a DC penalty? They have always, always flip-flopped on their position on DCs, I swear to god, ever since they put the DC penalty in.
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Only really balance change for Nurse is reworking her just like what they did with Freddy. Im not a fan of changing a killers whole power but thats the only way to making her healthy.
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