Sadako is weak. What can we do with this problem?
Hello everyone. If you clicked on this post, you know that Sadako is at best C tier without the best add-ons, and you have some ideas on how to improve Sadako, and... I have them too. I will write them in this post, and after reading this post you will write your ideas, okay?
First, Sadako has a "flickering" after demanifest, where she is completely invisible and fully manifests. The developers should increase the time when Onryo is completely invisible during flickering after demanifest, from 0.75 seconds to 1.25 seconds which will allow cheating in some pallets and generally improve the ability to chase.
We also need to improve condemn: after falling to the ground and / or hooking (at the discretion of the developers), the survivor receives 1 condemn out of 7, which motivates Sadako to continue the chase in most cases, rather than use boring hit & run.
And most importantly - reduce the recharge of TVs after Onryo leaves them at least to 45 seconds (now 100). 45 seconds is 1/2 of generator, so you can teleport at least 2 times, which will force the survivors to repair the generators with tapes. In exchange, you can extend the recharge of TVs after the survivor took the tape from the TV to 70 seconds (now 60). Taking into account that condemned will accumulate faster, it is better to cut the red cassette and cabin sing. And it would be great to remake some addons!
Other ideas, please, write in the comments!
Comments
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Here's what I would do:
- Make her Condemnation an actual threat. There should be more ways for survivors to gain condemned stacks. Maybe survivors get Exposed and slower when fully Condemned?
- Buff her "Demanifest" form. Make her do actions faster or something, like vaulting and breaking? It'll make her somewhat better in chases.
- Make it take longer to put tapes into the TVs, because there's literally nothing Sadako can do about that.
- Instead of getting a speed boost when you come out from a TV, give her a speed boost when she manifests, similar to Wraith. Maybe make her manifest charge time a bit longer to compensate?
That's all I can think of, for now at least.
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Really good ideas. I think, we can give "Exposed" status to the survivor, who accumulated condemn to the maximum too
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buff condemned
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So basically you wanna turn her into Wraith 2.0 when demanifested?
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Sadako isn’t top tier but I don’t think she needs more than a slight buff. The one I’d push for is removing her Lullaby, I’m not sure why they made her the only Stealth killer that has a Lullaby. Get rid of that and her Stealth improves which goes a ways toward shortening her time between hits.
The other change might be that once you are Condemned your timer builds up automatically regardless of whether or not you have a tape. Right now there’s not much incentive to carry a tape at all, a lot of survivors just ignore the tapes unless they happen to have built up a lot of stacks already. If the Condemned built up slowly over time though they would be compelled to periodically use the tape or risk getting to full.
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i like Wraith btw, he is strong at pallets between stones
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While true, i just rather wanna see demanifested be buffed without making it too similar to other killer's powers is all.
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i got 2 ideas for sadako buffs
the one i like more is mainly based on condemned
getting manifest-hit (the spectral strike score event) causes passive build up of 1 condemned stack (so it works like holding a tape, but only for 1 stack). this would make sadako a pretty good hit n run type character, and add a reason to take and return tapes (since there is literally 0 reason rn)
next id make being max condemned make you exposed
and then id make it so tvs arent off for 17 years when she teleports, and increase the time that tvs remain off when turned off by survivors. this will make it seem more appealing to take and return tapes, since youll actually be doing something beneficial on top of removing stacks from the insta mori
maybe this would make her "op" but she is an m1, theres only so much she can do even with the ability to rancor a survivor in midgame.
the other way id go with buffing her is making her better in chase, and better with stealth
so instead of condemned buffs, itd remain mostly the same, but her passive phase last longer (so she is invisible longer)
making her a 4.8 while demanifested, or give her a small haste after manifesting to make that passive phase after manifesting less useless, or both
removing her lullaby completely, making her manifest sound a bit quieter, removing the extremely loud and directional teleport noises, making her speed boost after teleporting last like twice as long, and have her tvs turn on like 10-20 seconds faster
not having the bubble around survivors from the start of the match (only having the bubble there once you gain a condemned stack)
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I am agree with you, especially with the first variant, but I think, we need to realise the second variant too. There are so many sounds when you play as a survivor against Onryo.
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Largely there's not enough reason to take a tape. Sadako's tv cooldown is longer than taking a tape so often it's just better to let her teleport. The only time you really need to take tapes is if Sadako is running Iri Videotape, because that addon is really nuts with how it can basically keep all her tvs active the entire time unless survivor take tapes.
If you improve her teleport cd at base, she can teleport more often thus apply condemn more often and survivors will start to have a real need to grab tapes.
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And we should to nerf red tap and ring drawing. I'm watching OnePumpWillie, he mains Sadako, and he has already done 80+ winstreak with many mori's and, and he ALWAYS uses red tape and ring drawing, and I understand him. You cant play very well without these addons. By the way, i will give a link where he won some tournament. Here is it: https://youtu.be/ugPWMMbYg70 THIS PARTY WERE NOT READY 100%
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Yes, red addon is really nuts, like Sadako's true strength
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The buffs sound reasonable (all of them). I would even go for larger cd reduction after using tv (make it 50-60s cd after using tv). But i think it would make sense to create 2 tv's where you can return tape (so killer can't camp tv for guaranteed mori) and maybe not make condemed survivor exposed. Otherwise I like this proposition "on paper".
But it's possible it would make her too strong - which can be adjusted later. For now it seems ok
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I would choose a few (2-3?) of the following:
Make Bloody Fingernails and/or Newspaper basekit
Remove Lullaby (this one feels necessary)
Reduce TV cooldown by at least 40% (also feels pretty necessary; 100 secs is a long time)
Make TP sound omnidirectional
Decrease manifesting time, or increase movement speed while manifsted.
Increase condemnation rate; add some impetus to take tapes. Currently like Pigs hats, but almost never activate and won't instantly kill you. So useless.
Have taking/carrying tapes inflict the exposed status (associating some risk with turning off TVs)
I think this nerf will happen. That build/strat all but demands slugging, which suuuucks.
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One thing I've noticed as Sadako is the cooldown isn't as bad as it sounds on paper. It's not "100 seconds between teleports", it's 100 seconds between when you can teleport to a specific TV again. But in practice you don't actually need to teleport back to the same exact TV all that quickly since typically if you teleport to a TV if there's someone there you get in a chase, and if there isn't you go somewhere else. Basically it's kind of rare you need to teleport back to a particular TV right after you start a chase from it, so most of that 100 seconds is going to be spent elsewhere anyway.
That's not to say that speeding up her TV refresh doesn't help her, it does. But I don't think it's as huge an issue as some people make it out to be. I wouldn't turn my nose up at speeding up her TV cooldown, of course, but honestly I seem to be more impacted by the Lullaby interfering with Stealth than the TV refresh.
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Id say make some adjustments to condemned;
Make it more of a pressing matter to manage by reducing the benefit of using tapes
Remove the instant condemned gain from picking up a tape but increase the passive gain to make the action more dangerous with high stacks
Require tapes be placed in a deactivated TV to aid map mobility in exchange for the full effect, active TVs would still turn off but offer less condemned reduction
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Has a nice ring to it. xd
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Very easy. Make everyone start with 1 condemn and make addon that builds it when healing base kit.
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TV refresh REALLY will help Sadako. With this change I can teleport to the same gen 2 times in the worst case, and 3 times in the usual case, or even, even 4 TIMES (I have taken all cases into account WITH the start of chasing the survivor) so the survivor will need a tape. With 100 sec. cooldown in the best case I can do 2 teleports in most cases with no risk to be genrushed.
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But again if you’re midchase why teleport out of chase to a TV you’ve already just chased someone away from? Even if your goal is building up stacks they’ve left that TV for the short term most of the time so the TV you want to teleport to next would be a different one. And if you’re teleporting out of chase you’re giving up on getting a hit or down or pallet drop, etc.
Mind you, I understand what you’re saying, I just think it’s not as important as the other buffs people suggest.
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I would Decrease the Cooldown on TV's -cause it would add more interaction (IMO) to Sadako's kit-
Increase the Condemnation rates -cause it would mean Condemnation is more threatening-
Make more ways to get Condemned (Being near Sadako as she Manifests and Demanifests or being near a TV that's on) -also to add more interaction-
Remove the lullaby... maybe (the more I think about it the more I don't like that idea)
Decrease the number of stacks removed when putting a tape into a TV (from all to 3 max) -that way there's more give and take-
I don't have a lot of experience playing Sadako so take what I say with a grain of salt
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I'd just make her basic attacks add 1 condemn stack and see how it plays out. I think sadako is somewhat under-rated with add-on against soloq. I think I'll use a famous quote, they aren't seeing her hidden potential.
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Her biggest problem atm is that TV's simply aren't good enough.
How did they think giving her a 100 second cooldown on a tv after use was a good idea? It almost feels like freddy has more map presence than her once a few tv's are on cooldown.
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I was shocked when I realized this. 100 SEC COOLDOWN?! It is really bad
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Good comment, but I think it is very high hit & run pressure, a team without med kit and/or boon can't counter this. And hit&run (or teleport) gameplay is a little boring to everyone in the match. Instead of we can lower TV's cooldown and give 1 condemn when the survivor fell.
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I can just manifest/demanifest near survivors
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Maybe. But you cannot give condemn to a survivor without TV's. Lower TV's cooldown = more condemned and map pressure = the survivors will be more condemned and and in the end they'll need a tape if they don't want to be moried.
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At least swap cd's. 100s when survivor turn it off (so codemn does build up) and 60s after ability usage so she has more presence and additional reason to take tapes...
Maybe even make them 90/50s
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why wouldn't the survivors be able to counter it? She has lullaby of 24 meters and TV have directional audio cue when a tv is used. her gameplay is based off hit & run. Her condemn build up is a bit too slow in general and could use a little bit of an improvement. hit & run is not boring. it is unique gameplay that is seldom utilized by killer-players.
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I agree that more teleporting means more stacks which leads to extra Condemned pressure. But if the main weakness is actually that Condemned doesn't build up enough a more direct way to buff that up is to apply passive buildup to all survivors over time similar to how the video tape works. You could have survivors without a video tape build up at one rate and survivors with a video tape build up more quickly than that for example. There wouldn't even be a need to tinker with the TV refresh in that case.
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I don't like the idea of the killer getting rewarded by mori's for doing nothing. The condemn passive build up on the tapes is designed so that you cannot hog the tape for the entire match. Its suppose to be urgency to go to a TV when picking up a tape. its there to prevent survivors per-emptively picking up a tape and walking around the entire match with the tape. Your not suppose to be able to pick up a tape, do full gen, unhook people, heal people and then drop the tape off at your convenience. Picking up a tape is suppose to be a high-pressure situation where your trying to get a tv before you get mori by sadako. Its just these high pressure situations are rarely occuring in her base-kit thus there is no need to interact with her TV's currently.
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Sure. But we need to buff speed of codemn so, that survivors will interact with the tapes (also prevent killers from being able to camp your only tv). One of the solutions to that one is mine with messing with tv cooldowns. Other one was with (slow?) passive buildup. There might be other better solution to it though.
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Sadako wouldn't be rewarded with a kill for "doing nothing". Unless she's actually chasing and pressuring survivors they can easily deal with a slow build up of Condemned well before it reaches critical mass.
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Sadako wouldn't be rewarded with a kill for "doing nothing"
what I mean to say is that my win condition with sadako is being completed automatically without any input from the player using sadako. active build-up is more engaging then passive guaranteed build-up. I think that's largely why you sometimes get posts in regards to Tombstone piece Myer's and pig head-pop because it doesn't feel like you earn a mori. It feels more like mori itself is automatic passive ability. I like her mori system because it requires the most input out of the killer player to get it to activate despite it not being too effective overall.
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Sure, and that's why I said it would presumably be something where passive build up is slower than holding a tape and also slower than gaining a full stack from a teleport. Sadako would be rewarded to actively engaging with the survivors both in keeping them from removing stacks and by adding stacks from teleporting near them compared to passively doing neither.
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Sadako would be rewarded to actively engaging with the survivors both in keeping them from removing stacks and by adding stacks from teleporting near them compared to passively doing neither.
that is sort of my point in both posts. You don't need to interact with the survivor with passive condemn. It works regardless whether you interact with the survivor or not. A close comparison is freddy dream world. You will enter dream world regardless if you do not see freddy for the entire game or get chased the entire game by him, thus my point that you will get rewarded with mori's without doing anything.
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Right, but like with Freddy he gets rewarded more for actually hitting survivors rather than waiting passively for them to go to sleep.
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- Decrease her TV cooldown from teleporting from 100 seconds to 60 seconds, make her Well-Water add-on base kit, make fully condemned survivors exposed, increase the time to retrieve/insert a tape, make survivors who witness a teleport within 16 meters gain 2 stacks of condemned, and remove her lullaby.
Poor girl needs some love.
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Pick 1 MAYBE 2 of those and I agree. Do all of them and she is broken and needs compensation nerfs
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I see a lot of excitement. I hope, the developers will change Sadako soon.
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Proposal:
Nerf: 110% movement speed
Buff: when you remove the condemnation it is passed to the other survivor with more condemnation.
Tell me
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Wait, what? I haven't understood nerf
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The nerf is because now she is 115%. Passing from 115% to 110% of movement speed is a nerf.
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Copied from my nerf all S-tier buff all D-tier post, but relevant here
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The tape mechanic is either entirely ignored or abused similar to the old AFK pig style. Hopefully with these changes her basekit will be effectively increased without resorting to abusing fringe cases to be remotely effective.
First, I would have condemned progress at half the rate of active tapes when within range of an active TV and not in chase. This doesn’t stack if you are in overlapping fields, or are holding a tape. The Videotape Copy add-on now removes this passive condemned instead of TP condemned. Secondly, like the AFK pig change, the 2 furthest TVs are selected as tape return locations instead of only one. I think this might be enough, but if she needs more love then perhaps give survivors debuffs at levels of condemnation. I would have a simple hindered condition with 1 or 2% per condemnation level, except when fully condemned. I would then buff the iri Remote Control add-on to keep this hindered when fully condemned. For reference Clown bottles and Dream Snares are 15%, so the max possible slow would be 12%, or 14% with the iri add-on.
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To update my thoughts since playing against Wesker's semi-permanent 8% Hindered, I'd say the 1% would be worth testing. The 2% per level would likely be far too oppressive.
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Ok, I understand now
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maybe in upcoming mid-chapter. A new Q&A would be nice. The last one was a long time ago. We could ask then, on which killers the devs are intended to take a look. Last info was The Twins will receive a look after Ghostface/Legion-Addon-Passes.
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