http://dbd.game/killswitch
My Suggestions For Nerfing The Nurse
She seems like a hot topic right now, and I want to throw my two cents in! My ideas are split between two groups- the core ideas that I think must be implemented, and the secondary ideas that I think might be interesting or useful without necessarily thinking all must be implemented at once, or that they're as obviously necessary as the core ideas.
So, the two core ideas first:
The Nurse's Blink attacks become Special Attacks. This one is obvious- there's only one argument against it, and that's perk diversity, but frankly I do not consider that a good enough reason not to implement this overwhelmingly obvious change. The Nurse still has that one funky addon to make her 4.6 while disabling Blink, so anyone who wants to use M1 perks on the Nurse as a gimmick build still has that. It's a strict downgrade from where she is now, because it's supposed to be.
The Nurse has all "straight upgrade" addons removed entirely. This is mostly Range and Recharge, but I'm pretty sure there's a third set that I'm forgetting. The reason for this is twofold; the first is that the Nurse's power is simply too strong to have its numbers straightforwardly improved by her addons, and the second is that survivors should be able to get a feel for exactly how much time and distance they can earn from a missed Blink, or exactly how far the Nurse can move with each teleport, which they currently cannot. Since I am also suggesting that her Blinks become Special Attacks, I think it'd be fair to give her back some of the less egregious M1 perks via addons- Sloppy Butcher and Franklin's, perhaps. A case by case basis on that one.
Those are the only two things I consider necessary for fixing the Nurse, but I do have a few other ideas that might help too. To reiterate, I am not suggesting all these changes be made at once, nor am I going as hard to bat for them as I would the first two- they're just some interesting ideas.
The Nurse loses all Blink tokens when stunned. It's my experience that the Nurse doesn't typically get stunned by pallets, and so when she does get stunned, it's typically in a scenario where it should matter more than it does. Decisive Strike, wiggling off her shoulder, heck, even Head On saves are more viable against most other killers than they are against Nurse because she can just ready a blink and get right back to it. If her tokens were depleted, at least she'd have to wait for them to recharge before she could back on the person who escaped her before.
The Nurse becomes unable to read auras while charging a Blink. This one does start rubbing against the perk diversity problem, but I'd argue she'd still make good use of some aura reading. Something that shows her where survivors are on the map, like BBQ or Bitter Murmur or early game Lethal Pursuer, would still be useful, she just can't use perks like I'm All Ears or even Retribution to read someone's aura perfectly through walls and slap them. What exactly is a survivor supposed to do in a scenario like that? I'm more on the fence about this one myself, but I think it warrants being discussed.
Basic number tweaks. It should be mentioned that various aspects of her power could be tweaked, from recharge time to maximum distance travelled, but I personally don't think that's necessary. Her kit has specific problems, rather than being directionlessly "too strong". Still, it's on the table.
What do you all think?
Comments
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I like your suggestions. Sadly, I think BHVR is still siding with those people who say "you're just bad, gid gud", "nurse is fine, you just suck at juking her"
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Nurse basekit is fine. Only range and 3 blink need reworks.
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The ability to instadown through walls, while reading auras to ensure no chance at dodging, is fine?
Like I said, I don't think the numbers of her basekit need looking at, but there's very clearly a discussion about whether an ability as powerful as the Nurse's should also get to use Exposed perks.
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Every Exposed perk has its own counterplay built in. Starstruck is to (1) stay separated in general (which should be done regardless of the killer’s build against every killer except Twins), and (2) make distance from someone that goes down. Outside of horribly designed maps that are also too small and need a rework anyways (Midwich/Gideon), Starstruck isn’t an issue even with Agitation.
Aura perks do not prevent evading Nurse. Aura perks or no, the survivor still has the ability to play around the knowledge the Nurse has to come for them regardless in the end. This is the same reason mindgaming and evading hits in the open still works. Also the Nurse lasering onto you makes it pretty obvious there’s aura perks involved, which make it pretty simple to guess which ones. Aura perks also have their own counters.
Also, running aura/Exposed perks mean running less or no slowdown perks, which are leagues stronger than the former type can or will ever be. Exposed can be avoided outright. Aura reveals can be mindgamed still even if difficult. You can’t really prevent Nurse from auto-denying gens via kicking it with Call of Brine/Eruption combo, or auto-blocking the most progressed gen with Deadlock, or Pain Resonance/DMS combo which will damage the gen regardless of letting go of it, etc.
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Right, but you're talking about the counterplay to those perks as they apply to other killers- surely you won't deny that the Nurse is uniquely capable of making use of those perks due to her power substituting the typical rules of the game for her own, personalised method of approaching a trial?
Like, you say "make distance" on a downed survivor, but the Nurse can teleport through walls. Sure you see how countering Exposed perks, even ones with clear activation like Starstruck, becomes much harder against a killer like that?
As for aura perks, they prevent mindgaming against other killers, they certainly prevent mindgaming the Nurse. They're just less powerful on those other killers, because those other killers still need to obey conventional looping rules, for the most part.
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Nurse’s counterplay regardless of her build is mindgaming her blinks. The perks’ counter regardless of the killer has an example listed in the previous post. So in Nurse’s case, there’s both methods of avoiding available. Same with any other killer and their specific counterplay. (Eg avoiding Starstruck Doctor by running out of his TR ASAP so he can’t shockblast you to reveal your location after the hook happens)
I see what you mean, but I also don’t consider it an issue. Outside of badly designed maps like super cramped Midwich/Gideon, making distance is completely possible. And maps like those need changes regardless of Nurse’s existence anyways. Range and 3 blink make it even dumber. Also, even if you get Starstruck, as long as you avoid being revealed, you’ll be fine. Eg, lockers against aura/scream, Distortion, Calm Spirit, etc even without distance. Then her finding you comes down to game sense and guessing if she has no confirmation.
They prevent mindgaming against other killers since those killers can just walk at you faster than you can run. There is no burst movement or fatigue. It’s a continuous walk. Nurse has to blink to a target location, which makes her "threat area" a radius around her blink destination, not the entire path there. Also charge up/fatigue + being slower than a survivor means she has to commit to any given location she ends up deciding to blink to. Does that make sense? So whether you’re in the open or whether you’re aura revealed doesn’t make much of a difference against Nurse. Against standard M1s where a loop might be safe normally, auras would make it unsafe because they move faster than you do in a continuous walk.
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I think range is 20M (I can be wrong)
I think recharge is 1.5 seconds (I can be wrong)
So by changing those number and removing those addons will make her better to face
Also the aura reading on charging a Blink... should be the same as Spirit (she loses aura reading once you start charging her Phase)
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Sounds good except outright removing add-ons. I also think only the second blink in a chain should be a special attack. Reward nurses for being accurate and not relying on the corrective blink.
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20/12 is first/second range, Recharge is 3s per token.
If a survivor is hit by 1 blink, that is literally always a misplay.
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Thanks @SuzuKR
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I say "removing" but really I mean "reworking" - I just wanted to be clear that the end result is that she'd have no straight upgrade addons whatsoever, not that she'd have fewer addons than any other killer in general.
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Here is a simple idea to modify the nurse without destroying her gameplay :
Teleport: 1 (instead of 2)
Base speed off power: 4.4 m/s (instead of 3.85 m/s)
It will be necessary to see if it is really comfortable from the killer point of view and to modify the addons accordingly.
That's all.
Why do you debate for hours when things are simple ?
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...How would that fix anything, though?
If those are the only changes you make, she's still a killer who gets to ignore the game's usual setup, she still has obscene synergy with Exposed and aura reading perks, and she becomes harder to counter because she can chase you directly in addition to hitting you through walls.
It'd certainly be a modified Nurse, but the modifications don't address any of the problems she has.
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That would be literally worse for both sides.
Makes Nurse literally garbage at crossing the map and awful at chasing because 1 blink is useless garbage that should never hit unless a survivor misplays. So she just has to walk at 110% which is awful.
EXCEPT at windows/pallets which she auto wins because she just blinks across at the window or pallet for a hit. Which will happen eventually, because she walks faster than you.
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Or the range addons need more downsides
Longer charge and longer fatigue and recharge
I know that it won't solve the issues presented but doing that on top of whatever else we can think of
On top of making her 2nd Blink a special attack (IMO)
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I agree with all the suggestions.
Something I'd like to add, though, is something for newer players. Nurse has among the worst killrates because of how hard it is to learn her, which I think is a reason nothing major has ever been done to balance her. Something like a charge bar or a clear indicator of how much time before going to fatigue could help players approaching her while not affecting experienced players much. If Nurse were less extreme in her skill differences, also killrates should become more average and she should be easier to balance overalll.
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Not at all. Nurse doesn't need those nerfs.
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All of your ideas are interesting.
1. Special Attack blinks: The Nurse won't be hurt if she can't use all perks the same anymore. Many M2 or hybrid killers also have this "issue". It even comes with some benefits like the better use of STBFL.
2. Lose tokens when stunned. Sounds good. Oni, Plague etc all Lose their power. Nurse should too.
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What would be the nerfs you'd say she does need? I'm curious.
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The only nerf I'd say is to nerf the range add-ons. But nothing more
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So you wouldn't say that Nurse's extreme synergy with Exposed perks is a problem? It seems like a pretty questionable combo that she should get to instadown through walls, let alone with aura reading slapped on top of that.
She's the undisputed strongest killer for a reason, and that's not always a good thing.
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I think it's fine for the time being.
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