Holding survivors hands so hard LMAO
Survivor goes down under pallet.
Another survivor is nearby.
...
Congrats you can no longer hook nor punish the survivors for blatant mistakes.
I'm losing my mind and I don't even slug, I play artist, one of the least slug reliant killers in the game.
This can't go live LMAO.
Comments
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The devs needed the emotional comfort of holding the hands of both their children.
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I feel like people are underestimating how long 45 seconds is.
In the present your scenario means that the slugged survivor is a 1 tap heal (because they've had long enough to recover) under that pallet. Meaning that the person distracting you can either throw the pallet and heal them on the other side or someone else comes in to get the heal. Either way that person on the floor is getting up when you are against competent survivors who are trying for pallet saves. All this PTB change does is make it so the survivor can get up themselves after a long time, but even then, what's stopping you from smacking them back down again? Or you could chase the other survivors off and injure them to make a pallet save much riskier, and you're given the time to do this with the 45 second timer. And in that case, you've got basically the whole team surrounding a pallet, which is brilliant pressure for the killer.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it plays out much worse in the actual game than it does on paper. But I think people are overreacting.
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Sounds like a skill issue.
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Well, since the game is designed that way (survivors are supposed to be downed sooner or later), being downed in a strategically right spot isn't a mistake (It's a joke but half-joke).
Just think about countermeasures. Fire Up, for example, to mess up all timings both for flashlights and pallet saves, spirit fury with no hitting survivors before paller drop, Blood Favour to block pallets, Iron Grasp.
Meta shake up is here, use different strategies and perks. Adapt.
And let survivors abuse this so devs can nerf all problematic stuff.
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The devs have been holding killers hands for so long now. I've stopped playing killer because it's become so easy and I don't play survivor because it's just not fun with all the camping and tunneling going on and useless randoms. My swf group I played with also stopped playing due to the unfun games on survivors side.
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That happens after 45s being on ground you should picked up him before that. I think it's healthy change and prevents slugging for 4K but tunneling qnd camping still needs to nerfed first and then buffs for weaker killers (below S tier.)
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How is this scenario changing? Are you picking that survivor up currently? Of course not. You still have to go after the lurking player. Is it taking you 45 seconds to resolve that currently? I certainly hope a killer isn't playing chicken with a slug under a pallet for 45 seconds. Are you currently seeing survivors left on the ground under pallets for 45 seconds in your games? No, because a team is going lose against a halfway decent killer with one survivor not doing a gen for 45 seconds and one in chase.
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If it takes you 45 seconds (half a generator worth of time) just to chase someone away from a pallet, that's on you.
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its 22 seconds with unbreakable.
We are not even talking about flip flop. boil over, unbreakable and tenacity
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its 22 seconds k thanks
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its 22 seconds please be real
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Not basekit, they have to use a Perk slot for that.
In other words, its completely pointless to bring it up in this discussion - but feel free to make your own discussion discussing the Perk Unbreakable and the changes it received.
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Yeah and now it's 20. You have two more seconds to deal with that.
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You have to use a perk slot to be able to pick yourself up in 22 seconds. Think about how dumb that sounds when currently you need to use a perk to even be able to perform the action in the first place, let alone that quickly. You can straight up bodyblock while injured and force the killer to have to pick you up and abandon the other person with one perk slot, while they're likely using one to be able to force you to hit them so they can body block for another, all while another person is chillin nearby with a flashlight or one of them gets downed under a pallet and you're given a basekit time limit to chase away or down anyone else in the vicinity or the just... get away for free. And the perk brings that time limit down to 22 seconds.
I havent even seen anything about how this would affect perks like soul guard yet. This idea isn't even half baked and i hope the PTB makes it extremely apparent how much more thought needs to go into it before live.
Edit: Also, just for emphasis, being able to pick yourself up for free without a limit on number of uses was the thing that was so strong about no mither it required being paired with permanent broken status. Just think about that for a moment.
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The killer only has 22.5 seconds, because they won’t know if the survivor has tenacity, so they have to imagine every survivor running it.
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SurvivorsKillers are just angry because they got a false sense of how good they are by constantlyrunning Dead HardSlugging and Camping, which carried them now they have to learn how to actually play the game.9 -
Except that's not how it goes. That survivor is guaranteed gonna be injured if they get around the pallet, or if they weren't around when he first got downed then the killer could pick, plus worse case scenario you get pressure from people getting off of gens.
"after a long time" it's 45 seconds. 22.5 with UB. Plus no other survivor is gonna pick up the slug anymore because why would they when everyone has permanent UB? So no more pressure from a slug.
"Just smack them back down 4Head" no. The pallet will get predropped and soul guard exists. Plus exhaustion perks would have recovered by then.
Doesn't matter if they become injured, as they only need to stay near the pallet instead of trying to drop on the right side current update. Try to commit to him? the cycle repeats (another thing pushing people to play nurse blight etc). A good team will always have 1 on a gen when doing this strat.
The reason this change tilts me so much is that instead of nerfing the reason slugging was easy for some killers (exposed nurse, ring blight etc) they decide to make survivors 3rd best perk basekit, screwing over every other killer while barely touching the viability of the previously mentioned #########.
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Pushing Killer to tunneling strats harder and harder it seems.
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I hope so. Then they can have solid evidence to nerf that too!
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45 seconds is a long time. That's half a gen. And with Unbreakable that just becomes what an Unbreakable recovery is at the moment. You're giving up a perk slot on the basis that you're going to get slugged and will need to get up quickly and this is while the killer KNOWS you can get up yourself. So therefore by default the perk is weaker because the chances of you getting to use it are slimmer because the killer now has to be much warier about leaving people slugged. But it could stand to be adjusted. A one time use maybe and then it deactivates and you recover at the normal rate. 20 seconds is too short to be in the game by default. But at the same time I don't want yet another perk that gets gutted and is never used again.
As for the rest, if you have someone slugged under a pallet and another preventing you from picking up, that is still pressure. That's two people that aren't doing gens. And if that preventing survivor persists you can injure them and chase them off from the pallet. You don't need to commit to them. Or if they try to loop you around it get them to drop the pallet and then you can pick up no issue. All of that is doable in 45 seconds. If the slugged dude gets up, you go for the survivor you've injured if you're worried about Soul Guard (which I think is more than balanced IF you recover at the normal speed). If that slugged survivor predrops the pallet, then that's a pallet they can no longer use for the rest of the game.
This is all again in theory. What I'm saying here could work out very differently in-game. But at the moment all we can do is theorise. I think that the base kit change is fine. It still allows slugging to create pressure but not for it to snowball, which is what killers like Blight and Nurse are so good at doing and can can cause games to end very quickly. Typical killers won't be affected by this change. You can slug a survivor, take the time to run someone off a gen or get a free slap/gen kick/whatever, and then return to hook them. It's perfectly reasonable for a killer to be able to do that in a 45 second window which is why I said it was a long time. It is for doing things that would require you to slug someone. It isn't if you want to leave them slugged for ages and create a snowball effect of multiple slugged survivors. And considering the Mori feature BHVR are planning to implement, this change is ESSENTIAL. I am not going to play matches where the killer's sole strategy is to slug everyone so they can end the game as fast as possible. That would be very unhealthy for the game and send the Forums into an even larger frenzy than they are now.
Just wait and see on the PTB. The changes aren't live yet. And if the community are vocal enough then they won't go through (Clueless). I'd like to think the devs at least learned from the whole Boil Over debacle.
TLDR; Base kit the change is fine. Unbreakable being an infinite use perk and other anti-slug perks tip the change into dangerous territory. Regardless, the change is needed for the proposed Mori rework because if it didn't exist killers would be strongly incentivised to run full hard slug builds to end the game as quickly as possible, as getting everyone on the floor now results in an instant win. Wait for the PTB and then draw your conclusions and if the community still has the same consensus then hopefully the changes will be scrapped. Until then wait and see.
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With unbreakable it is nearly 20 seconds. Good luck chasing and downing the guy camping the pallet in that time.
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... kill them in under 45 seconds, if they're right there, it shouldn't be too hard
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I feel like the self pickup is fine early on but I feel like a smart decision would be having the pickup timer scale based on how many hooks you have. That way early on the game doesn't end too quickly but as the killer hooks survivors it becomes easier to slug but it's not an inevitable you will be on the ground the entire game type of thing. Just as the game goes on the killer inevitably should have more power over the survivors.
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It's approximately 23 seconds, not 20.
Also that is absolutely not how you want to play that scenario out. If you greed for that second down they will punish that play even without any baseline pickup mechanic. All you want to do here is push them far enough away from the location that you can pick up the slug and make it out of the pallet before they can reach the side you are not bodyblocking - and nothing more. That should take you approximately 5 to 10 seconds.
Sure certain Killers (e.g. Huntress) might be able to squeeze a second down out of this, but that is not what you should expect as the normal outcome with most characters.
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Its not very hard to stall the killer for 45 seconds, and its especially not hard to do it for 22.5. And if you happen to have a flashlight or flashbang, you get even more angles and distances to aim for without needing to force the pallet positioning. All while that timer is ticking away.
People's issue is that it takes five seconds to come up with the various ways a coordinate group can take advantage of changes like these, which they literally always do and ruin them for everyone. Then they just try to fix those issues after the fact and either scrap and revert, try to reinvent the change into a way that ends up being useless, or just leave it as is and ignore when it ruins entire game direction. There are people who cry wolf, but there are also people who make very clear observations that BHVR seems to have never even considered.
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UB does not need buff, it looks so busted with this base-kit change. But 45 seconds basekit UB is fair. I think they should change UB to different type perk at this point.
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There should be a basekit cooldown if it's going to be 45 seconds base, 22 with Unbreakable, 11 with Unbreakable and Exponential, and so on. The fact that they can pick themselves over and over will be abused. People are saying they can free up a perk slot... Do you really think they will at this point? Did killers user other perks when they increased gen times and gen regression with kicking them? Nope. Don't see survivors doing anything different here either.
Either it should be 45 seconds regardless of recovery perks, or have a cooldown because the use of recovery perks is going to ruin the game.
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The base change is fine but unbreakable is now as strong as a boon that can't be snuffed that's kinda of crazy
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I think you make a very good point here: the PTB isn't even out yet, so we can not tell how exactly this will play out.
Which makes me question why you're already jumping to conclusions.
The way I see it, this will hardly affect you, unless you are actively slugging people (which is exactly the strategy they want to nerf, so that is fine). Sure they have the ability to pick themselves up in approximately 23 seconds using Unbreakable - but will that really affect you? How many people do you have that manage to pick themselves up using Unbreakable currently? Sure it happens, but at least from my experience that's not very common. Here's the thing with that: current Unbreakable allows Survivors to fully recover faster than the proposed new one does.
The new one is 45 seconds x 0.5 = 22.5 seconds, whereas the current one is 30.4 seconds x 0.65 = 19.76 seconds.
Currently I feel like this is very reminiscent of when Power Struggle first released and everyone here went crazy over how overpowered that Perk would be - because all they did was look at the effect of "free yourself from the Killers grasp" without taking all the stuff surrounding it into account.
I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong with any of what you are saying, but I am saying that it is way, WAY too early to draw conclusions and judge the changes at this point in time. Give it time, play around with it and see how it goes. I for one don't think it's going to be nearly as bad as most people will want you to believe, but only time will tell.
Also, what you're saying about No Mither is just, well, wrong. The whole point of that Perk is that you are injured all game, that is what this Perk is all about. That is actually supposed to be the upside of this Perk, as it allows you to bypass certain requirements on other Perks that need you to be injured right away. The Devs also called it the "hard mode" of DbD numerous times, so being able to pick yourself back up after getting downed is a nice little bonus you get for running it, not the main effect they somehow tried to balance around.
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This can't go live
It literally won't
I am pretty sure the reason the devs are delaying the change for another update is because they have other changes in mind. Remember that the hatch closing mechanic was originally a delayed PTB change and it took them about a year to find a proper solution to the issue.
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Remember last patch when survivor mains were told to adapt? LMFAOOOO yea me too.
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Honest question:
How do you propose killers pressure 4 survivors?
1) Tunnel someone out with the first three hooks - Nobody wants this.
2) Hook one survivor and slug another - You're deleting this option.
3) Play a different game - Seems like the answer.
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I reached the same conclusion upon realising Unbreakable could stack with it and give you an infinite 22 second pick yourself up. That would make slugging achieve almost no purpose whatsoever. The base time of 45 seconds I think is ok.
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i dont even understand why slugging is bad. You find 2 survs around gen, you put one in dying state and follow another.
Sometimes there are 2-4 reparing one gen. I honestly dont understand what a fun playing without changing your target. When you pick up surv and carry him to a hook usualy "fun" is lost, others just run away and hide.
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You're welcome to hold on to your optimism, while some remember a time where CoH could have been reworked to be in line with the other boons instead of ruining the concept of boons by existing, even after it was laughably apparent before the PTB proved it, and their adjustments were all put in the wrong places instead of how its inclusion changed core gameplay mechanics entirely. They prove time and time again that they don't learn from their mistakes, so people try to caution them by reminding them before its too late. Once a change like this is rolled out, it becomes considerably harder to change or revert without undoing its impact on the rest of the game. I'd rather see them skip content updates and fix game health than make changes that shift the problems of game health around, but if nothing else it always makes for good lessons in the game devlopment process.
Also with the No mither comparison, its because the basekit effect is more in line with that than UB: UB you can only use once per trial, while no mither you can pick yourself up constantly. Its literally why people use it in troll and bully builds, as it usually has to do with forcing lose/lose situations to punish the killer for interacting with them in any way (including slugging and not bothering.) People paired it with their Boil Over meme builds for a reason.
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Killers overreacting as usual. It's fine
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This is the crux of it: self pick-up was so damn powerful you needed a perk to do it once.
Now its a given and infinite.
What the #########.
The change is a reckless and ill-thought out as circle of healing was, and I'm worried its going to destroy the gameplay in ways that absolutely mirror just how much that update ruined the killer experience and my preferred playstyle.
As usual, they're implementing change without regard with the current discrepency between solo and swf. The jerkass bully squads are going to be all over the place with this.
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Still not as bad as the overreacting of survivors after the meta shake up.
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45 seconds is a long time. If you don't want to lose a down, then pick up the survivor and hook them. It's really that simple.
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Its not that simple, but oversimplifying issues is an effective way of dismissing them instead of addressing them.
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i think survivor are over-playing their hand when complaining about slugging. slugging encourages the killer for the most part to pressure the entire team and asking the dev to fix slugging is asking for dev to continuously give you second chances at going down. survivors can infinitive nearly infinitive pick each other up in a 4 minute time window without the killer getting any reward for downing the survivor. for that reason, slugging is not that popular of strategy because it is least effective out of the 3 but completely deleting it feels like an extreme decision.
While its not impossible for the killer to win without slugging, the gameplay for killer is a lot more one dimensional now. I think that just something that killers are going to have to live with assuming the changes pass through. no more wild-comes back's. Personally I like the wild-come backs and explosive nature of the game with many gameplay among all the different killers but I guess it is alright if its more monotone.
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Ah yes, downing a survivor is now a skill issue.
Survivor only players make such odd statements.
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That's a joke btw
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Oof 😂
"Holding survivors hand so hard"
Patch 6.1.0 : "Hold my beer"
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Finishing Mori can end the game with little to no hooks. It activates with a combo of dead, dying, and hooked survivors. It's not about holding survivors hands, it's about keeping an important part of the game - hooking - still relevant.
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People overreacted in the same way about basekit BT. Even with 10 seconds and the haste effect we still ended up with a 61% kill rate. This was in spite of all the sky is falling talk about how OP survivors were going to be.
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You are attempting to ignore the numerous issues associated with just picking up.
Which to me means you
1. Never play killer
Or
2. Are a member of the swf no hook bully squads that will weaponize this entire patch.
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As hard as I hold Yui's hand to hatch
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Checks the one who posted it*
Yeah I doubt it.
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