The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Hot take - Dead Hard is just as good if not better than it was before

Hear me out, I just want to start this off by saying that Dead Hard in it's current state is a lot HEALTHIER as a perk for the game state as a whole. If given the choice between the two, I would take current Dead Hard over what was in the game just a few patches ago. With that being said, I am 100% willing to die on the hill that new Dead Hard is still insanely strong and I would not be surprised if given enough time it once again falls into the crosshairs of BHVR's balancing department for yet another rework due to public outcry.

There are certain instances where the perk does still live up to its original use as a sort of pseudo third health state, let me give a few examples. Let's say that you're at a basic loop, you can be whichever side you want, just picture your average loop. Looping starts as normal whatever, average DbD experience, cue the Benny Hills theme. When both the Killer and Survivor at at a point where they are under the pallet (or I guess the killer is close enough to score a hit while the Survivor runs under the pallet) the Survivor Dead Hards. This situation goes one of two ways, the killer hits the survivor, they enter deep wounds and gain a speed boost or, the killer doesn't swing and the survivor drops the pallet forcing the killer to break it, but the chase is extended.

In that scenario, is the perk not accomplishing what it did before? Albeit this time it actually requires input and timing on a Survivor's end instead of just *insert funny markiplier E meme here*. It's definitely a lot less egregious and I do find myself saying "nice dead hard" when it happens (something that never would have happened a few months ago I assure you) . However, while this covers specific instances of the perk being used, I do still believe that the perk does also accomplish what it did before, being allowing you to override certain killer powers.

I know that sounds absolutely ludicrous, because before Dead Hard allowed you to dodge over trapper traps, eat Victor Pounces, dodge Doctor's shock waves and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting. Obviously none of the things I just mentioned happen anymore, but if I told you now the perk effectively did the same thing for other killers, I know I'd probably be immediately crucified for suggesting as such.

However, I do however completely believe this as such, threat of crucifixion or not. I'm going to take the killer that I personally feel suffers from this the most, because it is in my opinion the most extreme example and the one that best backs up my argument. That killer being Pyramid Head. As I'm sure all of you are aware, Pyramid Head has a special attack that goes through walls to damage Survivors. Survivors are shown where his attack is going by a giant glowing rectangle that shows exactly where his attack will be. In a chase with a Pyramid Head, a Survivor that finds themselves standing in the rectangle, no longer has to worry about dodging it at all, they can simply press E and gain the endurance effect because of the nature of Pyramid's attack. This is a third health state. Clear and simple.

If you don't believe me, test it out yourself in a KYF match. Grab a buddy, one play Pyramid Head the other play Survivor, and then just press E in the rectangle if you find yourself standing it. Of course this doesn't just apply to Pyramid Head. Most killers with any sort of anti chase ability find themselves suffering from this, with the exception of Deathslinger, Pinhead, Trickster (to an extent), Spirit and Nurse (you'd have to have the reaction time of a god to pull off a Dead Hard when they blink or phase right on top of you), and Trapper. Everyone else doesn't get that luxury (although I could not be seeing certain killers for what they're worth).

Clown for instance suffers from Dead Hard because the intoxicated animation overrides the Dead Hard one, making it very hard to know if you've baited it out or not. Any sort of mid ranged attacker suffers immensely as well. Demo, Victor, Wesker, and Artist all can effectively have to chew through three health states a chase if the Survivor they're playing against can react to their powers.

With all of this being said, I'm not calling for a nerf or a change to the perk. I simply wanted to point out some things I have noticed with this version of the perk that I think with enough time, some people could really see as problematic or frustrating to play against. I personally prefer this version of Dead Hard, but I still feel like it brings a new set of problems to the table.

Comments

  • TheGentlemen
    TheGentlemen Member Posts: 198
    edited September 2022

    Dead Hard will always be a good perk for extending chase basically, but better than old 'for distance' dead hard that could save you at any loop, save you from trapper traps, save you from doctor shock, etc.?

    Don't know all about that. Even with the points you provided.

    Edit: the new Dead Hard isn't 'bad' in my opinion at all, but I do think it's a lot more niche and worse in comparison, the activation window is very tiny now and it's very easy to punish.

    Dead Harding at a pallet is still something that is annoying, and of course auto dead hard is insanely popular today.

    But still. I don't see how new Dead Hard is anywhere near old Dead Hard.

  • Peppa_Pigsaw
    Peppa_Pigsaw Member Posts: 185

    Old dead hard allowed you to dash over trapper traps and could even negate doctor shocks if timed correctly. Not new dead hard, it doesn't have the i-frames the old version did.

  • woodenEnthusiasm
    woodenEnthusiasm Member Posts: 160

    I wouldn't call it a hot take. Behavior said they didn't want it to be third health state so they did the reasonable thing and made it into a third health state. Latency aside it's not hard to time it. Souls like games have much smaller reaction times and players very consistently land those. Add in auto dead hard scripts and hey suddenly it's just better dead hard.

    I'm partially glad its changed. But frankly it should have had a total rework. There is no way to make current dead hard healthy or fun

  • TheGentlemen
    TheGentlemen Member Posts: 198

    Yeah, I'm referring to old Dead Hard that allows you to go through traps. I know the new one doesn't. That's the whole point of my post, how can the new one be better/just as good as the old one with those factors?

    Especially since it could save you from any loop known to man practically.

  • Peppa_Pigsaw
    Peppa_Pigsaw Member Posts: 185

    I think it still retains it's strength as a perk, it just requires different aspects of it to play out in your favor now. The example I gave at the pallet could in theory happen at any loop really. It just has a much smaller margin of error. The perk demands more input from its user, but I don't think that necessarily makes it weaker.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    It's significantly more healthy for the game than old DH, but is still a really strong perk when used well. Don't have much of a problem with it myself, though you can't really claim it's as strong as it used to be because it blatently is weaker.