Are survivors a team?
This is something that I've wonder and am still not 100% sure on.
Like if we go by "win" condition the answer is no right? Like the win condition for survivor is escape. Now helping the other survivors may allow you to achieve this but the win condition is just based on your survival.
That being said on the competitive circuit they are counted as a team. Many players killer and survivor alike call the survivors teammates. One of the BP sections is based on Altruism which would be helping others out.
Like killers are definitely in a 1v4 but are survivors in a 1v1 or a 4v1
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No they are not, it is a Battle Royale party game.
If it were a team game youd see more Bonds over Urban Evasion
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Nope. Not at all. I only consider myself part of a team if I am in a SWF. Other than that, all my teammates are disposable potato's
If I want to play a true team game, there's plenty of titles for that. DBD is every man for himself imo, if the killer is slaying the games play out more like a BR than anything
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It's actually openly vague (which I don't like). The devs sometimes treat the game as is it's every survivor for themselves, but other times they treat it like they're a team. For instance, when they were testing out MMR earlier this year, they mentioned in their blog that one of the things they wanted to do was tweak MMR so that survivors go up or down as a group based on how many of them escape or die. That's clearly a sign that in this case they are thinking the game should treat them as a team, not individuals. Then other times they have things like Low Profile on Ada which makes it sound like it's every survivor for themselves. On top of which they have no single clear victory condition in the game either, just a series of different things and they "let the player decide if they won".
And I firmly think the game would have been better off from the beginning if they had gone the route of the official boardgame and clearly spelled out that the survivors are a team and win or lose as a group. Ambiguous semi-cooperative game design rarely works.
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MMR being based off how many people from your team escape or die would be so awful. Consider how every 1/3 or 1/4 game probably has a suicide or a DC in it. And also consider how a survivor can lose games of DBD with ~literally 0~ input as another survivor gets tunneled to death at 5 gens entirely across the map somewhere.
Other games you can play better and win, DBD survivor you can only do gens at a fixed rate. And even if you are a god at looping the killer can just ignore you. That's why it's a party game and never something people will consider very competitive outside a tiny subset of neckbeards who main Nurse
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Good question.
Do we ride or die like a team? Sure do.
Do we get the tools to act like one? Does the game itself care if our team escapes as long as we do? Sure don't.
BHVR can't make up its mind about it because that would be awkward and take some effort to rectify. Better to enjoy this tasty tasty cake that never goes away when we eat it.
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Yes, until you aren't.
It's a 4v1 that turns into a 1v1v1v1v1.
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Keep in mind that (as far as I know) the devs already take disconnects into account in the MMR so presumably they'd do something similar if they tweaked it for group changes. Also if survivors gained MMR and bloodpoints as a group versus as individuals it would be extra incentive for ragequitters to stick around longer if they personally are losing but the other survivors are alive to make a comeback. And by treating the survivors as a group for going up or down in MMR it makes it so, like in the scenario you described, if one survivor holds off the killer for a really long time and dies but it let everybody else get out then that distraction running player will still go up in MMR (in fact that's kind of one of the main reasons the devs were talking about making this change in the first place.)
P.S. I don't know where this dumb "Dead by Daylight is a party game" meme started. Yeah, a game that takes hours to actually learn to play and which its player unironically call people who have played the game for a couple hundred hours "potatoes and newbs" is a "party game". 🙄
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I love that you say no and then like a sentence later call the other survivors teammates.
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Yes it is most def a team game. Solo queue giving you awful teammates does not negate that fact. As much as Bhvrs famous '1v1v1v1v1' line is pushed many, many of the perks are balanced because the survivors as a team have 12 hook states, they also have 16 perks. BHVR should absolutely add ping/comms/seeing teammate perks though since there's such a gap between swf and solo, it is not correct to claim that survivors are not a team though in my opinion. The delta between the success of playing as a team vs playing greedy/solo is so massive it's not even a contest.
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My biggest issue with that is that your fellow survivors impact your chances of survival. So survivors are a team even if they dont want to be.
I have gotten the opinion that Hatch needs a rework and would be available to those who finished 2 gens alone or 4 gens together(or 1 gen alone and 2 together). They can decide to leave early, which is especially nice if your team are complete potatoes, or stay for more BP and aid their teammates. This hatch would be different in the sense that it does give you MMR, but less than if you were to escape through the gate. This hatch is only visible to the killer and the survivor in question, and the killer can temporarily close the hatch, but it would open again everytime a gen is finished.
The benefits here would be that a survivor can be removed early from the game that isnt negative for that specific survivor, but still positive for the killer(a survivor leaving early could grant a 3k in a match that could otherwise be a 1k). It would also set a personal win condition on survivors that doesnt fully rely on their teammates. And no one can claim that its a free escape either. It still grants the killer to get a 4k but adds another patrol option, or the killer could try to force that survivor out early on.
This also gives the killer an incentive to chase multiple survivors, because if the killer tunnels, 3 survivors can escape within 4 minutes. If the killer doesnt tunnel, chances are low that more than 1 survivor can escape early on, but the rest of survivors are forced to stay in the trial for the full 10 minutes.
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To me it's an intentionally vague thing that depends on how you enter the Trial.
If you enter through Solo Q then you're just a stranger to the other survivors. You don't know them, you've never seen them before, you only know your objectives because the Entity informed you before the Trial. You will do what you can to make sure you all make it, but in the end they are nothing to you and your own survival trumps theirs.
If you enter as a SWF, no matter the size, you and the ones you queued into the Trial with made a connection in whatever place the survivors stay in between Trials. You formed a team and promised that you all were gonna get through this together. Leaving them behind will only be an option if they tell you to.
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No, survivors are not a team. They are four individuals with the same goal. They can contribute, together, towards this goal but this is not required for them to reach their goal [escape/MMR rank up].
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Survivors should play as a team, and I personally try to play as part of a team (Kindred helps a ton). Unfortunately a lot of current game mechanics don't really tie into that ideal.
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Personally I believe we are a team until you prove we arent a team. The game is intended to be played as a team as that is what gives advantage over the killer.
Mind you I also generally try not to camp/tunnel/slug unless its necessary
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It's more of a team game than it used to be. Playing for hatch is far less realistic than it was a couple of years ago.
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Dwight's quote for Bond says it best:
"We have to work as a team. I need you to survive so that I can survive"
Survivors do have to work as a team where possible to reach a realistic chance of escaping. If they don't, then they're just meat for the Entity.
Once the escape is available though, then a survivor can choose whether to flee, or stay to help the others. Depends on how the individual wants to play the game.
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I remember one of the devs saying in their stream (maybe it was the hockey one lol) that for killer it’s 1v1. I don’t recall if he said anything for survivor.
For me personally I always see it like any asymmetrical horror game: 1v4. And this is regardless of playing solo or in a SWF.
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Until the gens are done, you are a team. You won't really get very far if you constantly leave the other survivors out to dry before the gens are finished.
But once they are finished you honestly have 0 obligation to help them anymore.
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I’ve seen Bond used to run Killer to a survivor on a progressing gen to try and get Killer out of the chase. Let’s not act like Bond is always used to help the objective. Sometimes it’s used to help that one survivor.
If you want to escape you play the game as a team:
Safe unhooks
Healing w/o missing skill checks
Do gens w/o missing skill checks preferably with a teammate
Take a hit if you see someone being tunneled.
If you have 0 hooks take aggro if two of your teammates have 1-2 hooks.
Try to run the killer away from completed gens.
Use good map awareness when completing gens, try not to create a 3 gen area.
Affer the exit gates are powered on it’s 100% solo from then. Don’t run the killer to a gate you know is being open being the only common sense rule.
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Yes, but they aren’t obligated to play as such.. and often don’t in solo queue. Sure you have altruistic perks; then on the opposite end of the spectrum, perks completely for oneself - best examples being Self-Preservation and Sole Survivor.
Watch all the official trailer videos and see how many times a survivor sneaks away from another in trouble. It brings a lot of salt, but also much of what makes DBD such a unique experience.
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Correct. Outside of SWF, you're pretty much only working together if it improves your own odds of survival. Unhooking after the gates are powered, for example, is an extreme risk and only done by the most altruistic people. You only unhook or heal if keeping the other cannon fodder alive is necessary for your escape.
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this used work like this with keys. hatch spawned if 1 person died and 1 gen was remaining or if 2 survivor died and 2 gens were remaining. it lead to cases of just losing randomly from 3 people escaping from the hatch or last two escaping. often 1 from far exit gate and another from the hatch.
its team game. 4,3,2 escapes are win for the survivor and 3k/4k is a win for killer. that's always how I saw it. the survivor win conditions are easier because its suppose to be that survivor has "harder" time escaping because killer is supposedly stronger and is favoured to win.
team based MMR would be really good, but a lot of people complain about their teammates being trash and blame them for losing, so individual mmr is suppose lead to less toxicity regarding that. it would be more accurate for survivor but could prove be a little toxic. At the same time, I don't think mmr needs to be super accurate. it should be vaguely accurate unless you just want the game to be super ultra competitive. I see dbd more as casually competitive. its suppose to be fun to play dbd, but have little bit of matchmaking to it.
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Realistically it's a team game, but that's not how most players play. Coordinated survivors are insanely strong while uncoordinated are almost weaker than the weakest killers.
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Its a team game until only 2 are left.
Then its a ladt man standing for the hatch.
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Not when theres only one gen.
And honestly I still do gens when there is still someone else.
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I always go out of my way to help my team, even if it means I die trying to help them. If I can trade hooks at EGC to allow my teammate to survive, I class that as a win.
This does depend on how the other team plays though. If they're not being supportive I won't be inclined to help as much, unless I want a few extra points.
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You play as a team and help the team, but ultimately, its an individual contest. Arguments against for those playing swf.
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I view it as a team game. If 2 or more survivors escape, I consider it a survivor win. I don't care if I died, feels like a win.
I do think when it gets to doors survivors should just leave. If I get put on the hook late and see that the others are coming for me, unless I'm close to the exit I'll intentionally sacrifice myself. I'd rather they get out then take the risk to get me.
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You’re incorrect, survivors win individually—not as a team.
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You are a team, doesnt Matter how people try spin it you are a team of 4 having to work together.
If you never helped anyone youd have to have perks/items to self heal and youd always die on first hook as you need your TEAM to unhook you.
While you'll get very selfish people those tend to be selfish (obviously hence the name) or they arent highly skilled/dont escape often so they often leave others or refuse to help them in Hope's to get hatch or not risk danger
If people are smart they will work as a team, it's how you make the game easy for survivors. Higher ranking players understand that and it's why body blocking, taking hooks/chases is more common
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Whatever your opinion is, don't let the killer know you're not playing for the team unless youre a crazy person who enjoys long drawn out wars for who can die last.
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I asked this awhile back and I think it was queen who answered at the time. Maybe it wasn't her but the gist of the answer was,
The game is not a team game. While it is usually best to help keep the other survivors alive, it really is an every person for themselves type of game.
Granted this was years ago but I haven't heard anything from anyone else otherwise.
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In solo queue the term "team" is used far too loosely by the DEVS. Solo queue has no way of communicating or any way at all to coordinate efficiently against killers. Pretty sure this is intentional, in 6 years they haven't bothered to address this.
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In my experience most survivors see teamwork in this game as other survivors have an obligation to help them, but they have no obligation to help anyone else.
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They are not, they are a team until the gens are done, after that the goal is to escape no matter what. The concept of a sandbagging survivor is a interesting one for creation, since fits with the battle royale lore
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i was thinking of explaining this but i omitted from the post. Survivors in theory can do 5 gens, unhook and heal everyone and do 2-3 minute chases like emblem system suggests but in practice, its not efficient way to win as survivor. you want divide task among 4 survivors because its way faster to win this way. Its one of reasons why old emblem system for survivor made no sense because most swf that are strong will often depip at red ranks because they're so efficient at dividing every task and winning extremely quickly that you can't rank up.
survivor can escape individually, but working as a team to get the escape is more effective. I had something to say regards to killer emblems but the post was too long, so it was omitted.
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Yeah people with attitude like yours are the reason why SoloQ is hell. You wanna play "individually", play killer.
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You do realize that your chances of escape heavily rely on a team effort, right? Unless every game you play you just hope to get a hatch. SWF or not, playing DBD like BR is pretty much griefing. Honestly, people with attitude like yours are the reason why SoloQ sucks.
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Not really, the way keys worked was based on how many survivors were left and how many gens were done in total. Im talking if you finished 2/5ths of gens on your own, you deserve to escape. If you fixed 4 gens together, both of you deserve to escape.
Now, that might screw over the person who is being tunneled, but the main reasons why killers tunnel, is because no one can escape. Add the threat of people being able to escape, and killers have less reason to tunnel
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Ive just had 5 matches where I was the only one doing gens. Dont know why the others are so scared of gens. As soon as they hear the killers heart beat, they run and hide. So no, survivors are not a team even though they should be. Its everyone for themselves. Im sick of being other survivors leaving the Solo q survivors out to dry and do everything themselves.
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With the way perks are added it seems like selfish playstyles are more encouraged so I'm gonna say no
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It emulates real life, your connection to others only goes so far when playing with strangers.
It goes further when playing with friends or family.
So it’s a team game in that it requires a team effort to orchestrate a group escape but at any point someone could switch up to self preservation over team preservation.
How likely someone is to do that, is usually based on familiarity with their team, just like a real life crisis situation.
It’s kinda cool in that sense.
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Survivors used to be a team. Now they're just 4 chickens with their heads cut off, running around all over the place. Zzz...
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Be happy atleast your run. Mine tend to give up as i near them.
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🤣😂🤣😂😭
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Survivors are a team and they often win and lose as a team. How your teammates perform has a great effect on your chances of survival.
The scoreboard and MMR don't properly reflect it, that's all.
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That's mainly the reason why soloQ suck.
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Remember, when MMR works, your solo mates are just a mirror of yourself.
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i got no notification of your post. your suggestion is more specific but general layout of how keys worked was similar to old keys. hatch is bad design because hatch mechanic towards killer is rng mechanic for the killer where there is little consistency for the killer to control hatch escapes. Technically, you can memorize the hatch spawns location on every map to improve your consistency however the survivor can also do that.
let us imagine this scenario, The killer, hooks random number of times and he killed two survivors. There are two survivors remaining and say 3 gens have been completed. With your mechanic or dev old hatch mechanic with keys, The deciding factor whether killer wins or loses is based off whether survivor finds the hatch and both survivor jump through the hatch. It discounts anything the killer did precious to get into win position in order for survivor to still win. it does not make much sense for the killer player that worked hard to get into winning position to lose randomly. at that point, hatch is suppose to be more of closing to the match similar to end game collapse where your trying not lose as survivor and the killer will win the match. the only difference for him is how hard he wins which is why 3k and 4k is almost same thing in DBD. Its like, did you win ultra hard or just win? Same thing in the end. this another reason why kill-rates are misleading in dbd for killer because the killer can lose a bunch of times with 1-2 kills and also win bunch times with 4 kills even though 2 kills meant nothing and 4 kills made no difference in winning compare 3k.
This is why some players used to compare keys to mori's because they allowed survivor to "skip"' their generator objective similarly how mori's allowed you to skip the survivor's hook-states. Brand new parts that completed gens in 5 seconds were same story. that is in short why I do not like the items too much in dbd because they ended up being too game-changing.
TL:DR you definitely shouldn't be playing for win when the killer is in a winning position.
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Survivors aren't a team, but they aren't independent, either. You don't get a win for being the last surv alive, and without your team, you're almost as good as dead unless in endgame.
So much like the real world, you don't have to be tight with the people you are working with, but there is usually a fair bit of interdependency. The best predictor of you escaping is how well your team is doing.
When it works, absolutely. I have often said that if you find yourself in a bag of potatoes, you're almost certainly also a potato.
But lately, I don't think MMR has been working as intended, to say the least.
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