Hatch = free NOED for Survivors
Comments
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The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
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But by who? Both killers and survivors complained about the length of the games on the PTB.FireHazard said:@twistedmonkey said:
FireHazard said:@douggie123 said:
The killer should be able to shut hatch if they find it first before the survivor. It's also annoying because I can always find hatch easy as anything when playing killer but as survivor it takes an age to find it if at all.
They did have that mechanic when the PTB for the clown was around I believe (When he was the newest killer.) But the idea got tossed around and eventually closed for obvious reasons...Cough The community outrage Cough
Please dont spread false information with conspiracy theorys.
The reason the closing of the hatch mechanic was scrapped was due to it not solving the problem of the hatch standoff, survivors having no hope could stealth around maybe touching a gen now and again but in the end the game went on for a stupid length.
It didn't fix the standoff problem where two stubborn people would rather stand there staring at eaxh other, it simply moved it to long hide and seek scenario prolonging the game in a different way.
This went against the hatch by design as it is to help end the game quicker so both sides can move on to another one.
Sorry? You have to admit though, if it wasn't THAT...then it'd be community outrage.
That's irrelevant though as the reason was that it did not solve the problem the standoff created.0 -
No, killers are not entitled to a 4 man. We are entitled to a fair race to the hatch to stop the survivor getting away.Poweas said:No, stupid. Adrenaline is the survivors NOED. It doubles the amount of hits u take to get down and NOED halves it. Stop complaining about the hatch. Slug for your 4 man or stop thinking your entitled to a 4 man. Honestly.
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I don't mind the hatch honestly, a 4k isn't a primary win condition for me though. I feel if you got 3 kills and that one individual got out to tell the tale... well that is a lot of horror movies.
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Instead of the hatch, just have the exit gates get powered (and exclude the penalty to the gatekeeper emblem).0
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
Instead of the hatch, just have the exit gates get powered (and exclude the penalty to the gatekeeper emblem).Could also just require hatch lock to be "picked", like a channel to open it. Maybe when there is 1 survivor left the lock "breaks" such that it could be picked. That would solve the hatch standoff too. Then you could also have Broken Keys "pick" the lock in the same way. Simple solution actually.
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@RSB said:
Tell me in which game, when the whole team fails, one players is rewarded for their braindead? CS? TF2? Battlefield or CoD? Something else?
No. Hatch is a free win for one survivor, and completly denies the well-earned 4k for the killer.
With all respect, if you can't finish 5 gens in 2019, where all gens can be easily finished in 3-4 minutes, then you deserve to get on hook.
Killer should be able to close the hatch, and after 1 minute, if the survivor won't complete one gen (which would reopen the hatch), his aura should be permamently revealed to the killer. End of story.
You want that 4k EARN IT, you didn't deserve a free 4k if you didn't kill that last person, you let 2 gens get done, that person leaves you still won. What you're asking for is to be given an ENTITLED free kill by doing absolutely nothing once you've killed 3.
You're not entitled to that 4th k ever and if you want it go earn it it's not that hard and if 1 person gets out big deal it's not like it's the end of the world.
If you want the hatch removed then get rid of crows, Whispers, Spies, All aura reading perks of any kind and enjoy the 5 hour hide and seek match.
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Noed: =
- 1 shot down for all 4 survivors
Hatch: =
- At least 2 Gens ** must ** be done
- All 3 Survivors must be link dead / hooked till death / bled out / escaped through gates before it opens for the last Survivor only.
- Must find hatch (damn near impossible unless you have a map with hatch add on)
So it's a bit different aye.
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@twistedmonkey said:
FireHazard said:@twistedmonkey said:
FireHazard said:
@douggie123 said: The killer should be able to shut hatch if they find it first before the survivor. It's also annoying because I can always find hatch easy as anything when playing killer but as survivor it takes an age to find it if at all. They did have that mechanic when the PTB for the clown was around I believe (When he was the newest killer.) But the idea got tossed around and eventually closed for obvious reasons...Cough The community outrage Cough Please dont spread false information with conspiracy theorys. The reason the closing of the hatch mechanic was scrapped was due to it not solving the problem of the hatch standoff, survivors having no hope could stealth around maybe touching a gen now and again but in the end the game went on for a stupid length. It didn't fix the standoff problem where two stubborn people would rather stand there staring at eaxh other, it simply moved it to long hide and seek scenario prolonging the game in a different way.
This went against the hatch by design as it is to help end the game quicker so both sides can move on to another one.
Sorry? You have to admit though, if it wasn't THAT...then it'd be community outrage.
But by who? Both killers and survivors complained about the length of the games on the PTB.
That's irrelevant though as the reason was that it did not solve the problem the standoff created.
Mostly survivor mains due to it removing their one chance of an escape if their team dies/are all potatoes.
And killers only complained also cause... what else is a survivor going to do but hide when 3 gens need to be done, I tried this once awhile ago during a match when 4 gens needed to be done...its not possible unless the killer has no brain and doesn't monitor every gen.
It more or less needs a rework for it to be balanced in the first place (Like most things..) but if you're like me...you just accept that they found it first or you did and let them have it and move on. Unless you're a stubborn killer with a massive pride I don't see the issue here. Killers that usually complain about the hatch are the same killers that will stand there for 500 hours until they get the last kill.
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Its funny that no one likes to attribute the use of noed to a good killer. Its always a bad one that has to use crutches. For a perk that is only active for about a minute and can be prevented, it gets so much hate. Of course bad killers use it, but its far more devastating in the hands of a good one. For those of you that want it removed, do it yourself and cleanse the totems. And before you say its to hard there are perks to ease the search, so maybe drop sc or sb to address the solution the Dev's gave you.
The hatch is itself is more difficult to address. So many things can lead to a hatch escape that a killer has to balance around. Based on the number of gens, killing a survivor can result in the other three using a key. Countering the last two reinforces slugging which survivors hate. Hatch even causes survivors to give up on the team in favor of an instant exit. I know there are a few of us, but when was the last time you watched a teammate use Left Behind to escape. It just doesn't happen cause everyone knows that when a killer starts to steamroll, the only real pressure is making sure your the last to be found. The Dev's want to rework endgame and I hope it comes soon. Removing the hatch is an answer to some issues, but I doubt its the best one as the community is more diverse than noob locker Dwights waiting for an easy win. Lets see how endgame is improved before requesting the removal of such a large feature.1 -
What about instead of the hatch appearing when only two survivors are left, the gates open three minutes after the second to last survivor dies?
The timer can pause if (for however long) the last survivor hides in a locker, and can even begin to close if the survivor spends more than 20 seconds total in lockers.
If the survivor spends more than 20 seconds in the same area they immediately get three crows circling them.
This would ensure that both exits become open, there wouldn’t be a stalemate for a single spot on the map, and both players would have to continue moving and keep the game going until either the survivor escaped or the killers gets their 4K.0 -
People have proposed solutions for this several times.Peanits said:The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
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@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
Yes and most of the solutions either won't work, or are impractical and quite often it's simply remove it and give me muh 4k.
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You won't convince me that the hatch is deserved as long as there is no similar mechanic for killers.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
Yes and most of the solutions either won't work, or are impractical and quite often it's simply remove it and give me muh 4k.
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I never said the killers deserve a 4k.
What I am saying is: if you as the killer dominate the game. Successfully pull of a 3 gen strat by carefully protecting the right gens, outplay the survivors and bait them to do all the gens far away it feels just unfair when the just can take the hatch.
At this point it doesn't matter if there are 3 or 2 survivors left. They won't touch the gens and just wait over 5 min without doing anything until one of them is the last alive so they can take the hatch.
Why after all these years are there no mechanic in place to prevent such scenarios and force the survivors to play!
A survivor don't have to complete a single gen aslong the entire team manages to get 2 gens. Usually you achieve this after the first chase.
All you have to do from.there is sneak around and avoid the killer until you find the hatch and the circle the hatch and hope the killer gets the other survivors.
Survivors won't attempt to unhook or to pick up slugged teammates they want them to die.
My last 5 games where like this. Is simply not fun to play for anyone!
And there is nothing I can do against it. I am forced to wait it out or let them win.
That's why I wish for a time limit for survivors.0 -
YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO 4K
Like really is it that big of a deal that ONE flippin' survivor escapes? I guarantee the even if you do let them go you will pip, and you have a high chance to double pip. HELL if you didn't try to dilly dally so much you could probably just killed the third guy and catch the last guy before they even find the hatch. I do it all the time. I also will flat out give the last survivor hatch. I don't sit there like some needy child dragging out a game unnecessarily. If I slug the third guy its to go look for the 4th. I make rounds to the gens and check some spots where I think they might be. I don't camp the slug, if they get up cool, the game keeps moving AND I have an idea where they both are. If I come back and the guy is still slugged, I kill him and try to catch the guy before he takes hatch. Most of the time I get them (and then give them hatch anyway), and sometimes they get it legit.
You are making such a big deal of this because you want a 4k and no other reason. That's called being a stubborn #########.
@Cymer said:
Survivors won't attempt to unhook or to pick up slugged teammates they want them to die.Yea that's what you do if you want to hatch. You wait until the other guy gets caught and dies. It's a strategy. If you didn't screw around so much trying to bait them with stupid tactics only an idiot would fall for you wouldn't have such a problem with the hatch. You just want stuff handed to you that you didn't earn. You can sit there and tell me that's not it until you are blue in the face, but at the bottom of it all that's what you are asking for. FREE KILLS.
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@Tsulan said:
You won't convince me that the hatch is deserved as long as there is no similar mechanic for killers.
You've got Mori's 1 hook then dead, instant downs from Iri's and Pinky's and oh those are reusable too the killer can also sacrifice survivors, the survivors can't do that to the killer.
If you killer mains that want the hatch removed will agree to the removal of all and I mean all aura perks/addons/tracking abilities/crows/ Spies/Whispers.
That includes All seeing Eye, Mirror Myers, Amanda's addon etc once last person is left then you can remove the hatch but then good luck playing hide and seek for several hours.
The hatch is deserved if the survivors do enough to make it spawn and even then there's no guarantees they'll get it.
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@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
They have. Some have been tested even with a PTB. In practice some of the suggestions just would not work (closing the hatch in the PTB, for example, did not fix the standoff issue but rather transferred it to a generator standoff). Others require massive reworks, or sway things one way or other depending on how that particular person feels. It'll be looked at eventually, but sticking a bandaid on it and potentially making it worse in the meantime would not be a very good use of time.
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@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
Tell me in which game, when the whole team fails, one players is rewarded for their braindead? CS? TF2? Battlefield or CoD? Something else?
No. Hatch is a free win for one survivor, and completly denies the well-earned 4k for the killer.
With all respect, if you can't finish 5 gens in 2019, where all gens can be easily finished in 3-4 minutes, then you deserve to get on hook.
Killer should be able to close the hatch, and after 1 minute, if the survivor won't complete one gen (which would reopen the hatch), his aura should be permamently revealed to the killer. End of story.
You want that 4k EARN IT, you didn't deserve a free 4k if you didn't kill that last person, you let 2 gens get done, that person leaves you still won. What you're asking for is to be given an ENTITLED free kill by doing absolutely nothing once you've killed 3.
You're not entitled to that 4th k ever and if you want it go earn it it's not that hard and if 1 person gets out big deal it's not like it's the end of the world.
If you want the hatch removed then get rid of crows, Whispers, Spies, All aura reading perks of any kind and enjoy the 5 hour hide and seek match.
Could you be more biased, please? Because there MAY be one, or 2 people who still takes you seriously on this forum, thanks.
I feel entitled to my 4k, when i wreck bunch of survivors, but one still gets a free win.
Where is a free one kill for the killers, huh? If survivors can have one free escape, because "oh, the game must feel harder for the winning side at the end of the match", then why killers can't have a "go to the X spot and instantly kill random survivor, even if he did all gens by himself and literally deserves this escape"?
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@RSB said:
Could you be more biased, please? Because there MAY be one, or 2 people who still takes you seriously on this forum, thanks.I feel entitled to my 4k, when i wreck bunch of survivors, but one still gets a free win.
You've wrecked 3 survivors, not 4. You want the fourth one, earn it, slug, run perks to find them.
Where is a free one kill for the killers, huh? If survivors can have one free escape, because "oh, the game must feel harder for the winning side at the end of the match", then why killers can't have a "go to the X spot and instantly kill random survivor, even if he did all gens by himself and literally deserves this escape"?
The three tasks a survivor has is
1. Do Gens
2. EscapeAnd 3, the most important one SURVIVE. So if a survivor has SURVIVED long enough for the hatch to be readily available, is it really a "free" escape? Seems to me like they've
A. Participated in gen completion by either working on them or distracting the killer.
And
B. Survived enough for the hatch.So while you like to label it as free it really isn't.
All in all, 4th kills really don't matter unless you've not hooked that person for the fourth stack on BBQ and that's the only time I'll really go ham and slug end game so I can get it.
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@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:
The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up. Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
Yes and most of the solutions either won't work, or are impractical and quite often it's simply remove it and give me muh 4k.
You won't convince me that the hatch is deserved as long as there is no similar mechanic for killers.
What's there to "deserve"? Hatch largely depends on luck. Just like...
Ruin spawn location
Pallet & hook spawn locations
Perks of your opponent
Frequency of skill checks
Spawning spot of survivors and killer, and the relatively random choice of the killer's first patrol destination.And a lot more.
I'd say more than 50% of a game's outcome depends on luck. Yes, the rest is up to the killer's and survivors' experience. But that's hardly something morally valuable either. "Deserve" has nothing to do with it.Just take your 3K and get on with your life.
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Is there a mechanic that magically closes the gate once 3 survivors escaped, so the killer gets at least 1 kill?George_Soros said:@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:
The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up. Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
Yes and most of the solutions either won't work, or are impractical and quite often it's simply remove it and give me muh 4k.
You won't convince me that the hatch is deserved as long as there is no similar mechanic for killers.
What's there to "deserve"? Hatch largely depends on luck. Just like...
Ruin spawn location
Pallet & hook spawn locations
Perks of your opponent
Frequency of skill checks
Spawning spot of survivors and killer, and the relatively random choice of the killer's first patrol destination.And a lot more.
I'd say more than 50% of a game's outcome depends on luck. Yes, the rest is up to the killer's and survivors' experience. But that's hardly something morally valuable either. "Deserve" has nothing to do with it.Just take your 3K and get on with your life.
No? So why do survivors get one?3 -
Insta heals, DS, 3 other teammates, keys, etc.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
You won't convince me that the hatch is deserved as long as there is no similar mechanic for killers.
You've got Mori's 1 hook then dead, instant downs from Iri's and Pinky's and oh those are reusable too the killer can also sacrifice survivors, the survivors can't do that to the killer.
If you killer mains that want the hatch removed will agree to the removal of all and I mean all aura perks/addons/tracking abilities/crows/ Spies/Whispers.
That includes All seeing Eye, Mirror Myers, Amanda's addon etc once last person is left then you can remove the hatch but then good luck playing hide and seek for several hours.
The hatch is deserved if the survivors do enough to make it spawn and even then there's no guarantees they'll get it.
I can play this game too.
Why does one side deserve a free win but the other one not?
Just look at the post above.3 -
I understand why the hatch exists.Peanits said:@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up.
Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
They have. Some have been tested even with a PTB. In practice some of the suggestions just would not work (closing the hatch in the PTB, for example, did not fix the standoff issue but rather transferred it to a generator standoff). Others require massive reworks, or sway things one way or other depending on how that particular person feels. It'll be looked at eventually, but sticking a bandaid on it and potentially making it worse in the meantime would not be a very good use of time.
People would take the game hostage until the killer leaves. But people also do this with a open hatch too. So it's just a bandaid as of now.
This doesn't change, that it rewards bad survivors that failed their objective.
Killers have no such mechanism. Is there something planned? To even the odds.2 -
@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:@Tsulan said:
Peanits said:
The hatch isn't perfect, but it is there out of necessity. The alternative of not having a hatch would result in a stalemate where the killer patrols generators and the survivor tries to fix them. If the killer hears a generator being worked on, they'll know the survivor is there. It'll take that solo survivor 80 seconds to repair a single generator, and the killer can easily patrol all the generators in less time. The result is a stalemate where the survivors just going to hide and wait until there's an opportunity to fix a generator, except that opportunity will only come when the killer has gotten bored and given up. Getting rid of it in theory is great, but in practice, it would not work. The end game will be receiving a rework at some point and the hatch will likely be looked into at the same time.
People have proposed solutions for this several times.
They have. Some have been tested even with a PTB. In practice some of the suggestions just would not work (closing the hatch in the PTB, for example, did not fix the standoff issue but rather transferred it to a generator standoff). Others require massive reworks, or sway things one way or other depending on how that particular person feels. It'll be looked at eventually, but sticking a bandaid on it and potentially making it worse in the meantime would not be a very good use of time.
I understand why the hatch exists.
People would take the game hostage until the killer leaves. But people also do this with a open hatch too. So it's just a bandaid as of now.This doesn't change, that it rewards bad survivors that failed their objective.
Killers have no such mechanism. Is there something planned? To even the odds.Of course not, it would be unfair for the survivors!
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In this thread.
Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
and i know it's hard for you guys to understand this but they haven't failed their objective, their objective gets changed due to the circumstances. CRAZY RIGHT?!
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
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@SenzuDuck said:
In this thread.Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
What would you say if you play perfectly outplayed the survivors by protecting the correct gens and pushing the survivors in a strategic beneficial situation and all your work and effort goes down the drain because of a hatch mechanic.
Even from a survivor point of view you can argue, you did everything for your team, bodyblocked, unhooked, genjockey but at the end the other player just lets you die so he can get the hatch and did nothing the entire game.
It's not only on the killer side.
Wake up!1 -
Hatch and keys are more akin to the killer moris than to noed imo. And yeah no one will ever associate a good killer with noed, because using noed just clouds the killer skill. Did they 4k because they were good or just thanks a strong perk.
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@Cymer said:
@SenzuDuck said:
In this thread.Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
What would you say if you play perfectly outplayed the survivors by protecting the correct gens and pushing the survivors in a strategic beneficial situation and all your work and effort goes down the drain because of a hatch mechanic.
Even from a survivor point of view you can argue, you did everything for your team, bodyblocked, unhooked, genjockey but at the end the other player just lets you die so he can get the hatch and did nothing the entire game.
It's not only on the killer side.
Wake up!What does this have to do with this conversation? You can't self save so you rely on other people, some do wait out hatch and I usually let my self die if there's a possibility a random can get hatch.
A killer didn't play the game perfectly, they killed THREE survivors, im sure you've played this game enough to notice that there are in fact FOUR survivors so lets not pretend you deserve that fourth kill because you killed 3 others.
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Sure you can self save.SenzuDuck said:@Cymer said:
@SenzuDuck said:
In this thread.Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
What would you say if you play perfectly outplayed the survivors by protecting the correct gens and pushing the survivors in a strategic beneficial situation and all your work and effort goes down the drain because of a hatch mechanic.
Even from a survivor point of view you can argue, you did everything for your team, bodyblocked, unhooked, genjockey but at the end the other player just lets you die so he can get the hatch and did nothing the entire game.
It's not only on the killer side.
Wake up!What does this have to do with this conversation? You can't self save so you rely on other people, some do wait out hatch and I usually let my self die if there's a possibility a random can get hatch.
A killer didn't play the game perfectly, they killed THREE survivors, im sure you've played this game enough to notice that there are in fact FOUR survivors so lets not pretend you deserve that fourth kill because you killed 3 others.
Deliverance and Unbreakable both do this.
Ts ts ts3 -
Killer has to find, chase, down and hook 3 survivors in 80 seconds in order to avoid the hatch.SenzuDuck said:In this thread.
Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
and i know it's hard for you guys to understand this but they haven't failed their objective, their objective gets changed due to the circumstances. CRAZY RIGHT?!
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
Yeah, sounds fair...0 -
@Tsulan said:
Sure you can self save.
Deliverance and Unbreakable both do this.Ts ts ts
Yea lemme just deliverance on my second hook, or better yet use unbreakable on the hook, that seems reasonable. I know it takes you months and months of learning to figure out mechanics so I'll make it easy. that's not how those perks work.
Lets not forget you didn't even know how hatch works up until 4 weeks ago and now you're the born again hatch expert.
this whole conversation is akin to 4 survivors getting 4 gens done without dying and saying "Well the 5th gen should just complete itself because we've outplayed the killer"
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@Tsulan said:
SenzuDuck said:In this thread.
Killers who think the fourth survivor should just die because they killed three survivors lmao.
and i know it's hard for you guys to understand this but they haven't failed their objective, their objective gets changed due to the circumstances. CRAZY RIGHT?!
I've definitely seen these guys say they don't think they're entitled to a 4K, as well.
Killer has to find, chase, down and hook 3 survivors in 80 seconds in order to avoid the hatch.
Yeah, sounds fair...Oh yea dude, totally. After 2 gens are done hatch is guaranteed for the fourth survivor.
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Well at least I know that Unbreakable is supposed to get you up and not down.SenzuDuck said:@Tsulan said:
Sure you can self save.
Deliverance and Unbreakable both do this.Ts ts ts
Yea lemme just deliverance on my second hook, or better yet use unbreakable on the hook, that seems reasonable. I know it takes you months and months of learning to figure out mechanics so I'll make it easy. that's not how those perks work.
Lets not forget you didn't even know how hatch works up until 4 weeks ago and now you're the born again hatch expert.
this whole conversation is akin to 4 survivors getting 4 gens done without dying and saying "Well the 5th gen should just complete itself because we've outplayed the killer"
Oh I know how the hatch works.
It opens and you press m1!
But this is getting old. Can't you come up with something new?1 -
Hatch is like Rancor, not NOED.0
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You honor me to much.SenzuDuck said:@Tsulan said:
Sorry, I can't take this serious anymore.
Not that I ever did. But now?I respect good streamers like panda. But those streamers don't have a "order me free food" button. Simply because they don't beg for food.
I know what begging means. Begging for attention by destroying things or by wearing inappropriate clothes, etc.
Well enough derailing. Back to the topic!
So I took a screenshot of a game that was impossible to win for the killer by your definition because you know, hatch was open.
and you went to my stream for some reason, went to the panels and read them, then came here to attack me over it? Lmao.
Imagine if you spent that amount of energy actually playing the game and being good at it.
I honestly love how it's obvious how much you hate me and how much it upsets you that people actually like me and watch me.
You're a cutie, Tsulan.
I just thought, that since everytime you lose an argument against me, you come up with the hatch discussion which happend months ago and which I had on a early morning train without coffee. The discussion wasn't even with you, but with 2 very nice mods.
So now I said ######### it, why not take a look on who is constantly harassing me and look what's behind his behavior.
Not even in my wildest dreams I could have expected THIS!
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked. Not my intention.
Want something to eat? Can I order you a pineapple pizza?1 -
@RSB said:
Could you be more biased, please? Because there MAY be one, or 2 people who still takes you seriously on this forum, thanks.
I feel entitled to my 4k, when i wreck bunch of survivors, but one still gets a free win.
Where is a free one kill for the killers, huh? If survivors can have one free escape, because "oh, the game must feel harder for the winning side at the end of the match", then why killers can't have a "go to the X spot and instantly kill random survivor, even if he did all gens by himself and literally deserves this escape"?
It's pretty sad you'd even try that tried and failed insult when you know you can't post anything that can stand on it's own resort to the tried and failed troll route.
You didn't wrecka bunch of survivors though, you killed 3, the 4ths still alive and thus that means you didn't wreck them.
Ah yes more nonsense about free and trying to hide that pesky sense of entitlement for something you don't deserve because you DIDN'T EARN IT.
@Tsulan said:
Insta heals, DS, 3 other teammates, keys, etc.
I can play this game too.Why does one side deserve a free win but the other one not?
Just look at the post above.That's assuming those get used oh and they're 1 time use, potato teammates, again they have to actually get used and objectives have to be met.
Again here's why the whole free nonsense from killer mains is pointless and childish.
**Here's the very definition of the term FREE: **
1.not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
2.without cost or payment.
Hmmn sure looks like that your definition of free doesn't correspond with actual facts and logic since the survivors have to either do 2 gens and 3 die.
The survivors have to do more than 2 gens and have 1 more gen done than survivors left alive.
All of the survivors must be gone for the last survivor to take the hatch once all the gens are powered.
The killer has to actually let the survivor get into the hatch and not try and stop them.
So as you both can see yet again the hatch isn't in any way shape or form a free escape.
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@Tsulan said:
You honor me to much.
I just thought, that since everytime you lose an argument against me, you come up with the hatch discussion which happend months ago and which I had on a early morning train without coffee. The discussion wasn't even with you, but with 2 very nice mods.So now I said [BAD WORD] it, why not take a look on who is constantly harassing me and look what's behind his behavior.
Not even in my wildest dreams I could have expected THIS!
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked. Not my intention.
Want something to eat? Can I order you a pineapple pizza?I'm not embarrassed about the food panel, lmao.
Like I said, people actually enjoy watching me, and I've had plenty of people ask if I've eaten today or had enough to drink considering my sometimes 12+ hours.
So heck yea I have a way for people to support me, it's no different from a donation panel or an amazon wishlist panel (I have both by the way).
But some people like to see where their money goes and those things allows it. Some people get a donation and order a take away with it, there's no difference except the person gets to choose my food instead.
For some reason you think these panels are drastically different..
LOL.
By the way, go back and look at that screenshot, don't forget it's impossible to get four kills once hatch is available.
Imagine actually earning four kills because you know it's possible and not come here to cry about the three man matches
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Ahh I've been expecting you.powerbats said:@RSB said:
Could you be more biased, please? Because there MAY be one, or 2 people who still takes you seriously on this forum, thanks.
I feel entitled to my 4k, when i wreck bunch of survivors, but one still gets a free win.
Where is a free one kill for the killers, huh? If survivors can have one free escape, because "oh, the game must feel harder for the winning side at the end of the match", then why killers can't have a "go to the X spot and instantly kill random survivor, even if he did all gens by himself and literally deserves this escape"?
It's pretty sad you'd even try that tried and failed insult when you know you can't post anything that can stand on it's own resort to the tried and failed troll route.
You didn't wrecka bunch of survivors though, you killed 3, the 4ths still alive and thus that means you didn't wreck them.
Ah yes more nonsense about free and trying to hide that pesky sense of entitlement for something you don't deserve because you DIDN'T EARN IT.
@Tsulan said:
Insta heals, DS, 3 other teammates, keys, etc.
I can play this game too.Why does one side deserve a free win but the other one not?
Just look at the post above.That's assuming those get used oh and they're 1 time use, potato teammates, again they have to actually get used and objectives have to be met.
Again here's why the whole free nonsense from killer mains is pointless and childish.
**Here's the very definition of the term FREE: **
1.not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
2.without cost or payment.
Hmmn sure looks like that your definition of free doesn't correspond with actual facts and logic since the survivors have to either do 2 gens and 3 die.
The survivors have to do more than 2 gens and have 1 more gen done than survivors left alive.
All of the survivors must be gone for the last survivor to take the hatch once all the gens are powered.
The killer has to actually let the survivor get into the hatch and not try and stop them.
So as you both can see yet again the hatch isn't in any way shape or form a free escape.
It's undeserved because potatoes can hide during the whole match in lockers and get the hatch. I've witnessed survivors hiding and doing nothing while I was hooked. Thx to the locker buff, I don't have to watch this anymore. (Weeee)
Or survivors that escaped through the hatch with a whooping 9k points and saying gg ez.
No ######### it was easy. He didn't do anything during the whole match.
As I said somewhere else. If the killer doesn't has a similar mechanic, it's not deserved.2 -
Sorry playing "perfectly" as killer means that you stopped them from doing 2 gens OR that you legit killed all 4 survivors, meaning that you caught the last guy before they could hatch. If you do neither of these things sorry, you did not play perfectly.
Killers saying "well where is the free kill??" Your free kill is either slugged on the ground or on a hook while the last guy is waiting for him to die. The fact this player isn't coming to make a save makes it a free kill, otherwise he gets saved and you have to catch them again. Do you know how many times I've crawled to a corner to avoid letting the last guy get killed or purposefully jumped into a locker allowing the killer to just hook me FOR FREE so the last guy could POTENTIALLY take the hatch? A lot. A hell of a lot. And I've had it done for me many times as well. It's part of the game, stop asking for free 4k's. You deserve NOTHING, go out and earn it.
I've seen PLENTY of games where the last survivor hasn't even been caught once by the killer. Chases and all, NEVER CAUGHT. You're telling me that you should just get that guy? LOL no. He deserves a CHANCE to escape at the very least. Note that I'm not saying he deserves the ESCAPE, he deserves the CHANCE to escape. Without hatch there is no chance to escape.
EDIT: Case and point https://1drv.ms/v/s!ArDQJhViBOPmlxw9d4QTcRKz-9Wk
The clip starts just after I see the Tapp crouch walking towards shack from the hill, at which point I used phase walk to get close. He was sneaky and went into the basement, I was almost positive of this, but just to be sure I didn't go down there right away until I looked around. I knew where the hatch was, and I knew he didn't (the third guy had JUST died and I walked past it as it opened just before I saw him). I knew that it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to have snuck past me and he had to be either on shack tile or the tile on the other side of the hill. In the time I looked around he could have POTENTIALLY made it to the tile on the other side of shack, but there was no way he moved towards the middle of the map because I would have seen him. And as you can see I catch the dude, BEFORE HE GOT THE HATCH, flat out gave it to him, and still got a double pip with 2 iri and 2 gold. This outcome is actually quite common for me EVEN AT RANK 1, and sometimes I give hatch like I do here or I take the 4k. If he got past me and took it LEGIT, guess what? I'd still totally double pip! So why should I be mad 1 guy got out if I'm still a Merciless Killer?
PS. Sorry for the bad video quality, it seems uploading it to my One Drive made it look like crap. Also this was the day after resets, so there is a good chance all these survivors are rank 1 players (as they are all sub rank 10, some even purple ranks which you can't do that fast after reset unless you no life the game for the entire day).
Post edited by thesuicidefox on1 -
@Tsulan said:
SenzuDuck said:@Tsulan said:
Sorry, I can't take this serious anymore.
Not that I ever did. But now?
I respect good streamers like panda. But those streamers don't have a "order me free food" button. Simply because they don't beg for food. I know what begging means. Begging for attention by destroying things or by wearing inappropriate clothes, etc.
Well enough derailing. Back to the topic!
So I took a screenshot of a game that was impossible to win for the killer by your definition because you know, hatch was open.
and you went to my stream for some reason, went to the panels and read them, then came here to attack me over it? Lmao.
Imagine if you spent that amount of energy actually playing the game and being good at it.
I honestly love how it's obvious how much you hate me and how much it upsets you that people actually like me and watch me.
You're a cutie, Tsulan.
You honor me to much.
I just thought, that since everytime you lose an argument against me, you come up with the hatch discussion which happend months ago and which I had on a early morning train without coffee. The discussion wasn't even with you, but with 2 very nice mods.So now I said [BAD WORD] it, why not take a look on who is constantly harassing me and look what's behind his behavior.
Not even in my wildest dreams I could have expected THIS!
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked. Not my intention.
Want something to eat? Can I order you a pineapple pizza?The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!
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@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
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SenzuDuck said:
@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
I love fish on pizza XD we are both monsters
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SenzuDuck said:
@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
SenzuDuck said:@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
My favourite is escargot though
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@Dead_by_David said:
SenzuDuck said:@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!
Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
SenzuDuck said:
@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!
Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
My favourite is escargot though
I can't handle you man I gotta go lmao
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SenzuDuck said:
@Dead_by_David said:
SenzuDuck said:@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!
Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
SenzuDuck said:
@Dead_by_David said:
The real insult here is putting pineapple on a pizza, this makes me ill!
Pineapple is great on pizza, it's those animals who have fish on pizza that are the problem.
My favourite is escargot though
I can't handle you man I gotta go lmao
I will take this as a victory xD
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That was a bad design, a single survivor wouldn’t likely be able to complete the gens and open the exit.Master said:@Cymer said:
The survivors always complain that NOED rewards killers for bad play.
But the hatch is like a free NOED in every game!
You can play perfectly as a killer but in the end you either have to slug one survivor (extremely fun and healthy gameplay) and search for the last survivor who is probably sitting in a corner or closet and is waiting for the other one to bleed out or die on the hook so he can go for the hatch or hook the poor one and hope that you find the hatch before the other one does.Win condition Hatch. 2 gens need to be done.
And don't think of killers like Freddy who has absolutely no counterplay against a hatch-standoff!
He cannot grap a survivor unless he but them into dreamstate. If they aren't in dreamworld, they can simply walk up to the hatch. Buttdance and go as they please. 0 counterplay!For survivors there are other rules than for killer.
Just look what happened to the hatch closing mechanic
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Mostly Pointless Math warning!
Ok so survivors say that Killers are not entitled to the 4k just because he got a 3k on potentially potato survivors. Ok fair, however:
That 4th survivor also is not entitled to an escape just because he outlived 3 potentially tunneled survivors. And maybe hid the whole game without helping ect.
Thus given 1 survivor, 1 killer since neither of them are entitled to anything they should both have a 50% chance of winning
All roles should be just as likely to achieve their win condition as each other on average in regards to prior probability. Or in otherwords Survivor WR = Killer WR
Since the 1 survivor here only has a 1/4 chance of being the living survivor in this situation and a 1/2 chance of winning given it that means a survivor should have a 12.5% chance of winning via a 1v1
Since the Killer only wins when the survivors are dead that means the highest his winrate can be is 50%. Since that is his winrate given a 1v1 and prior to that point he had a chance of losing without getting to the 1v1. (The 12.5 odds for survivor already takes this fact into account BTW).
SWR = KWR so if the Killer wins 50% of the time then the Survivors must ALSO win 50% of the time
Without violating the 1v1 situation this is impossible. Thus survivor winrate and killer winrate are both bellow 50%.
If all winrates are below 50% then the average game cannot be a 0 - 2k as this would have >=50% of survivors winning on average or a WR above 50%.
Since a 3k needs to be just as likely as 4k due to the fact that if a 4k is a 50/50 once you get to 3k then there is a 3k at equal probability as 4k's.
SWR = KWR and SWR given a 4k is 0% 3k is 25% 2k is 50% 1k is 75% and 0k is 100%
Thus the expected WR for everyone is 30% exactly with an average of 2.8 kills per game. 2.8/4 = 0.7, 1-0.7 = 0.3 = 30%
4k and 3k being 60% of games means that the remaining 40% of games have an average of 1.7 killsIncreasing the average kills per game decreases the number of 4k's and 3k's. Since decreasing the number of 4k's causes the average to go down faster than increasing the number of 2k's ect makes it go up that means we can't have more kills on average.
Same but in reverse for a lower kill average.
Thus a fair hatch means a winrate of 30%
No analysis. You have fun with that number
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@Tsulan Regarding the whole "survivor hides all game and does nothing to help then takes hatch" situation...
It's a legit strategy. A lame strategy, but still legit. In the same category as 4 man slugs or basement Insidious LF, in that it's lame but not going to be very effective. I honestly have not seen players do this at high ranks because, well, these players don't rank up by doing nothing. They escape, they get BP, but at the end of the day without doing gens or making saves they won't rank up very fast if at all. They will get iri Unbroken and bronze Benevolence. This means in order to safety pip they need bronze Evader which requires at least 1 chase or for them to hide near the killer. In order to pip they will need iri Evader which requires a LOT of chases or hiding near the killer almost all game. Either scenario they risk getting caught.
But this situation doesn't mean that hatch is a bad thing, much in the same way that basement Insidious LF doesn't prove that camping is a bad thing. Would the game be better without it? Yea probably. But really how often do you see these tactics? Not often. Most survivors will actually play the game to some degree to get BP or to rank up, or just because by helping even a little they are more likely to escape. Sorry but as lame as it might be, it's no reason to remove hatch from the game.
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@Poweas said:
No, stupid. Adrenaline is the survivors NOED. It doubles the amount of hits u take to get down and NOED halves it. Stop complaining about the hatch. Slug for your 4 man or stop thinking your entitled to a 4 man. Honestly.What? If i am uninjured, the killer needs 4 hits to take me down? I really should use that perk then.
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