scary,,,hatch,,,must,,waste,,time

I compare it to survivors standing at the exit gates until the last second just to waste my time to bag me or show oh lookie i won.

I dont slug for 4k but yeah..both sides are very good at being annoying.

Just some musings...

I understand the wisdom of the hatch, ie if a killer is really snowballing and kills off one survivor at 4 gens remaining, there is no real chance that the survivor's will regularly win this and the hatch let's them play on, because it is a sliver of hope that everyone can clinge to.

But why don't killers have a sliver of hope mechanic? Like when the survivors are utterly dominating and they got just 1 or 2 hooks, no one on death hook, all gens done. The killer got no hope in such a scenario, no actual reason to go on.

So how about a special mori that activates once the exit gates are powered when no survivor is on death hook: the next survivor downed can be moried. Simple as that. Would that be considered unfair? Or unfun? Up until this the survivors obviously had their fun.

"That would be rewarding the killer for failing" - fair enough... but then, isn't the hatch doing the same? Rewarding survivors for failing?

"Killers are already strong enough. No need to boost them further. " - fair enough. But would a system like this really be a boost? It would be more like an anti frustration or hope mechanic, just like the hatch.

Because killer players need that 4k to sleep good at night.

It’s not exactly the same thing - unless the killer is prolonging the slug beyond when someone ordinarily would bleed out. A survivor can locker hop indefinitely.

It's exactly the same thing. Both sides are 'doing the objective' to the most efficient way. Killers are trying to get kills, survivors are trying to survive against increased insurmountable odds where doing gens is no longer the best solution.

Constantly trying to excuse one act as more permissable than the others, especially when there is a very clear cause-effect correlation at play, is a massive issue when both eventualities are boring and need addressing.

What I said above still stands, if you don't like 'wasting your time' then stop slugging and camping for an easy win... because survivors are getting wise and you're not getting it anymore. You're the architect of your own frustration.

Hook the survivor and allow a chance of 'normal play' to continue.

If a survivor is delaying for hatch, they already lost the game. I am a very strong supporter of the efficiency cap of survivors being adjusted to make them weaker with more people while having more of a chance with less, but the fact of the matter is that the hatch does not spawn until the killer has won. They have gotten 3 kills and therefore they no longer have the potential of a loss or draw, while the hatch exists specifically to rob them of the 4th. Many killers adapted by just not caring about the 4th, but that doesn't mean that the mechanic itself doesn't rely on pity either from the killer or the entity.

You don't win through hatch, it is regarded as a draw. If the hatch is in play your only way to win is to get a gate escape after it has been closed, which can be harder or easier depending on the RNG involved with the exit gates.

The reason this is important is because it has to do with the prioritization of outcomes: The killer deserves the 4th kill far more than the survivor deserving the hatch in almost all cases, since the survivor could have used their agency to attempt to distract the killer and keep their team alive more. People need to understand that losing because you couldn't carry hard enough is different from losing because your team was bad, and mechanics like the hatch and its many wonderful standoff variations over the years are a pretty clean example of mechanics that prevent that disambiguation.

And before people take any of that out of perspective to try to dress it up to attack, no, I don't think that no survivor ever plays better than their outcome, nor that every killer who enters a hatch situation deserves the 4th kill 100% of the time. I'm talking about the mechanic purely from a game design standpoint, and going off of what had to happen to get there. Since the hatch has absolutely no requirements to earn it, it will forever be a charity and not a reward. Its just another case of people refusing to accept the factors that got them to that point, regardless of how much or little control they had over them.

Edit: I should also mention that obvious outliers like cheaters or people ragequitting ruining the game for their allies obviously are exceptions to all of this, since I feel like those kinds of outliers are obviously part of the 100% of the time exceptions but I didn't specify them, leading to attempts at gotcha comments to try to discredit the rest. But for the record, yes, there are going to be games that are still unfair based on this assessment.

scary....killler....must....wait...for....hatch...in....the.... locker

By the way, it's not the killer wasting time in that case, if the survivor is hiding instead of doing objectives like gens or helping out teammates it's on them, they are wasting time. The killer is doing his job.

I agree with that whole heartedly and it really annoys me when there are two of us uninjured left in the trial and one decides not to bother doing anything, usually when there is one gen left to do.

Except we aren't talking about two survivors 'just hiding and not doing gens'. We are talking about one survivor who refuses to be downed in a trap the killer has chosen to lay for them and has chosen to waste their own time by doing so. We are talkng about one survivor whom the killer is hunting directly and so evading them is part of the normal ganeplay. I doubt BHVR had this situation in mind, let alone how prevalent it is, when writing their rules. The killer refusing to hook someone for an extended period of time, leaving them down, could also be seen as refusing to participate in normal play, for example..

Like I said earlier, if you hook someone, rather than leave them down, the vast majority of the time someone will come in for the rescue because they see it as morenfair and make the assumption the game can continue relatively fairly. You coipd heal and do gens again. What happens if you try and save a downed survivor 3? You get downed and they chase survivor 3 again, down them again cause theyre injured or you just repeat the process ad infinitum until one of you dies. Like i said it may be valid, but its boring and needs addressing. Just as Dead Hard was boring and needed adressing despite being valid.

You can't blame survivors for not wanting to walk directly into an almost unavoidable trap after potentially working hard to survive all trial.

I don’t know why people think the survivor is obligated to give killers an easy kill They are literally the survivor. The entitlement, and irony, is insane.

Eveey time ive come into this thread ive said this needs addresing for both sides. This isn't about 'oh the killer should give me the hatch'. This is about ensuring a fun and fair experience for both sides for as much of the trial as possible. As the dead hard nerf proved, just because its 'valid' doesn't mean it doesn't need review when it becomes overused.

So funny when this happens and then the hatch spawns right under the slug!

You can achieve the same result without making someone bleed out on the floor for 4 minutes. Hook the survivor, wait for unhook, get them both, or find them with BBQ.

Lucky hatch spawns don't happen as often as you think.

Imagine being so pressed over one kill in a non-ranked game.

I understand playing for 4k, but using a lazy a.s strategy can't possibly be satisfying.

I just straight up said that windows gains more value in good hands than beginner ones, and even listed that as one of the reasons. I don't consider it a beginner perk at all, and its even pushing into the meta lately. You're being overly defensive when all you're getting is advice on how to prevent a situation you obviously dislike instead of just blaming other people that it happens. You're welcome to ignore it, but thats not going to help your outlook on your average game nor the people you play with.

Because they don't want to give up a well fought 4k for free.

No, it's cringe to do nothing and hide when you know you're outmatched and need the hatch to escape.

This is something I've said. There's no killer equivalent of hatch. And it is rewarding the survivors for failing by giving them a free escape.

I need the points for one,two I don't remember there being a waver or rule against it. All in all? Cry more

Another brilliant post from you. You're one of the reason of what's wrong with DBD playerbase.

And if you wanted points so badly, an average survivor game will give you double of what you can get as a killer at the moment.