Why was Blast Mine nerfed?

"The seconds it wasted was so minuscule as to not matter"

just as a heads up, 5 seconds on DS was what made killers entirely change their playstyle around it. and that number changed a few times, but its usage and threat didn't until they added the conspicuous action clause to it. 4 seconds can literally change the game when placed correctly, regardless of whether you understand how or why.

Also when did i ever imply repressed alliance isn't also a perk that people think is useless due to not understanding it? I agree its undervalued and even consider it as proof that blocking gens is inherently neutral and can benefit either killer or survivor, depending on the context around it

I already said it before, but I'm defending that people think its useless because they don't understand how to apply it properly. Its actually kinda ironic you tried to do the same to me about repressed when i never even doubted it before.

Thats cool there's a video confirming your opinion. There are also others that do the opposite, and they even include other factors like pallets, windows, and a plethora of other variables that each interaction is subjected to. Note how opinions aren't facts, since they center around a perspective and whether they are confirmed or denied by ones experiences.

All I'm saying is undervaluing is not the same as being useless, and it certainly doesn't mean your appraisal is correct.

I’m more curious why there was no mention of it before today. They made notes available for every other change making this one fell out of left field

I used it for the same reason. Could get the challenge done in one game, now who knows

Clearly this not that popular perk was tooo OP as dead man's switch and ruin so it needed nerf.

So now you can use it maybe twice if you're lucky, well I should say charge it twice, not sure if you actually use it tho.

But clearly the perk was tooooo OP so now no one will be running it. I know I won't, there's already a lot of perks with one time use I would rather not use two of them. Can't wait for another dumb a** challenge to blind or stun the killer 60 times in one match.

"Just hardcore throw the game and maybe the killer won't camp you!"

If blast mine shouldn't be refunded and it was in fact a bug, then I think it shouldn't expire. It should deactivate only if it explode or generator is completed.

It was gimmicky, funny perk, shame it got nerfed like that.

I'm just tired of the whole 'if the killer doesn't like something, they'll go camp, so just do whatever they want' attitude.

That's honestly quite rich, considering you came up with this over freaking Blast Mine. One tiny set-back and apparently killers are willing to just drop literally all engagement and just go camp instead. That doesn't sound like wanting to have fun. That sounds like wanting cheap kills and taking any excuse to effectively throw a tantrum.

I'm real tired of camping being used as a beatstick. 'Do what I want, or else'.

That's the point: There is no 'further up the chain'. There's two reasons killers camp:

1) It's a super low effort, yet still very effective way of securing kills.

2) It's a protest against things the killer doesn't like.

Every single time camping comes up as a subject, someone starts ruminating on how survivors could be nerfed further to try and 'incentivise playing nice'. The reality is that killers will continue to camp because even if they don't have reason #2, they still have reason #1. And the only way that's going to get fixed is if it becomes a very ineffective way of securing kills, or has vastly increased effort to it. Some people will argue to make non-camping stronger, but the problem with that is that camping is at an unfair point of effort/reward, and so the only way to make non-camping be more appealing than that is by having an even better effort/reward ratio.

So in short: No. Camping needs to get gutted. That's the only way to get rid of it.

No, what he said is valid. Survivors want to complain about "unbeatable" Overcharge/Call Of Brine, but they don't want to run the perk that punishes the killer the most for kicking gens. You get "massive" benefit from those perks only after you get Blast Mine stunned, and if the survivors don't come behind and start working on the gen again. What survivors got massive benefit out of was a perk that outclassed Better Together in every way, because it gave a cross-map aura AND it has the blinding/stunning the killer part attached as a bonus. And you could just put it on a gen that would be finished 2 seconds later, and it would save it for you.

CoH killed hit and run as well, which multiple killers pretty much needed to be viable. It was also a universal strat that most killers could use, a similar lowest common denominator: "if survivors are constantly wasting time finding each other to heal, it creates pressure on gens since less people are working on them." Incredibly simple concept, completely invalidated by survivors being able to set up a selfcare station in an area of the map the killer is unable to pressure simultaneously. Also you literally just got a free BT at basekit which has a speed boost it never had in the past, stop the "survivors never get anything" dishonesty. Same with your "six-fold buff" to killers, where you emphasize the quantity while ignoring the quality. Your bar getting lowered comment is purposely ignoring factors to try to suit your perspective again.

You're thinking in excuses while assuming anyone who disagrees with you must be doing the same. Ironic that you threw in spine chill since the devs actually wanted it to require line of sight even just recently, and took a step back because they can't figure out how to do accessibility still. Your refusal to consider perspectives other than your own is why you're never going to understand balance.

1. No one in this thread has said anything about Call of Brine/Overcharge being unbeatable. At best, they are mentioned because they are frequently used. Assumedly because the killers running them get good value from it. If you want to bring up strawman survivor complaints from other threads or around the internet, then this is going to be a pointless rabbit hole of Us vs Them.
2. Blast Mine technically "punishes" killers for kicking gens, sure, but Blast Mine does not counter gen kicking perks unless the killer specifically tried kicking the gen at the last 5 seconds of their Pop Goes the Weasel. Killers still get to apply their gen kicking perks after the stun is over.
3. If the survivors stuck around for you to kick the gen, they would have done the same regardless of if they had Blast Mine or not. In fact, if the survivor stuck around to work on the gen after it has been kicked, they are wasting time by running Blast Mine because it means they have to sit there and wait an additional 5ish seconds doing nothing waiting for the killer to recover before kicking the gen and moving on.
4. Blast Mine doesn't objectively outclass Better Together/Situational Awareness. Situational Awareness doesn't require a charge time like Blast Mine and it gives aura of other survivors when someone is downed while you are working on a generator. This can be very useful, especially in solo queue, to know who may be in the area for a save or if you need to get moving in case another survivor is in the area of the killer and is about to go down. You can value Blast Mine more personally, but I think they have enough differences to not boil down to the fact they both highlight a gen.

It's kinda funny, we were all under the impression the perk was working as intended

So nobody reported it as a bug, which meant it never got fixed until the programmer made a similar perk and noticed.

Not faulting him for fixing the bug but hopefully the designers ask him to make it how it was previously (He did say in the tweet that it's up to them, so there's hope!)

Yeah this change needs to be reverted. Not a whole lot that needs to be said about this, it was just an awful change.

To be fair, it is absolutely possible to miss things in your own game, especially when said game is made by a team. Not every person personally designed every aspect of the game, so they're gonna be oblivious to things that aren't self evident as much as the next person is. That said, it is absolutely a QA fail, as conditional checks working properly is an extremely important aspect of playtesting. Even then things do fall through the cracks, but they would be more culpable than one of the modelers or sound team using the perk while playing but not being aware its not functioning correctly.

I hope they revert it, the fact that they reverted the Mettle change based on feedback gives me some hope for Blast Mine.

Yes, thanks, that's why I said it was the only threat to non-camping, non-tunnelling playstyles.

And how does that help when the killer isn't camping/tunneling?

They're SIX compounding buffs that all make the baseline gameplay for the killer stronger, on top of the strongest survivor perk getting a solid (Well-deserved) nerf. But you (And many killer players) disregarded all of that. Because we're right back where we were: Killer is too hard, so we're just gonna camp and tunnel again.

You're complaining about people 'ruining the alternatives' when nothing has been doing that, and then when there's six buffs to the alternatives, those don't count. Then you say I'm ignoring factors in my 'bar getting lowered' comment, but you're right here constantly shifting the goalpost. They get a tool to try and combat tunnelling and you somehow twist that to mean that the survivors got something to 'ruin the alternatives'. The alternative gets six buffs and it's not good enough because the individual buffs weren't meaty enough.

You're literally lowering the bar as we speak but then claiming I'm wrong about it.

I also like this comment in regards to DS and Blast Mine. "You need to understand how to apply the perk!"

Except survivors don't apply it. The killer does. It is literally dependent on them applying the action that triggers it. Survivors have practically no control over these perks.

That was the problem with DS too. It was actually a really terrible perk because it required a triple-dip misplay from the killer before it fired, leading to it rarely ever going off against a competent killer. The reason it was a high pick is because it still deterred the de facto strongest strategy and when it fired, it would actually have a meaningful impact: 5 seconds of stun, PLUS the additional chase. Blast mine doesn't give that.

This is also a major cop-out, and wrong. Yes, OTR is better than new DS, since new DS is utterly garbage, but OTR doesn't beat out old DS for value. Additionally, OTR is, ironically, countered by camping/tunnelling hard enough.

But just address his argument. Would DS still be worth picking up if it didn't give the survivor their health state back?

note the person that only read as far as "there is a video" in the post, then started typing, because had they actually READ my post, i clearly said "granted the video is showing a survivor going in a straight line in front of the killer, but that is to represent the max distance you can get" are there videos showing the opposite? im sure, were there videos showing how "broken" ds could be at end game? obviously, did that warrant nerfing it to oblivion and making it that much easier for killers to tunnel?

keep all this in mind when you start complaining about 5-15+ minute killer queues (i have tried playing killer, even before the dlc, and oh boy are the wait times long, i wonder why? surely its not due to lack of survivors is it?)

Max distance ranges arent even the correct usage, you're supposed to be getting to a defensible loop with that time. If that loop is closer than running in a straight line means literally nothing. Your comparison doesn't even take into account the nature of tiles in the game. Kinda tired of people trying to keep turning insights into arguments, i even emphasized the only thing im trying to accomplish is help you think about how to better utilize tools instead of complaining when they dont do exactly what you want.

Also when have i complained about killer queues? When have i even stated I play killer often?

no, you are just ignoring the fact that the devs countless times claim things as a "bug" instead of a feature when either one side (usually killers) complain too much, or they dont want to take the time to properly FIX the issue, because that takes away time from pumping out cosmetics and DLCs after all, we wouldnt want a properly flushed out game with as few bugs as possible would we? i mean we should expect it when they have 1500 auric cell cosmetics right?

funny that you claim im the one wanting to argue, when you sat there and said what amounts to "cool story bro" when i pointed out very clearly that the video i was talking about was one set scenario (which is what you said in the post quoting me, correct?)

ALSO i was just ######### face camped on the hook, i thought the devs made it so people can unhook at any angle? as well as hook at any angle? but the new killer can apparently BLOCK the entire HALLWAY and the hook? this should not be a thing, it was on a hall hook in midwich, and he was even insidious camping (granted its a perk in the game, but survivors these days dont know what waving your arms in the air means, it doeant mean "come save me" it means "killer is camping"