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Should the match be over if there are 2 survivors dead and the gens arent finished
So over the last little while I have seen many posts complaining about various situations around this topic and i think i have come up with the solution.
If 2 survivors are dead and the gens have not been completed, the game ends, the entity sacrifices the last 2 survivors in disgust for being unable to complete their objective, and the killer wins.
This would solve many complaints, no more hide and seek hatch standoffs holding the game hostage, no more slugging for the 4k, no more trolling Teammates to try and get hatch, people would have to start doing gens instead of hiding in the corner.
Comments
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The killer winning by default in this spot is too much, may as well delete the hatch while you're at it.
If the killer could end the game early in these spots rather than suffer a long search for hiding survivors when they don't have Whispers, I'd be all for that. The remaining survivors could get a consolation prize of 3k bloodpoints or something.
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So we cut down the Killer Objective by half? Just like that? Tunnel two Survivors out and you win?
Lol.
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So basically to get a 4k you just need to 2k?
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I think if there are only 2 people left and the exit gates aren't powered. If a person is left slugged for 20-30 seconds, the hatch should spawn. Slugging for the 4k takes very very little brain power, and it is universally hated by every single survivor player. It needs a change.
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Is this even worth commenting on?
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I think its not a great idea. It is borring to search the last two thats true and its also borring to hide and wait until the other mate is dead (Sry Cloudette Mains if I attack your playstyle), but if you give the Killer an instant win would result in many other problems. As Aven_Fallen has allready say the new KIller meta to win would be tunnel one tunnel two win or basement bubba just needs two camps to win. If you do this you stealing bothe sides bloodpoints and some Challages in the tomes arent able anymore or more anoying for Killer and Survivor. Solo que will get even more anoying, because most of the time they dont play as a team. Also some Archivments arent able anymore like Kill all four Survivors with Myers at T3. As borring as it could be sometimes. The system should stay as it is right now.
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Oh the joys of, 2 people died now the game instantly ends, where's the fun in that? people also complain about just losing in general, you could complain about anything, doesn't mean it's an issue
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You know the sad thing about this post?
I'd take it in a heartbeat over the status quo.
2 survivors left is one of the most boring games in existence (especially if they have barely been hooked yet). Every now and then I've had a great experience at two, though it usually involves finishing a gen pretty soon after the 2nd survivor is eliminated. However, far more frequently it turns into an absolute slog of boredom.
I do think there are a lot of fixes that could be made though. I think an simple idea would be just to speed things up. Survivors can fix gens a lot faster, but to compensate for this the killer also gets a speed boost. There are a lot of possible solutions, but something should change. 2 survivors left should not take as long as the rest of the game, which sadly happens all too frequently.
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No. There's still potential to win. 1 survivor can loop a very long time against most killers, giving the other time to finish the gens, and soon 1 or both of them can escape.
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That would be a very lazy solution to the issue that a match is in effect over once only two survivors are left. True, it would cut down the time people are stuck in an already decided match - but it's about as unhealthy for the game as can get as various people have already pointed out.
Imo, more to the point would be to advance the idea of "assymetrical" atm it's very static: the only state it takes into account is the 4v1 starting point. The fewer survs there are the more disproportionally powerful the killer gets. At the same time, however, there is no "either 4e or 4k" mechanic in terms of game outcomes. So, imo, a match needs to rebalance itself based on how many survivors there are so that both sides always have a fighting chance (e.g. slight buffs for killers as long as 4 survs are still there and slight buffs for survivors as soon as there are less than four).
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escaping through the hatch also needs very little brain power, and it's also universally hated by killers, so it doesn't need to change. See? Simple as that
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Honestly it would be great if the game just ended then, the killer slugging for the 4k is just boring and theres like a 0.01% chance of winning at this point, I usually just let the killer find me
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I admit, I’m not a fan of the two survivor endgame, it’s kind of anticlimactic. I think it mainly has to do with my general feeling that midmatch player elimination causes issues, including this two player endgame slump. Unfortunately we’re stuck with player elimination, but if it were being done from scratch I’d have gone with something more like how the official DbD boardgame works where survivors aren’t killed midmatch but instead hooks build up sacrifice tokens and once the killer amasses, say, 10 tokens they win the match. That would keep all five players in the match the whole game which would have keep the endgame from stalling out (plus mitigate people wanting to ragequit on the first down and such.)
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i dont think this is the solution. my idea of a fix for 2man endgames would be having a form of egc start thats reset when objectives are being worked on so killers dont get held hostage (like a minute and a half where if a gen hasnt been touched and noone is on hook or downed then both survivors get deleted). im not sure if this would be a good fix, but i think itd be better than what it is now
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No, cause the game is still winnable and doing gens/chases/etc even in a hopeless situation is still fun.
There does need to be an in game mechanic to prevent survivors from taking the game hostage though.
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That's a great idea - for killing what's left of solo q.
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Yeah that ain't it, sorry. Addressing the efficiency potential of 1/2/3/4 alive to be closer together (read: 3 alive being the base value, with 1/2/4 being squished toward that value) would be a healthier way to address the issue as well as the ones that cause it to happen in the first place. Make killers feel less need to get 1-2 out asap, and make survivors feel less hopeless as people die. Which things would be changed to suit those ends is its own conversation, but that direction is a lot more healthy than rewarding hard tunneling even more.
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Nah, maybe the hatch should spawn at 2 but it doesn't open without a key until 1 survivor remains. IDK but 2 man end game is ruining the game. Most of the time the person im left with doesn't want to fight to the finish they rather just wait until i die, which i do because instead of hiding i'm doing gens. Maybe give crows to people who aren't interacting with things. Something needs to change though.
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Should the game be over before it's over? Absolutely not.
It might be a freak outlier but I have turned a game like this around before.
2 man SWF plus what we assune was another 2 man SWF against Clown on Lerys.
Clown got decent early game pressure and after some poor hook rescues turning into hook trades from the other survivors, one died on hook and the other DC'd.
Me and my friend continued, each completed a gen shortly after the other two left the game then proceeded to play semi-immersed so that we could evade the Clown and gradually work on gens. Got caught eventually but ran the killer, and even escaped a couple chases, buying each other time to do gens, and we escaped.
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Hatch escape should be impossible if more than one person is alive.
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Well i'm tired of games that should've already ended going on 10-20 minutes longer because 1 survivor wants the hatch and the killer wants a 4k. I'm guessing you haven't been in a 3 gen scenario where the killer can just prevent gens from getting completed at all, will not let you bleed out and will just carry you around unless you wiggle out down right refusing to let you die or hook you, together with your last remaining team member both holding you hostage.
while I understand that isn't very often it shouldn't happen at all.
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It’s the survivors’ fault for getting 3-genned in the first place though. They should be doing gens. If the killer and other survivor is doing what you said, that’s reportable anyways. A hard time limit on the match would be good though. If it runs out, everyone dies and the game ends. Eg, 30m.
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I can't control what gen's my team does in soloq, soloq is a mess right now. 30 minutes is too long, 15 should be the max.
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When the game is down to two survivors, they can start getting crows if they aren’t repairing generators for at least X seconds every Y minutes. The crows can start going away if they repair a generator for a few seconds. The crows will completely go away if they are in a chase for a few seconds.
BHVR told us they wanted solo q survivors to feel more like a team, but the hatch mechanic and MMR systems give a “every survivor for themselves” attitude. BHVR even gave survivors multiple perks to make it easier to hide all game and try to escape as the last person. And adding survivor icons or voice chat won’t fix that. In fact, adding voice chat to solo q would probably just cause the last two survivors to yell at each other because both of them want to hide so the other survivor can die.
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They should add more Gens on the map. Right now they are adding Hooks nearly every 2 meters, so it would also makes sense to guard more gens. So 2 guys actually can sit on gens.
Also if survivors have many gens left and 2 are dead (or 3), then the remaining survivor should get a "hope" bonus. Like you repair generators faster, you can also safe without being grabbed etc.
That would lead to more open survivors.
The problem right now is, 2 survivors is not lost. But at 4 gens, you cant do much. Especially with a fast killer.
Killer wanted endgame buffs, were they are the weakest. Many perks deactivate in endgame for survivors now.
Now i want survivor buffs like this, were they are the weakest. Its only fair.
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just because you give up when 2 survivors are dead, doesn't mean it's over. I've won multiple games (WITHOUT abandoning the other survivor) when there was still 4-5 gens to do.
All goes down to the 2nd person you're left with to not give up either.
I've had super cracked loopers hold killer for the entirety of me doing all gens solo, I had my moments where i managed to hold killer that long too.
There's ALWAYS hope.
Games like that are not a rarity, considering that survivors after the perk patch are freaking cowards and DC on first down. Most of the games now are either 3v1 or 2v1, just get a grip and stop giving up
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To be honest, this AFK Crow feature is not good. Why punish survivors even more if they have a hard time? Instead they should get to the core issue and buff them, when for example only 2 are left.
Lore wise, it would also makes sense. The entity feeds on hope, not on totally death.
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Be serious.
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yes, let’s reward the side for losing
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Should the match be over if all 4 survivors are alive and all 5 gens are done?
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I think we need time limit for trials. Let's say 25 minutes. But the problem is with that, who will win if both sides don't complete their objectives.
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The funny part is, the same could be applied for a killer who didnt got kills and now the exit gates are open. Why reward killer for losing? I want my off the record and other perks activated. Since the killer lost.
See? Its not a lose.
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Noed has been doing it since 2016.
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Not true, fail hope is fun, hopeless is not.
Dont you tell me 1 hook and 5 Gen done, a hopeless situation for killer, is still fun?
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The only way it would go that long is if the generators still didn’t end (since Endgame Collapse would end the game in 2/4m). The generators were failed to be fully completed, so the survivors would die. If that’s really such an issue, it could become a null match that doesn’t count either way for MMR.
The game isn’t over until everyone is dead or out. If it was over when gates were open and no one is dead yet, that would instantly end the game. A near guaranteed uncounterable escape is illogical and was thus made unavailable. Yes, 2 being dead before gens are done is not explicitly a loss and can be survivable by both of them, which would make it a draw. But it means the killer did excessively better than them. Rewarding a side for doing badly is stupid.
The actual equivalent example would be a basekit addition where if gates are open and no one is death hook or dead, gates are blocked for a period and all survivors become Exposed and Mori’able so the killer has a stupid high chance to make a comeback after being stomped.
Just cause something is stupid doesn’t mean a second thing should also be stupid.
I find every game fun no matter what regardless of side, result, or build. I genuinely enjoy DBD.
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LMAO
So the game becomes a toss-up between which two people get hardcore tunneled out of every match?
Don't deny it, we know damn well if such a fantasy were to come true, most killers would go for that 2k tunnel and you can wave bye bye to the remaining survivors.
Silliest suggestion I have heard this week.
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You people are never satisfied with anything...
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Survivors already have a pity escape chance with hatch, and another pity escape chance with the gates if hatch is closed. How many additional pity escape chances do you want for survivors to have? At some point, we have to accept the fact that if the survivors are being outplayed and have no hope of completing their objectives, they should be losing the game.
Alternately, if a survivor gets a pity escape, it should count as a win for the killer. I wouldn't care as much about pity escapes if they didn't affect my MMR.
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Then take the L and move on. The same can be said for killers going for a 4k, except the fact they had to kill 3 other people to get to that point (2 if 2 survivors are waiting for each other to die) and even then a lot of them would still rather just let one go than waste all that time in a boring hide and seek match. Hatch concessions are 50% wanting to let people go, 50% not being as committed to holding the other side hostage in response to them holding you hostage. The hatch doesn't even count as a win for a reason, its a draw, a participation trophy.
People overvalue surviving through hatch just as much as they overvalue getting a 4k vs a 3k. You're all boring and you're made for each other.
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Maybe you should also escape that killers aren't supposed to 4k every game?
Technically its 2 escapes and 2 deaths. Which is a draw, which is the balanced state. Which i still think is the dumbest thing MMR is doing anyway.
It can happen very fast that 1 survivor is giving up or disconnecting and the other is tunneled out.
And sorry, hard force tunneling or camping isnt a sign of a good killer. Hatch is also not, but the point is that people keep playing.
Proofing the point already is the long queues Killers have... i guess they will get longer.... and longer...
Issues need to be adressed.
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No obviously not.
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I don't slug for the 4k, and i think it is a waste of time and agree it should be fixed. However, what is worse is getting the 2k, there's 3-4 gens left, and both survivors just hide forever and won't progress the game. I'm not trying to slug for the 4k, i just want to get 1 of them out so we can spawn the hatch and the game can end one way or another. This can be particularly bad on some maps where the survivors can just hide forever. I think that if you don't so something to progress the game after a really long time, like 3 minutes, you should start getting crows.
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If the killer is being seriously outplayed, should the game auto kill two of them so the game is a "balanced" draw?
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I mean, that's why you should be the one to break the 3 gen right away
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You can give the survivors the full 40k BP for all I care. Just let me surrender out of that hostage situation. I do not want to waste my time searching for rats. Yes, I said it. Ban me if it is too much for your poor little heart.
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Calm down. I agree with you.
I'd sacrifice my own bloodpoints to escape this situation as well. Sometimes I even experience internet connectivity issues in these spots after a couple of gen patrols (they remain untouched) because I know finding the hiders and ending the game normally can often take longer (much longer) than the 5 minute penalty.
It annoys me to no end because when I play survivor I don't do this. I get caught on a gen and have 1 last chase with the killer before the Entity takes me and I can go next.
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One set of doors should open automatically but survivors are not notified of which one and all survivor auras should be revealed to the killer for 30 seconds. Normal EGC conditions apply such as no DS/ Noed activates if brought as a perk.
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So you want to make the game super killer sided just tunnel 2 guys ignore the other 2 and you win.
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If the doors are open and no one is hooked sure why not.
I mean thats kinda the point and already happens doesnt it.
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The match shouldn’t be over while a chance of comeback exists no matter how small.
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