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Why was Blast Mine nerfed?
So now if you use it and the killer never kicks the gen. You have to regain the entire perk over again instead of just being able to place it on a new gen or something.
Why?
This isn't a popular perk to begin with. I was only ever using it to help me gain blinds during archive challenges because I am trash at using the flashlight to do it.
When I plant a mine maybe one out of 5 or 6 times the killer will actually kick it? There had been times where I was literally forced to just BAIT the killer do it by letting myself get downed right on top of the gen and even in that case they sometimes won't kick the gen.
I sense there is something I am not thinking of here though. Is it somehow because of Wiretap? What is it?
Comments
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The order of the tinfoil hats believe wiretap put out the hit.
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They mentioned a while back that The Twins was the next killer getting looked at. Might finally be her turn
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Logically speaking. It would make sense. This completely not OP perk gets nerfed in the same patch a similar perk gets released. I don't see the conflict off hand but its the only theory that seems to make sense.
uhm....wut
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your question is the same as mine, don't worry
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I was wondering the same thing and they hid it at the bottom of the notes 2.. smh
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Every killer perk that activates, has no effect, and deactivates has the same cooldown or activation requirements as it did initially. Why should survivor perks be able to get refunded until you get a use out of it?
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Because it makes the perk pointless?
As of now you're about as likely to not get one use out of it as you are to get 1 use out of it.
After this patch 90% of the time you won't get any use out of this perk.
Whats it do exactly? Oh yeah stuns a killer for a couple of seconds big deal.
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And yet there are many, MANY people who complain about Call of Brine or Overcharge. And Blast Mine is specifically there to punish killers who insist on a kick before chase to get the regression rolling.
But, for some reason, it's fine to complain about killers running all regression perks, but totally unreasonable to actually run the survivor perks that punish killers for running regression.
Weird how that works!
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I would normally agree with you but it's a 4s stun it's not a very game changing perk like unbreakable.
If anything there are other perks that desireve this treatment not blast mine
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IDK what you're even talking about over here. What do those 2 perks have to do with anything?
COB is active for 60 seconds. It always comes into play since the gen will either be regressed heavily or you will know someone is working on it.
Same thing with Overcharge especially if paired with COB. Assuming an actual 60 seconds went by without interuption. You got a MASSIVE benefit from it.
How is that comparable? You will get use out of those 2 perks every single time you use them. Blast Mine you were lucky to get use out of 30% of the time. Now it is another scrap pile perk that you will never get use out of.
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regression perks can get value from them no matter what, even if it is only a small amount (survivors succeeding at overcharge or finding ruin for example). with blast mine not only was it a slight delay before you could put regression on a generator, or cut off a part of its progress (pop goes), or make a survivor one hit with it (dragons grip), but you could SEE IT on the generator. it is physically on the top of the generator so the killer knows you are running blast mine and to not stomp it for what, 10-15 seconds? with killer regression perks, survivors dont know you have it until you got value from it. the only thing survivors had to deal with that is now one of the weakest perks.
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I feel like you just want to yell survivors bad without addressing the actual point and found a random thread to do so.
So, because random people complain about Overcharge/Call of Brine/Eruption/etc, Blast Mine deserves its nerf? Or you just specifically don't care it got nerfed because those people complained? Or is that unrelated?
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I second that. The best fix to avoid conflict, IMO, would've been to make Blast Mine auto-activate when you leave the gen and, if it doesn't blow, retain the progression like before.
Bam, fixed the possible conflict between the two perks.
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A 4s stun is more of a head start than you get from Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, or even Decisive Strike. If you arm the gen, take off, and they kick it, boom: you've completely escaped. The killer will NEVER catch back up to you, and in all liklihood, won't even be able to find you. And the onerous task you have to complete to active the power?
Doing gens.
So you get it by doing the very thing you're supposed to be doing in the first place. What a terrible burden this nerf must be.
Let me try to be overabundantly clear:
- People complain about gen regression perks.
- Overcharge and Call of Brine are two such perks.
- Both OC and CoB require the killer to kick a gen.
- Survivors have Blast Mine, a perk that punishes killers for kicking gens.
Ergo: Blast Mine is a perk you use to punish killers who rely on kicking gens by letting you get away 100% of the time if they bother to kick the gen.
I'm not COMPARING them. I'm telling you that if people find Gen Regression so onerous, they can run perks that screw over the killer for relying on it. And if your mine doesn't get triggered, then the killer didn't kick your gen, which means: no regression.
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I bet it was FoR cOnSiStEnCy with Wiretap. Yeah, Blast Mine was already more of a mediocre "fun" perk that not many people used, and it's trash now, since what was actually reliable and neat about it was the aura reveal of the gen for other survivors, which if you use that now, will take your perk away.
Wiretap didn't need this limitation to begin with, it's barely worth using without it either. Especially since they didn't go for cOnSiStEnCy with Open-Handed on this. I bet they'll sooner make OH not apply to Kindred as well.
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I guess BHVR just does not like survivors. All survivors perks are keep nerfing to ground.
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What survivors can see and what killers can see are quite different, my friend. Killers CANNOT see Blast Mines on gens. They can't see the aura, they can't see the device on top of the model. It is 100% hidden from them.
Did you know that survivors can see the red beam of "this area is about to get hit" that Pyramid Head's power projects, but Pyramid Head himself cannot see it? It's true! There's a ton of fun things like that that you can learn by actually playing both sides.
Blast Mine deserves its nerf because EVERY perk that has a timer associated with it should just expire if it doesn't get used. Survivor perks and killer perks alike. Complaining that your toy doesn't get special treatment is not especially compelling, considering that it still does exactly what it was supposed to do: punish the killer for stopping to kick gens by stunning them and giving you a 100% assured escape every time, plus wasting even more of their time by making them have to kick the thing all over again. EDIT: Oh yeah, it ALSO overrides Lightborn and goes through Enduring, on top of everything else.
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They made something new that conflicts with it and we just get to deal with it now bordering on useless.
I can't really use my favorite build anymore. I came up with it to be a distraction while still working objectives because the person I play with gets motion sick I like to draw some attention early. Get the attention early and go on a couple fun runs and the killer mostly ignores when he botches a gen skill check. He runs away sooner so I can take a hit and be hard to resist following because I wasted their time a bit before.
When that didn't work I at least sometimes got to chuckle as I'm not being saved when the gen got kicked.
Thanks so much bhvr. Now you've got one person who worked for the group who doesn't want to bother most of the time without their buddy(who refuses to communicate or take advice despite 1200 hours more playtime) who wont be able to play as much. a rube and a team player who'd die for the rube are playing less now.
The killer couldn't see the flashbang on top, only the survivors can.
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I second this. Their point is also bad. ALL PERKS MUST HAVE TIMER. Even if effect is extremely minor. That's just bad logic.
Also, you're more likely to get use out of Decisive Strike than Blast Mine now. In what world does that make sense? This change treats Blast Mine like tis this SUPER strong perk or something when its not. Thats the whole point and its a really simple one.
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Blast Mine doesn't override Lightborn OR Enduring.
If you have Lightborn, you don't get blinded from Blast Mine. In fact, you can see the aura of who set the Blast Mine for like 5 seconds after the stun. And Enduring specifically says Reduces PALLET stun duration by 40/45/50% so it has nothing to do with Blast Mine.
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TBH people just generally tend to be ignorant to how buffs/nerfs to themselves affect their opponents, and even vice versa. It doesn't matter if the long term consequences end up worse than the short term result, they want the short term result to always be universally better for them personally. You can argue about how stifling killer strategies promotes the lowest common denominator of camping and tunneling all day but some people are either unwilling or incapable of understanding it. Thats not even necessarily the worst thing, but it impacts the weight of their feedback and suggestions quite a bit without them realizing. Honestly probably half the reason that forum is a damn ghost town that doesn't even get "BHVR Read" on full pages of threads.
I completely agree with you that the perk can have DS tier momentum shifts if done at the right times, and that it can punish killers very hard for willingly giving up hook pressure to try to switch over to gen pressure. Some people forget that half of DS' power was forcing killers to make a read on whether you still had it, or even had it at all. The hesitation and risk potential can do just as much as the active effect with perks like that.
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Because the value you get from those perks isn’t controlled by the other side.
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A large number of killer perks have direct counterplay that can completely nullify them. BBQ alone has half a dozen ways to actively deny it, which is part of why it lost so much of its value when the BP got removed. Hex perks can be deleted before the killer can even run to them in a straight line if spawns are bad enough, there's nothing preventing them from being disabled by the other side before they gain any value.
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Basically devs have a hat and they pick a perk from it completely randomly with no motive and change it in the worst way possible, last time it was MoM and now it's blast mine, an innocent and fun perk barely anyone used that didn't need changing at all. Survivors can't have anything nice since the last major unbalancing update.
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I think i made a post on this awhile ago, but basically It was about dragons grip not being able to have that feature, if no one touches the gen the perk goes back to a 80 second cooldown and I was comparing why blastmine was able to get refunded so I guess that was eventually answered
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There's no real reason, they just nerfed it just for the sake of nerfing it. Like they do with every decent and fun survivor perk.
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Killer perks can be countered, yes. However, their value is dependent on the actions of the killer. To get BBQ value, you need to get hooks. To get Devour Value, you need to meet the conditions to get tokens.
To get Blast Mine value, you have to hope that the killer will decide to kick the gen. You don’t have a say in if the perk itself activates.
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Except MoM was reverted so it's not nerfed anymore. And four other survivor perks got buffed from the PTR.
Meanwhile, every killer perk nerf in the last 6+ months are still there, AND two that WERE buffed got a retroactive nerf.
Super fun to just look at your side instead of both, huh?
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The game is now undeniably killer sided which is why solo queue escapes are at a rate of <20% of matches from what i've heard for most people, killer queues are insane as not as many people want to play survivor and after ALL of those killer buffs how can you actually say there are "two sides"? No. Survivors got nerfed, killers didn't. They got their entire base kit buffed.
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To be fair I don't notice that much of a difference between blast mine then and now. Most games I'd never get the chance to use it because either the killer wouldn't kick my gen or I was too busy getting chased and doing other things to actually find time for it. I get the nerf was kinda annoying but changes very little for me personally since it was just one of those that you might get use out of once in a match.
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You don't have to hook 3 people in order to get BBQ to proc, only for someone to hide in a locker and deny it.
That's basically what Blastmine is now. Do two thirds of an entire gen so you can maybe stun a killer for 2-3 seconds if he decides to kick the gen instead of look for the person who's hiding around there, otherwise you need to do another 2-3rds for another chance.
I don't know why they didn't bring the gen progress requirement down. Blast Mine was never strong, just annoying.
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That is an extremely pidgeonholed comparison. Using your own logic, the killer can't use BBQ unless a survivor messes up enough to get downed and hooked. Not only are they both common occurrences in normal play, if killers are kicking gens then they are not facecamping a hook which is something you shouldn't exactly want to discourage with game design. If killers got flashbanged every time they kicked a gen, they'd just stop kicking them and facecamp as bubba instead. Especially since Reassurance is apparently so abysmally awful that people refuse to use it :)
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You need to complete 5 gens, that number doesn't change unless the EGC starts and/or hatch spawns. You need to hook survivors 4-12 times to complete your objective of killing all 4. not only are they not even, one isn't even variable while the other is (unless you start to add in gens done by other players, but that only decreases your burden.) Not only that, but chasing, downing, and hooking survivors is a lot more work and interaction than holding m1 and occasionally pressing space over the course of roughly 60 seconds.
Meanwhile, the 4 seconds you get from the stun (on top of the time they would then spend kicking the gen after) should make you absolutely ghost. If you're not getting value from that you need to learn how stealth works in the game on even a basic level. Obviously some setups on some maps will give more or less room to vanish, but even just corn can cover you at that point. And absolute worst case? hold M1 and gain tons of ground. you don't even need to be present during the stun.
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Blast Mine definitely shouldn't have had this change. I hope they rethink this.
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No, because a survivor getting downed and hooked is influenced by the killer’s skill.
Using Blast Mine is like fishing. You press the button, wait, and hope for the best. I’m not comparing BBQ to Blast Mine, instead I’m trying to contrast them. If you want a comparison, I think Dragon’s Grip would be the best thing to compare it to.
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I am going to guess because of consistency. The same reason MoM got nerfed, but this time, the devs somehow thought people wouldn't be upset about the nerf.
It's a questionable nerf to say the least, and I hope it gets either reverted, or Blast Mine gets a compensation buff, in form of a decreased repair progress requirement.
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Not saying I agree with the decision - but if I had to guess its more than likely because they wanted to keep Blast Mine and Wiretap interactions consistent.
Remember, they changed Mettle of Man to keep consistency with endurance. Although have now reverted that change.
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Are you claiming survivors have zero agency in chase? Or are you not aware that time is extremely relative in this game, and delays can completely change things? Or even that a killer can down a survivor and then have their hook denied through multiple means? Enough of this "only i'm allowed to, and here's a list of reasons why" stuff, both sides have the ability to prevent perk activation/usage/impact from the other, that isn't anything that hasn't plagued both sides for years.
If your comparison point is dragon's grip you're focusing way too hard on the fact it involves kicking a gen and setting a trap than you are the literally anything else.
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I see why you thought I’m saying that survivors don’t have agency in chase, but I’m only acknowledging that the killer ALSO has agency in a chase. That does not mean survivors don’t.
Yes, a killer can have a hook denied. But you’re missing my point. I am not saying that blast mine’s problem is that the killer has the ability to deny it. My point is that BY DESIGN, the survivor cannot control if you get value from the perk or not. That’s why I compared it to dragon’s grip as well. The killer can’t control if the survivors will work on the generator before the duration expires, and i wouldn’t mind seeing be changed to how blast mine used to be, as well as Blast Mine being reverted of course.
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The difference between Dragons Grip and Blast mine, With DG you dont have to activate it first by doing something up 66%, you jsut need to kick the gen. With Blast mine, we can only plant it once we repair a gen 66% first then we have a single Blast mine to plant.
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Good point.
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But it is also BY DESIGN that hex perks can be removed entirely from play without guaranteeing they'll even last long enough to be applicable. Many other perks carry similar stipulations that can entirely prevent their usage, including other survivor perks as well, even just taking self care when going against plague. There's a slew of things in this game that guarantee nothing, and the more powerful their effect, the more likely there is going to be a way to deny it or for it to never apply at all.
You're also not taking into account the killers time is more important than an individual survivor's. The reason there should be a way to deny value from the perk is because it has a strong impact. Thats the exact reasoning as to why hexes have never improved, why boons can be cleansed, it even gave DS power without needing to run it in the past (since the potential waste was often not worth the risk vs slugging and trying to maintain map pressure instead.)
Again, you're asking for a lose/lose scenario in the wrong place. Hell, you could even argue you being able to use the perk in the first place is denying the killer not only their gen kick perks, but the ability to perform a core mechanic they're supposed to do (kicking gens) which encourages them to use strategies that don't require the risk (like say, facecamping and tunneling.)
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I said it in the other thread but Blast Mine was already a fairly weak perk. It was fun which is why people used it, I used it on quite a few of my survivors, but it's overall effect was never -that- good in the grand sceme of things, so it's weird they decided to 'fix the bug' of being refunded if not kicked.
Meh, I used it mostly to give my solo teammates info anyway. and Wiretap is much better for that.
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I mean couldn't the same be argued for BBQ? If I down a survivor and the other 3 get into lockers/step into the terror radius/hide behind a gen aura, if I hook the survivor and spin around and see nothing around me what value did I get from the perk? I have no idea where anyone is and that means they could all be on top of me or on the furthest gens out or anywhere in between.
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Most killer perks like this have a cooldown. They can walk around and it replinishes itself and the perk actually does something like regress a gen, and put someone in the exposed state, etc. Blast mine requires 66% of a gen done with a split of resources between 3 other players. It literally stuns the killer for a few seconds. The killer then recovers and kicks the gen anyway. What a game changer! They took a useless perk and turned it into a pointless one.
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BHVR really likes to waste money. Paying people to sit around on company time and think about which perks could be made worse.
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Its only pointless if your intention with it is to use it pointlessly. Not knowing how to use a tool properly doesn't mean it needs to be changed so you can use it exactly how you want. The time waste it forces is worth far more than having the gen not be regressing for a few seconds. Its on you to utilize that properly, or just not use the perk.
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because the survior perk requires killers to interact with them, generally to the detriment of their own gameplay, while KILLER perks, give them bonus information, extra slow down, or straight up ability to insta down/kill, do you not see how these are vastly different?
also you talk about cooldowns on perks for killers but what of jolt? SH:PR? these two perks get insane use atm same with overcharge, and there is no cooldown on them, yes there is a hook trigger or have to kick the gen/down survivor but thats it
where as for blast mine, you have to work on the gen for 66% progression contributed by YOU (if other survivors are working on it, it can NOT be done on a single gen, so if a killer keeps coming back to the same gen and using overcharge/pop, you are stuck dealing with it for awhile, and if they now start chasing and then going back to kick, they never have to deal with blast mine, so this nerf to the perk is a roundabout buff to the killers, again, for them being able to hold W and put literally everything on a minute timer before worrying about doing anything about it,
and sure if they dont kick it someone can just pop the gen while they are in chase, but that also wastes the perk slot, the whole reason to bring a perk is so it can be used, was not the entire reason for all these perk reworks so people could feel like they could bring whatever perk they brought in was useful? a nerf like this makes the perk basically useless
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LMAO. The perk is dead. It was barely on life support if not for blinding challenges by survivors who can't use flashlights. It was a meme perk with much better options. The seconds it wasted was so minuscule as to not matter. Repressed Alliance is a much better time waster and actually protects the gen from the overcharge/ call of brine meta. The secondary function to highlight the gen in solo queue is now gone. Your defending of it is hilarious though. Carry on.
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Then use perks with weaker effects, that trade high risk/reward for just being safe bonuses. You're kinda missing the forest for the trees here.
Also in regards to the meta rework, it was a joke from the start. They technically made BT less used by giving it basekit (and even added a speed boost to both perk and basekit versions) and Dead hard less used by actually giving it a skill floor, as well as ruin and corrupt getting used less because they're useless now (except on specific builds or killers, of course) and Thana got buffed so hard it actually got nerfed to values before its buff (yes yes, i know the fuzzy math around the gen time change)
my point is that meta shakeups are supposed to be about addressing what causes a current meta, not just changing the perk icons you see in each match result. If they were to make changes to make a perk like blast mine not be able to be denied before being used, they would have to do the same for a rather significant portion of the entire game. Its deeper than any of that, it even goes down to contradictory base mechanics, like wiggling vs traveling to hook, both sides are trying to deny the other, "if X succeeds, then Y needs to be denied."
If you do understand that, you're ignoring the perspective of "i was able to kick the gen before they sat on it for a whole minute" and only considering "i sat on the gen for a while, so i should be guaranteed both usage and value from this perk."
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