Chase perks are not designed anywhere close to evenly for both sides.
I don't understand the design team at BHVR. Survivors are loaded with perks that reward them for either doing nothing at all or for losing. Dead Hard gives you distance for losing a chase. Resiliance, Lithe, Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Overcome, Adrenaline all give you free distance for free as a reward for doing literally nothing at all. Meanwhile killer chase perks are a complete joke, and there is not one killer chase perk that gives you value without some requisite, and that requisite is usually specific to the point of being useless. Crowd Control, Blood Favour, the survivors can remove these before the first chase even starts. Brutal strength saves less than half a second. Coup is extremely limited in charges and only activates by losing the game. Spirit Fury needs to be charged up by losing chases. NOED only activates when you've lost, and can be removed from the game before it does anything. Dissolution has a hit requirement, a delay, an extremely tight window and a visual warning ahead of time to the survivors. So why doesn't dead hard or adrenaline have a warning in advance for the killer so they can play around it and negate it entirely? Imagine the outrage if killer had a perk where pressing E after a missed swing instantly downs the survivor that outplayed you, or if entering a chase gave you more than double speed for a few seconds automatically. Sounds like a joke, but that's the way the game is the other way around. Why is it designed like this?
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Dead Hard was reworked a cpl months ago and no longer gives distance. Also killers chase basekit got buffed too in the same update - faster blood-lust, less cooldown on basic hits, survivors get less distance after being hit (so yes, survivor chase perks are especially a must), and also faster pallet kicks. The devs have certainly helped killers in chase.
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The answer: Because in a 1v1 the survivor is weaker, so perks exist to give the survivor a bump and help them out. (With a lot of them, like exhaustion perks, that bit of help usually doesn't last very long; the perk offers a chance.)
Killers are faster. They have powers. They can take the survivor out of the match permanently.
The killer is supposed to be a threat. However, if the person playing killer is struggling a lot, then the match is going to be pretty damn boring for survivors. The killer offering a challenge is the point of the game. So, perks like NOED and Coup and Spirit Fury exist to help the killer and give them a boost when they're theoretically failing. Most aren't that strong because the killer is already stronger overall. (Getting value out of end game perks and Coup also requires letting the match get to the end game rather than the killer slaughtering the survivors in seconds, and BHVR does prefer that to everyone being dead a minute into the match. That's why they keep trying to nerf camping and tunneling, and why Bloodpoint caps and emblems are based around dragging the match out with 12 hooks rather than 1-hooking everyone.)
Is all this stuff well balanced? I'd say not. But that's the reason behind the perk design.
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Dead hard gives way more distance than a little dash now. Do you think a perk that makes survivors take no damage when not exhausted would be fair? Because that's all it is, especially with the cheater epidemic running rampant and auto dead hards in many games. That's not even mentioning how it now completely negates the powers of some killers. Trickster loses all laceration on a DH when he didn't before, Victor now enters a hit CD and therefore can be immediately kicked, Artist loses swarm on that survivor, Hillbilly's chainsaw is ended, blight and nurse get a longer hit cooldown. It was buffed a lot more than it was nerfed, and where it only felt a little like a free win as a reward for losing before, that feeling is tenfold now. DH on its own in the current state it is is almost enough to never want to play anything other than Slinger or Blood Echo plague just to make it go away. Why does a perk that can completely kill the entire fun of a match, not to mention one that potentially buys minutes of chase time as a reward for LOSING THAT CHASE need to remain in the game? It's just ridiculous.
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Killers have more and better chase perks than survivors. You're complaining about nothing.
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While anti-chase anything is extremely frustrating to face as survivor, as it leaves them feeling like everything is a lose-lose...
I would agree with the sentiment that chase builds are the weakest of any build type a killer could run.
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Survivor chase perks are fine. I wouldn't have said that with the abomination that pre 6.1 Dead Hard was but I don't see anything to complain about now including post 6.1 Dead Hard.
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If killers had objectively stronger chase perks than survivors, what depth would this game have?
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Not really. For example, there's no chase perks that cause exhaustion, because those are reserved to ones that require survivors to work on gens or be injured already. Aura reading perks like I'm All Ears are only helpful and mindgameable loops, unlike jungle gyms, shack, and the Macmillan/Coldwind long wall pallet tiles that you can see over. There have been attempts to make good chase perks, but like Furtive Chase, they always fall flat.
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Name one perk stronger than DH.
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I don't think that's the problem. My issue is that survivors don't have to think or earn the value from extremely powerful chase perks, but killers do. I would have no issue with something like dead hard if it had an appropriate activation condition, or a downside to using it incorrectly. (And not getting your free health state for mistiming it isn't a downside, that's just what is supposed to happen.)
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Because killers are naturally stronger in chase. Just imagine a Bubba with Sprint Burst.
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Wow, bro, you surely got a lot of salt bottled up. Its ok, let it all out ... but you really need to calm down a bit. I was one of the biggest opponents of old DH, ran some of the builds centered around fighting old DH (Septic Touch/Blood Echo) a lot and even changed my name to Anti Deadhard Alliance and tried to educate survivors on the errors of their ways, BUT new DH is an awesome perk and does not deserve this kind of hatred.
Yes, old DH was the plague incarnate and shall burn in hell for all eternity, but BHVR managed to do both: do away with the aspects of it that totally killed the fun of playing killer AND not nerfing it into oblivion. There are still survivors that think that it lost all its power, but thats non-sense. In the MMR region were I play my survivors use it a lot, not as much as befor, but by now its back to the most used exhaustion perk that I face, for the reason alone that it gives you a chance to get away when you are most vulnerable, ie wounded and out in the open/out of position. No other perk has a chance on demand, but this is balanced by how small the window of opportunity (heh) to use it right is.
I still get bamboozled all the time by survivors suddenly turning tail and running straight at me with the DH activated, but more often then that I see that coming and just let them die on the floor half a second later. During chases you can actually bait it out in a meaningful way, but you don`t have to give every survivor at least 3s of bonus chase time just because you are afraid of getting Dead-Harded.
Killers are probably in the best spot they have ever been and its the soloQ players spot now, who are in the most dire need of some love from BHVR, so dont sweat that much and just enjoy the game :) It all begins in your head.
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Windows of Opportunity.
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bad bait
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Your mileage my vary, but Windows of Opportunity has so much going for it: while working on a gen it shows you all the windows and paletts in the vicinity and allows you to preplan an escape route. It also shows were the action is happening when suddenly palettes are dropped and you can run a killer like clockwork for what feels like hours on end. And you can use the perk without getting wounded or while wounded, doesn`t matter.
When playing killer you definitely feel it when a survivor is running that perk: they lead you to a palette, drop it on your head and are off to the next one, possible through an awkward window without any downtime or even splitsecond of hesitation.
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All Windows does is let players unfamiliar with a map loop. I don't think I've seen it maybe ever at high mmr, because survivors only want to run perks that give them free wins.
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If you're not seeing 2-3 WoO combined with 2-3 DH every game, you're not high MMR.
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I mostly get SWFs with 3-4 DH, and SWFs don't need windows.
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I disagree with him completely, but you somehow made me disagree with you even more. Like, yeah, he is definitely wrong. But you are Hella Hella wrong. Exhaustion perks are absolutely stronger than killer chase perks, other than perhaps Bamboozle. And it SHOULD be that way. The game would not be functional if your statement was true.
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Weird - Seems to be quite popular in my games and all the metric sites.
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Maybe because killers have such an ultimate second chance in chase as bloodlust
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Statistically, Nurse is the worst killer. The metrics don't really inherently mean anything.
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even worse bait
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Having the lowest kill rate =/= being the worst killer.
People often misinterpret that.
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He’s right though. Using your logic, the killer is getting a speed boost for doing nothing.
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OP's 100% correct and this thread is full of people who have never touched killer and therefore assume Bloodlust is some magic "you win after X seconds" because they don't know all the many, many ways to stop bloodlust from building or cause it to instantly drop to zero.
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Spending 30+ seconds camping a loop while gens get done isn't nothing. If you get a hit or break a pallet or use any power even slightly you lose it, too. This is the equivalent of needing to run for 35 seconds without vaulting a window or dropping a pallet or 360ing or dropping through a hole or having another player bodyblock or anything else to be able to sprint burst - that is, if sprint burst was a 13% movement speed bonus, and not the 150% that it is. That's it. That's all you get. And many killers can't get bloodlust due to needing to use their power to chase. Terrible bait.
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Yes, that's my point. Windows having a high usage rate doesn't make it good.
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Windows being good makes Windows good, though.
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The difference is, it's a perk. There's horrible perks out there that are never used, if WoO wasn't good it wouldn't be one of the highest used perks. You can CHOOSE a perk you can't choose the players.
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Self care is also one of the highest used perks. Usage rates at all ranks are going to skew to weird places, and Windows is a great perk for new and solo players. It isn't powerful, it doesn't even actually do anything. It's just there to make up for not having experience and a swf for the same result. It's a good perk, but it doesn't actually have any effect on the gameplay, and especially not other people's gameplay. Dead hard gives you a third health state every 60 seconds, as a reward for failure. Windows helps you to avoid failure, and doesn't benefit you unless you can actually loop. Dead hard specifically rewards you for failing to loop. It's really not even comparable.
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Yeah, killers do needs better chase perks to end the faster. I've said crowd control doesn't need to be a hex. That's would prevent survivors from being able to loop killers for too long already. Even the killers powers aren't all good for that.
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'preplan'... When else are you going to plan? Afterwards?
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The killer has weaker chase perks cause they have their strength in chase by base.
Their power
If killers should have equally strong chase perks as survivors then survivors should by base also get a chase power
Also you're idea of losing a chase is pretty weird. When you get stunned by a pallet you still took a recourse out of the game. That's not a lost chase
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Even if
im an absolute sucker for killer chase perks
Especially brutal and Fire up mmmmm
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dude that IS the downside lmfaoo. Dead hard is easily out baited with its short activation and it’s definitely not “mindless”. All I see is you crying on here. Maybe just take a step back and go practice for a couple weeks. You seem quite new to the game and don’t really fully grasp the mechanics/reasons behind things. you’re obviously heavily killer biased and more than half of the things you say are just flat out incorrect. It’s best for you to go practice both sides for a while
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Gonna have to agree. Windows never leaves me anymore. My standard build is Windows of Opportunity, Lithe, Distortion, and a flex perk. Usually Spine Chill, but sometimes Prove Thyself or Circle of Healing. Windows is amazing information. What pallets are left unused, what areas are complete dead zones, and whether or not you can chain two to three tiles together that you're just now seeing for the first time since the trial started. You already know that next to shack is a TL with a jungle gym after that you can string all together for a nasty loop. And all of that during a Dredge's nightfall in a part of the map you haven't been to yet. It's disgustingly powerful. I'd even be in favor of part of the cooldown coming back it's so nasty strong.
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Lolol, gotcha :D I bamboozled myself again, thats a specialty of mine. What I sorta mean is, that while working on a gen you can plan your escape route in leisure and with no pressure at all, contra planing it on the run when the killer is breathing down your neck, but yeah: bamboozle is very effective against mu brain. Cheers.
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