scary,,,hatch,,,must,,waste,,time
I encounter more and more killers who kill 2 and leave the 3rd on the ground and go searching for the 4th, and if they cant find the last one, they try to get the 3rd surv to help them.
Why is the hatch so scary for some killers?
Why do they have to be like that?
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Sometimes it's their tomes. Other times it's their points. I may choose to do it simply because I don't like that survivor.
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Fair enough, i wouldnt have the patience to search the last one for 5minutes.
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It’s certainly cringe to slug for the 4K
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The killers are doing their objective, to not let anyone escape. That's like asking why are hooks so scary for survivors, because they could get killed. Some killers don't take their objectives as seriously as others so I haven't seen this behavior in a game in a long time.
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So, let's tell killers to stop complaining about two survivors who 'just hide till the other one dies holding the game hostage' because they're just doing their objective and trying to survive; which is the real objective not gens, gens just facilitate the objective to a point. But they won't, because it's boring as is being slugged for survivors.
This is a fantastic example of a situation that needs addressing because whist they're both valid tactics they're inconducive to Good interesting play and it's rampant. It needs intervention.
Post edited by jajay119 on6 -
I compare it to survivors standing at the exit gates until the last second just to waste my time to bag me or show oh lookie i won.
I dont slug for 4k but yeah..both sides are very good at being annoying.
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That is not a fair comparison imo. A fair comparison is killers standing on the hatch to close it when they see you approach, or killers who pretend they're going to let you open the doors only to down and hook you the second they open, or killers who hook you and stand there nodding or hitting you repestedly. They're all acts of trolling on both sides.
Slugging for the 4k is despite its flaws a way of doing the objective, so is the last two survivors hiding and waiting out each others' deaths to get the hatch. They're both valid tactics, but they're both just boring as Hell.
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Just some musings...
I understand the wisdom of the hatch, ie if a killer is really snowballing and kills off one survivor at 4 gens remaining, there is no real chance that the survivor's will regularly win this and the hatch let's them play on, because it is a sliver of hope that everyone can clinge to.
But why don't killers have a sliver of hope mechanic? Like when the survivors are utterly dominating and they got just 1 or 2 hooks, no one on death hook, all gens done. The killer got no hope in such a scenario, no actual reason to go on.
So how about a special mori that activates once the exit gates are powered when no survivor is on death hook: the next survivor downed can be moried. Simple as that. Would that be considered unfair? Or unfun? Up until this the survivors obviously had their fun.
"That would be rewarding the killer for failing" - fair enough... but then, isn't the hatch doing the same? Rewarding survivors for failing?
"Killers are already strong enough. No need to boost them further. " - fair enough. But would a system like this really be a boost? It would be more like an anti frustration or hope mechanic, just like the hatch.
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Like i said both sides can be nasty. Both sides have nasty tactics to annoy the other ones. I hate survivors that hide for 30 minutes and are wasting my time and survivors that stand at the exit gates refusing to go out wasting my time again.
I'm not a super fan of slugger killers eather, i dont like staying in a match 15 minutes extra because of this. I understand slugging if you down the 3rd survivor and you can see the 4th so you go after her or him to down them both.
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Because killer players need that 4k to sleep good at night.
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I don't like lying on the ground for the time it takes me to bleed out whilst the killer, who already has a 2k kill rate under their belt, and so have had a successful match by BHVR's standards, runs off to try and find the fourth survivor who, quite rightly, won't come anywhere near me to heal because they know the killer is likely baiting and proxy camping.
I will gladly admit that I also have started not going near a downed survivor in this situation for this exact reason and im sick of handinf killers cheap 4ks on a silver platter. But if you hook someone and are not overtly camping I will go for the save.
You can say 'both sides can be nasty' but it's still being implied that slugging for the 4k is more acceptable than survivors hiding for the hatch which 'wastes time'. If you don't like your time wasted then hook the survivor and give a chance for a better level of play to continue. You (killers who do this) are the architect of your own annoyance in situations like this as you don't want to risk anyone getting the hatch.
Unfortunately this type of play is rampant and that why it needs addressing.
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It’s not exactly the same thing - unless the killer is prolonging the slug beyond when someone ordinarily would bleed out. A survivor can locker hop indefinitely.
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I mean, it's a valid tactic to prevent last survivor escaping, but also a risk, if you leave a survivor slugged they may self res with unbreakable or exponential. Or the other survivor can res them.
Everyone dislikes getting slugged but i don't have too much of an issue with it in the 1v2 situation
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It's exactly the same thing. Both sides are 'doing the objective' to the most efficient way. Killers are trying to get kills, survivors are trying to survive against increased insurmountable odds where doing gens is no longer the best solution.
Constantly trying to excuse one act as more permissable than the others, especially when there is a very clear cause-effect correlation at play, is a massive issue when both eventualities are boring and need addressing.
What I said above still stands, if you don't like 'wasting your time' then stop slugging and camping for an easy win... because survivors are getting wise and you're not getting it anymore. You're the architect of your own frustration.
Hook the survivor and allow a chance of 'normal play' to continue.
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I just kill the 3rd and afk or go do something random. Closing hatch is pretty much a guarantee at this point for survivors to afk in a locker out of spite. Which is crazy to me but to each their own.
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If a survivor is delaying for hatch, they already lost the game. I am a very strong supporter of the efficiency cap of survivors being adjusted to make them weaker with more people while having more of a chance with less, but the fact of the matter is that the hatch does not spawn until the killer has won. They have gotten 3 kills and therefore they no longer have the potential of a loss or draw, while the hatch exists specifically to rob them of the 4th. Many killers adapted by just not caring about the 4th, but that doesn't mean that the mechanic itself doesn't rely on pity either from the killer or the entity.
You don't win through hatch, it is regarded as a draw. If the hatch is in play your only way to win is to get a gate escape after it has been closed, which can be harder or easier depending on the RNG involved with the exit gates.
The reason this is important is because it has to do with the prioritization of outcomes: The killer deserves the 4th kill far more than the survivor deserving the hatch in almost all cases, since the survivor could have used their agency to attempt to distract the killer and keep their team alive more. People need to understand that losing because you couldn't carry hard enough is different from losing because your team was bad, and mechanics like the hatch and its many wonderful standoff variations over the years are a pretty clean example of mechanics that prevent that disambiguation.
And before people take any of that out of perspective to try to dress it up to attack, no, I don't think that no survivor ever plays better than their outcome, nor that every killer who enters a hatch situation deserves the 4th kill 100% of the time. I'm talking about the mechanic purely from a game design standpoint, and going off of what had to happen to get there. Since the hatch has absolutely no requirements to earn it, it will forever be a charity and not a reward. Its just another case of people refusing to accept the factors that got them to that point, regardless of how much or little control they had over them.
Edit: I should also mention that obvious outliers like cheaters or people ragequitting ruining the game for their allies obviously are exceptions to all of this, since I feel like those kinds of outliers are obviously part of the 100% of the time exceptions but I didn't specify them, leading to attempts at gotcha comments to try to discredit the rest. But for the record, yes, there are going to be games that are still unfair based on this assessment.
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Or sometimes you can still lose the kill. Saw a guy manage to crawl and get away from killer while they chased and hooked the 3rd player. Made it tobthe corner of the map and bled out denying the killer the points for the 4th sacrifice lol
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scary....killler....must....wait...for....hatch...in....the.... locker
By the way, it's not the killer wasting time in that case, if the survivor is hiding instead of doing objectives like gens or helping out teammates it's on them, they are wasting time. The killer is doing his job.
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Something needs to be done about this tactic. It wastes so much time.
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Except hiding and not doing gens is literally against rules.
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Scary endgame collapse, must 99 the gates.
Survivors are doing the same but its cowardly killers only delaying unfavorable gamestate.
Nice t see this community being survivor biased as usual.
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I don’t know why people think the killer is obligated to give them a chance at getting hatch. They are literally the killer. The entitlement is insane.
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Yeah 99% of the time this isn't me. But adept / some tome challenges can force it. Also if a group has been teabagging all game then why not.
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I agree with that whole heartedly and it really annoys me when there are two of us uninjured left in the trial and one decides not to bother doing anything, usually when there is one gen left to do.
Except we aren't talking about two survivors 'just hiding and not doing gens'. We are talking about one survivor who refuses to be downed in a trap the killer has chosen to lay for them and has chosen to waste their own time by doing so. We are talkng about one survivor whom the killer is hunting directly and so evading them is part of the normal ganeplay. I doubt BHVR had this situation in mind, let alone how prevalent it is, when writing their rules. The killer refusing to hook someone for an extended period of time, leaving them down, could also be seen as refusing to participate in normal play, for example..
Like I said earlier, if you hook someone, rather than leave them down, the vast majority of the time someone will come in for the rescue because they see it as morenfair and make the assumption the game can continue relatively fairly. You coipd heal and do gens again. What happens if you try and save a downed survivor 3? You get downed and they chase survivor 3 again, down them again cause theyre injured or you just repeat the process ad infinitum until one of you dies. Like i said it may be valid, but its boring and needs addressing. Just as Dead Hard was boring and needed adressing despite being valid.
You can't blame survivors for not wanting to walk directly into an almost unavoidable trap after potentially working hard to survive all trial.
I don’t know why people think the survivor is obligated to give killers an easy kill They are literally the survivor. The entitlement, and irony, is insane.
Eveey time ive come into this thread ive said this needs addresing for both sides. This isn't about 'oh the killer should give me the hatch'. This is about ensuring a fun and fair experience for both sides for as much of the trial as possible. As the dead hard nerf proved, just because its 'valid' doesn't mean it doesn't need review when it becomes overused.
Post edited by jajay119 on0 -
The amount of times i have done it just because the last survivor was a UUUG (Utterly Useless Urbaning Gamer) currently ranges in the several hundred
Unfortunately, they never seem to learn to actually use their stealth to be useful to the team and instead hide in bushes the entire game every single ######### time
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You can argue definitions all you want but it’s not up for debate in the first place. BHVR has made it explicitly clear multiple times across the forum and game rules both that slugging, including for the 4th kill, is a legitimate strategy. Survivors hiding and refusing to try to repair is not, and is against rules. I can absolutely blame them for holding the game hostage because they refuse to accept the conclusion of a match the killer dominated (given 2 are dead before gens are done).
If the only other survivor is downed and you’re being actively hunted for, that is one thing. If that’s not the case, you are required to attempt to repair. What the survivor/you want is literally irrelevant. The reason you are in an extremely disadvantaged situation is because the killer did better than the survivors collectively by a landslide. Thinking you should be allowed to needlessly draw out a match that is realistically in its final stages just because you can’t accept the match was one-sided is a you problem.
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Survivors have to advance the game state. If there are two left, do gens. Its against the rules to take a game hostage.
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So funny when this happens and then the hatch spawns right under the slug!
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You can get kills without wasting other peoples time...Shocking, I know.
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Tough, get over it. Slugging for the 4K is a strategy. Shocking, I know.
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Well I don't think killers should complain about that either, what am I gonna do? Give myself up to you? No, do your job and come find me. Killers job is to kill, survivors job is to survive, idk what's so hard to understand about that.
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You can achieve the same result without making someone bleed out on the floor for 4 minutes. Hook the survivor, wait for unhook, get them both, or find them with BBQ.
Lucky hatch spawns don't happen as often as you think.
Imagine being so pressed over one kill in a non-ranked game.
I understand playing for 4k, but using a lazy a.s strategy can't possibly be satisfying.
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When you scope it like that, sure. But you were playing the game before that point, and you have not been successful. While that is shared by you and your teammates, being the last one standing doesn't mean you played any better or worse than any of the others. Likewise, you can have 2 survivors left and still turn the match around to deny 1 or both kills. It becomes considerably less likely, but its still possible without having to resort to just wasting everyone's time by hiding.
slugging for the 4th is basically two people trying to out-stubborn each other, with the person on the ground usually being the victim of the exchange.
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I'm talking about if there are only 2 survivors left hiding around, hell yeah imma try to outlast the other person, I don't just let people win, doesn't mean I'm stubborn. Also, If the killer is baiting people by leaving someone on the ground, and slugging that way, I'm not gonna fall for it personally because I'm not a confident looper and it will just be an annoying cycle of people getting downed and healed again. It just depends on the person I guess. I don't get mad at killers for slugging because once again, I feel like that's their objective.
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You already lost, you're fighting for who gets a chance at a draw, which is why i put the onus of the situation more on survivors than killers. They did their job and got 2 out, while the last 2 are just fighting over the scraps in the horrendous Survival category. If you get better at looping, you will find yourself in that situation less often just by virtue of its impact on your average success. It would be crass to just use the git gud meme but improving will honestly help you see this less often, and improve your win ratio at the same time.
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Why? I do fine just getting hatch. I don't need to get better at looping, I am a stealth player anyway. I do gens, if I encounter the killer I will run a little bit and then hide, escape the chase (sometimes), and if we all don't make it, I will try for hatch, tell me to gid gud all you want but I won't change my gameplay since I do a good amount of winning by myself.
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Because, again, hatch is a draw and not a win. Its only a win if you're waiting for the killer to close the hatch so you can try to sneak out an exit gate, which is sometimes easier or harder based purely on RNG. Also if you get better at looping, you will be able to buy more time for your teammates at the very least, which in turn improves your survival chances as well. Hell, getting good at looping is legitimately the best anti-tunnel tech in the game, as it easily ruins the effectiveness of tunneling the more you're wasting their time, and makes you less likely to be targeted for it when you are confident and efficient at the start of a chase.
Most importantly? It doesn't slow your games to a crawl the second things go bad. If you get good at looping, you can even get your boldness points up well above the survival bonus. I purposely avoided just saying git gud because I would rather see you actually improve and have less frustrating games where you feel the need to use such strategies. I'd highly recommend windows of opportunity as while it gets discounted by many as a beginner perk and whatnot, its value grows the more you get better at looping, making it extremely useful in the hands of good loopers as well as worse ones. If nothing else, it helps you identify resources that have/havent been used and route your chases faster and more efficiently.
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Sure, but the killer is not obligated to do something that gives a better chance of escape for the fourth. Judging someone for making the smart decision is kind of hilarious though.
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I don't think you understand my gameplay, I'm not here to "buy time" for my teammates just so they can leave me on the hook or so the killer can camp me to death. I'm here for me. And I use WoO... and call it a beginner perk if you want, it lets you know if other teammates wasted pallets already. I don't need someone else to tell me how to better my gameplay since this is obviously what it turned into. Thanks though.
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I just straight up said that windows gains more value in good hands than beginner ones, and even listed that as one of the reasons. I don't consider it a beginner perk at all, and its even pushing into the meta lately. You're being overly defensive when all you're getting is advice on how to prevent a situation you obviously dislike instead of just blaming other people that it happens. You're welcome to ignore it, but thats not going to help your outlook on your average game nor the people you play with.
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Idc if it happens lol I deal with it, I just got unnecessary advice that I didn't ask for. I literally came to comment on something that didn't even involve you.
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Because they don't want to give up a well fought 4k for free.
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It was in response to your comment which you seem to have forgotten, "Well I don't think killers should complain about that either, what am I gonna do? Give myself up to you?"
to which I was trying to give you an alternative. If you don't want to improve and want to use that as an excuse, more power to you.
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No, it's cringe to do nothing and hide when you know you're outmatched and need the hatch to escape.
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At least the killer is progressing the game.
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This is something I've said. There's no killer equivalent of hatch. And it is rewarding the survivors for failing by giving them a free escape.
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-deleted-
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I need the points for one,two I don't remember there being a waver or rule against it. All in all? Cry more
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I don't tbag at the gates, I only wait if there's someone still left behind.
And no, the game is not forcing you to slug. Vast majority of the time killers are the ones who find the hatch first. Stop blaming the game for your own actions. Wanna be lame and go for easy win, go ahead. That's how a lot of killers play recently anyways.
Just don't assume everyone is toxic and need to be slugged for ages because someone tbagged u 5 games ago.
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Another brilliant post from you. You're one of the reason of what's wrong with DBD playerbase.
And if you wanted points so badly, an average survivor game will give you double of what you can get as a killer at the moment.
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