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Can we talk about killers for a sec?
I think the killers are weak.
Now, now, before you write something - hear me out.
I am a pretty experienced killer, Im good at loops, I know where everyone is constantly (thank you lethal pursuer), I usually score a hit on any chase, making sure they are short, I usually come out with 3k/4k. But when I bought Freddy, my games just became so much worse.
I started to think "What the hell, i'm literally doing the same thing as on other m1 killers, why am I losing? Freddy has teleports, which slow the gen progressing down, snares (or pallets), which make loops so much easier and shorter, and all the survivors are oblivious the whole game, yet I am still losing."
His teleports are useless since the animation is so long survivors are going to run aways making a 3km distance, you can fake, yeah, but 1) ~10 sec cooldown on tp afterwards, 2) Survivors are just going to continue doing the gen when they see you faked.
I thought that I'm just a noob on Freddy and I just dont understand his strenghts well, and then I equipped Pop Goes the Weasel...
So why? Why is Freddy so much stronger now? He is able to deliver pop literally to any gen if you manage to make a down and hook early. So that opened me eyes on the fact that the killer abilities are actually an assistance for perks. Isn't that supposed to be the other way around? Is there something I'm missing? Something I don't know about? And at that same time any Blight can kick asses only with an addon and no perks, and he is not even that hard of a character compared to nurse, while Pig needs to have 2 chase perks so that she can at least have a chance of winning a chase.
So why are most of the killers so dependant on perks? Are killers supposed to grind 2k hours to buy a character with a perk they need and they won't probably even play as that killer? Or buy them for real money? Don't even mention "shrine of secrets", I don't remember when was the last time something good was in there.
Killers are supposed to deal with boons, genrushing, healing, strong af medkits, flashies, chases, hooks, unhooks, their perks, a nice full discord survivor party. Why are certain killers so bullied? Patches aren't making that very easy as well, a 3rd healthstate? Seriously?
Maybe im just stupid and I dont understand something? Feel free to call me an idiot, just help me understand what's going on in this game, thanks in advance!
Comments
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Try tunneling fast and hard 90% of your problems will be solved as Killer
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Well thats true but ds, off the records, etc etc. + It's kinda boring.
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I mean... Survivors are also dependant on perks.
Perks are what makes the gameplay viable on both sides.
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It's more of Killers lack of good addons
And yes this game is perk based
And Killers have specific powers... and when you get used to their power perks are an afterthought
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Discord, one of the best detection perks in the game is literally in the shrine right now.
That aside, due to the fast gen meta survivors are using right now, Killers generally need to bring very strong slowdown perks to have a chance.
I suggest call of brine and overcharge combo for gen regression, discord or bbq as your information perk, and the last slot is free.
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It’s a bit of a myth that you need to bring strong gen slowdown. I’ve got a 70% kill rate at the moment and my most used loadouts on almost every killer have no gen slowdown. One loadout I’m having fun with for instance is Discordance to interrupt Prove Thyself attempts, Third Seal and Undying to negate Windows of Opportunity which is the most used survivor perk and other auras, and Fearmonger to negate Exhaustion perks. Then I just play like I normally do, making sure I don’t chase one survivor too long and keep the pressure spread and slug if if I think I can get more immediate value by chasing a new target, etc.
Mind you, I’m not saying slowdown perks aren’t good too. I’m just saying being good at the macro game to know how to naturally keep survivors off key objectives more efficiently is more important than your actual loadout.
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Okay, I think I got it then, thank you <3
Well, its nothing you can do if you are chasing one survivor and the other ones are on different gens, and in a next minute at least 2 will pop, right? It's still fascinating tho, good job.
You can play any survivor with default perks, but killers have powers, which means you need a specific perk to unlock a full potential of your power, like Freddy-Pop or Hag-Make Your Choice, etc.
Yeah, ik, but the text above was about "why do I need to own such perks to win", it is true that with specific perks your winrate will be better.
Well Freddy's power alone is kinda useless, don't you think so? If you are not going to deliver a pop or call of brine to the gen your tp to, that teleport literally means nothing, so it's actually mostly about perks, its not an afterthought (at least on some weaker killers).
Thanks for the answers tho, I think I now know how this game works a little better, love you all <3
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Just that easy, huh?
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Killers are weak, which is why they needed stuff like pre-nerf Pop/Pain Res to play catchup. The best examples of killer weakness is when you play M1 killers like Freddy or Pig, with or without perks. They have nothing for them in chase, so you're struggle to get a single down against good survivors. I don't allow myself to be fooled when I get 3ks and 4ks, because I'm reminded that those were given to me rather than earned, and that's a result of survivors having the advantage from the start. Top caliber or approaching top caliber survivors can just do the gens in the blink of an eye, and regardless of it they go down quick or not, you're not gonna be able to get them out of the game in time to play catchup. Remember, Prove Thyself and toolboxes were not touched, and new gen speed tools like Overzealous and Deja Vu were introduced.
It's so rough for killer, I literally don't try out new perks but for a few matches and on certain killers, because unless it's blatantly meta shifting like if we got a new Pain Res equivalent, it's probably not worth shoehorning into your build to see if it works or not. This mentality has crossed over to how I play survivor, not really testing out new/fun perks or builds. It's the price of being competitive.
When you play killer you either stop caring about losing, or you do everything you can to minimize your losses, which often times isn't enough. There's still too many broken loops for survivors on every map that have no gameplay for 90% of the killer cast. Quicker attack cooldown and 10-second longer gens didn't change any of this. The biggest downside of playing killer competitively is that you're constantly hit with gaslighting, virtue signaling, and skill questioning from the community. It takes guts to make posts like yours, truth be told.
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Problem is most people don't want to play competitively, and the ones that do don't really care if you are playing at the max of your abilities (hard tunneling, proxy camping, slugging), they will just answer by doing the exact same thing you are doing: Playing efficiently. And the problem is that this game just isn't designed to be played competitively, it has too many RNG elements to be considered remotely viable for competitive play, and the most efficient playstyles are very uninteractive.
Nothing is stopping you from playing the way you like and having a competitive mentality, if you just play "scummy" you will start noticing the differences on your kill rate. Just don't get mad when the other side also plays at the fullest of it's abilities.
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Yeah, the problem is that if you nerf certain loops so that m1 killers would be in a better position, you will make the other killers too strong on them. It's like they are from another game which doesn't have that problem, bhvr needs to do something about it, it's kinda unfair that some killers have to go through so much just to be able to play, thank you for your time <3
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Well it's not like I am a honorable knight who doesn't camp or slug or something, I just don't think it should be really necessary to win, since camping can be and mostly is boring, and some killers cant even deal with unhooks properly, so it's come to the very beginning - some killers are too weak in the places where others are not, and they still don't provide any unique strengths (not without perks).
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They don't want to play competitively, but somehow also want to speak on game balance. I get that the game has a lot of RNG, but I'm not for completely standardized maps like some people have suggested, because then you always know what to expect and it gets boring. I am for getting rid of crutch RNG stuff like 4%ing and hatch. It's funny that killers playing efficiently is always misinterpreted as scummy, but survivors being efficient never is. No, what I get mad about is getting called unsportsmanlike for playing to win. It still doesn't mean I can't get mad at how quickly and easily survivors can complete their objective compared to the killer.
Post edited by danielmaster87 on2 -
Bro unless you are getting tunneled by blight, nurse or spirit It's a you a problem. If you are getting hard tunneled from the getgo against a m1 killer pre throw the entire map and you will probably be the only one dead by the end. While the three I mentioned can eventually catch you in a spot where you don't make it to a pallet m1 killer's can't. I don't get the sentiment that tunneling = auto win because it's really not. You have to 1 be going against the top killers and 2 have teammates who are not doing gens. There is a reason pre throwing and w is the comp strategy, it works.
I am not defending tunneling just stating an obvious fact.
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The Problem as Killer is u Need Perks that Stop Gens to even has a Chance
I was playing Onryo whit only Stridor ( becasue of the Tome Challenge ) and i got destroyed becausei didnt had some Gen Defense
As a Survivor u still can Escape whitout perks when u are Good at looking and know the Map also u still have 3 teammates who also has perks
As a Killer u Need Slowdown Perks to have a Chance ( except u are Nurse whit a 1 shot Build )
The main Objects in DbD are Gens this why Gen Progression And Regression Perks are so powerful and Survivors know that this why Survivors always want to see Meta Gen Slowdown Perks to get nerfed
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Most killers have bad basekits (and most of time they also have bad addons exception of a few killers) so they have to rely good perks but even with perks good survivors can still easily beat them. Most of survivors complaining about killers but they are just a joke, a good survivor team can still beat most of killers easily.
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Yeah, that's true, survivors are annoyed when killers slug, but when they use 4 brand new parts it's an "efficiency", kind of sad, to be honest.
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Yeah.... my friend just got the game and he's wondering how he will ever get all the perks people tell others to run. It takes so much grinding to prestige every killer 3 times.
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I can't play m1 killers without save the best for last, try this perk it's a game changer and only reason m1 killers are not unbearable to play for me, current meta dead hard, OTR and BT all feed stacks it's very strong atm
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Another man who cares about Freddy? Thats really refreshing and nice. I will completely agree with you. However, Pig for example has huge slowdown, while Freddy has nothing. Its hard with him, especially now without slowdowns besides PR. Overcharge and CoB arent that huge of a deal.
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True but even Pig needs to get a down to make a slowdown work, thank god she doesn't have that crazy RNG like before.
Agreed 100% but even that didn't help Freddy :D
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Well, its nothing you can do if you are chasing one survivor and the other ones are on different gens, and in a next minute at least 2 will pop, right? It's still fascinating tho, good job.
Just to expand on this a bit, you’re not supposed to be able to reliably stop the first two or three generators from being finished early if the survivors are playing well. The game is built around the survivors having the advantage on getting gens done initially then the killer building up enough momentum and pressure that getting more than two survivors out at the end will be a close call. So the goal isn’t to stop them from popping two gens early, it’s to establish your territory you’ll be defending for the bulk of the game. By the time they have two gens done you want to have a hook, know the four gen area you’re planning to guard, and have hopefully done a bit of damage beyond that. Once you are in a cycle of being in a rough four gen with someone in a hook and someone else in chase and pallets being destroyed they naturally will be progressing a lot more slowly.
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If you think most pallets are safe that’s a you problem.
A lot of killers have powers to deal with loops, tunneling while proxycamping is very effective.
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Some killers are more dependent on perks and addons than others. It's nothing new really.
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I mean it certainly doesn't help that Freddy is one of the weakest killers in the game. Sadako and Trapper levels of bad.
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Makes sense, thanks.
"A lot of" is the key thing here, we are talking about killers which don't have them and are supposed to be bullied without good perks, which you obviously need time to acquire. Also there are maps that have a very small amount of unsafe pallets, it's not like there are 50% of safe pallets and 50% unsafe or smth.
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Pig has nothing just like Freddy until she gets a down. Even when she gets her slowdown going, the gens might be done before she gets to use all her traps, and they might get their head traps off in 1-2 attempts. It happens. Also YES, Overcharge/Call Of Brine are crazy overrated.
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You seem like your never happy with anything. "I have a beautiful wife and kids, I have a well-paying job and I live in a great house - but I know its all fake and I won't allow myself to be fooled by this happiness" Okay pal, good luck.
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You see Whatever you say people insult you it doesn't matter how polite you are They'll insult you the moment they hear the sentence=
Killers are Weak
This alone lets them insult you I've been in here for quite some time and if there's one thing i realized it's that both mods-devs-community members
Insult you because you say the facts
So if you want advice= Don't say the facts at any cost it doesn't worth it
I got banned for what? Getting insulted and literally defending myself and then the generous mod came to me and like *Please Don't Create BAIT Discussions*
Saying your idea is baiting in dbd dictionary
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The projection is outrageous, but expected.
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I never lose as Piggy with Videotape/Ruleset Nr. 2
This addon-combo is sick. Also Deadlock is the MVP-Perk on Piggy, if u dont use the Videotape.
I love the Amandas Letter-Gameplay (only with indoor Map-Offering) too.
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Might as well try that, thanks)
Well, they can insult me all they want, I'm not so easy to bait. If you want to discuss something from the game or argue with my point (this is what this forum is for, right?) - sure, if you are just gonna be like "Ur just bad lmao", then I'm going to ignore you, as easy as that.
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But you're talking about pink add-ons and Deadlock, probably the most reliable gen slowdown, not Pig running just any build. I feel that the majority of people think that since killers got a better attack cooldown and kick gens and pallets faster, all killers are suddenly playable and don't have to run their best builds all the time to compete. Even when you use Deadlock and Video Tape, you're gonna have a tough time with Pig, or you should anyway. If you're never losing with that, keep playing and you will.
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I dont play Pig that often, so I assume my MMR on Pig is not in highest levels.
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It's essential that you preface with that when talking about balance. If not, there's bound to be confusion. I could say that I usually 4k with Trapper when I play him, even though I haven't played Trapper regularly for like a year or 2. My MMR would be much lower with him, so I'd get easy survivors all the time, who lose to no gen defence/Infectious Fright Trapper.
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