Holding survivors hands so hard LMAO

The devs needed the emotional comfort of holding the hands of both their children.

its 22 seconds please be real

The killer only has 22.5 seconds, because they won’t know if the survivor has tenacity, so they have to imagine every survivor running it.

With unbreakable it is nearly 20 seconds. Good luck chasing and downing the guy camping the pallet in that time.

I feel like the self pickup is fine early on but I feel like a smart decision would be having the pickup timer scale based on how many hooks you have. That way early on the game doesn't end too quickly but as the killer hooks survivors it becomes easier to slug but it's not an inevitable you will be on the ground the entire game type of thing. Just as the game goes on the killer inevitably should have more power over the survivors.

Its not very hard to stall the killer for 45 seconds, and its especially not hard to do it for 22.5. And if you happen to have a flashlight or flashbang, you get even more angles and distances to aim for without needing to force the pallet positioning. All while that timer is ticking away.

People's issue is that it takes five seconds to come up with the various ways a coordinate group can take advantage of changes like these, which they literally always do and ruin them for everyone. Then they just try to fix those issues after the fact and either scrap and revert, try to reinvent the change into a way that ends up being useless, or just leave it as is and ignore when it ruins entire game direction. There are people who cry wolf, but there are also people who make very clear observations that BHVR seems to have never even considered.

There should be a basekit cooldown if it's going to be 45 seconds base, 22 with Unbreakable, 11 with Unbreakable and Exponential, and so on. The fact that they can pick themselves over and over will be abused. People are saying they can free up a perk slot... Do you really think they will at this point? Did killers user other perks when they increased gen times and gen regression with kicking them? Nope. Don't see survivors doing anything different here either.

Either it should be 45 seconds regardless of recovery perks, or have a cooldown because the use of recovery perks is going to ruin the game.

I think you make a very good point here: the PTB isn't even out yet, so we can not tell how exactly this will play out.

Which makes me question why you're already jumping to conclusions.

The way I see it, this will hardly affect you, unless you are actively slugging people (which is exactly the strategy they want to nerf, so that is fine). Sure they have the ability to pick themselves up in approximately 23 seconds using Unbreakable - but will that really affect you? How many people do you have that manage to pick themselves up using Unbreakable currently? Sure it happens, but at least from my experience that's not very common. Here's the thing with that: current Unbreakable allows Survivors to fully recover faster than the proposed new one does.

The new one is 45 seconds x 0.5 = 22.5 seconds, whereas the current one is 30.4 seconds x 0.65 = 19.76 seconds.

Currently I feel like this is very reminiscent of when Power Struggle first released and everyone here went crazy over how overpowered that Perk would be - because all they did was look at the effect of "free yourself from the Killers grasp" without taking all the stuff surrounding it into account.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong with any of what you are saying, but I am saying that it is way, WAY too early to draw conclusions and judge the changes at this point in time. Give it time, play around with it and see how it goes. I for one don't think it's going to be nearly as bad as most people will want you to believe, but only time will tell.

Also, what you're saying about No Mither is just, well, wrong. The whole point of that Perk is that you are injured all game, that is what this Perk is all about. That is actually supposed to be the upside of this Perk, as it allows you to bypass certain requirements on other Perks that need you to be injured right away. The Devs also called it the "hard mode" of DbD numerous times, so being able to pick yourself back up after getting downed is a nice little bonus you get for running it, not the main effect they somehow tried to balance around.

Remember last patch when survivor mains were told to adapt? LMFAOOOO yea me too.

I reached the same conclusion upon realising Unbreakable could stack with it and give you an infinite 22 second pick yourself up. That would make slugging achieve almost no purpose whatsoever. The base time of 45 seconds I think is ok.

You're welcome to hold on to your optimism, while some remember a time where CoH could have been reworked to be in line with the other boons instead of ruining the concept of boons by existing, even after it was laughably apparent before the PTB proved it, and their adjustments were all put in the wrong places instead of how its inclusion changed core gameplay mechanics entirely. They prove time and time again that they don't learn from their mistakes, so people try to caution them by reminding them before its too late. Once a change like this is rolled out, it becomes considerably harder to change or revert without undoing its impact on the rest of the game. I'd rather see them skip content updates and fix game health than make changes that shift the problems of game health around, but if nothing else it always makes for good lessons in the game devlopment process.

Also with the No mither comparison, its because the basekit effect is more in line with that than UB: UB you can only use once per trial, while no mither you can pick yourself up constantly. Its literally why people use it in troll and bully builds, as it usually has to do with forcing lose/lose situations to punish the killer for interacting with them in any way (including slugging and not bothering.) People paired it with their Boil Over meme builds for a reason.

45 seconds is a long time. If you don't want to lose a down, then pick up the survivor and hook them. It's really that simple.

i think survivor are over-playing their hand when complaining about slugging. slugging encourages the killer for the most part to pressure the entire team and asking the dev to fix slugging is asking for dev to continuously give you second chances at going down. survivors can infinitive nearly infinitive pick each other up in a 4 minute time window without the killer getting any reward for downing the survivor. for that reason, slugging is not that popular of strategy because it is least effective out of the 3 but completely deleting it feels like an extreme decision.

While its not impossible for the killer to win without slugging, the gameplay for killer is a lot more one dimensional now. I think that just something that killers are going to have to live with assuming the changes pass through. no more wild-comes back's. Personally I like the wild-come backs and explosive nature of the game with many gameplay among all the different killers but I guess it is alright if its more monotone.

Finishing Mori can end the game with little to no hooks. It activates with a combo of dead, dying, and hooked survivors. It's not about holding survivors hands, it's about keeping an important part of the game - hooking - still relevant.

You are attempting to ignore the numerous issues associated with just picking up.

Which to me means you

1. Never play killer

Or

2. Are a member of the swf no hook bully squads that will weaponize this entire patch.

Checks the one who posted it*

Yeah I doubt it.