Hook Suicide really needs to be dealt with.
It's no different than a Survivor disconnecting from the match, only they dont get punished for it. It completely ruins matches.
Honestly probably the best solution would just be to removing the self-unhook attempt mechanic and struggle state mechanic. Unhooking yourself can be an exclusive trait to the Deliverance perk, Slippery Meat and Up The Ante can be reworked, Luck offerings can just be removed.
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Another reason why solo Q sucks.
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Why I swf now
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It's ridiculous how it's been ignored till today despite being such a glaring issue, and it's actually baffling why some people defend such mechanic.
We don't even need to remove self unhook attempt, just remove penalty and game will be lot more healthier.
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They could try a weekend with no penalty and see what happens.
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The unhook attempt action I have no issue with usually, because some will do it knowing others aren't going to get to them. Sure, suiciders use it, but to remove it removes those moments during desperate times.
I'd be happy getting rid of the struggle phase skill checks. They barely serve any purpose.
The only issue is that, should someone want to kill themselves, unhooking them won't often change things as they'll just wait for the killer to return to down them again. May take extra seconds out of the killer's time, but ultimately they will die anyway.
It is very hard to deal with. Someone who tries to escape a hook because maybe they're new or think they won't be rescued could be seen as a suicider to another. There's no effective way to make a judgement call because the view on them is subjective from the people who see it from their angle - not knowing the reason why.
The only way to realistically deal with it is behind the scenes: to log how many times a survivor does this in the system, and if it happens more than expected then they get a penalty ban.
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It can be annoying when it happens, but it's a negligible issue. Matches don't last long anyway, and with a person out early, they finish even sooner. So at that point I take it easy and use it as an opportunity to earn some Boldness and Altruism bloodpoints without caring what my teammates are doing or if the killer is sweating their fingerprints off. When I go down I simply move on to the next match. It's pretty relaxing.
Generally I don't hold it against my teammates if they DC or hook suicide, since there are many valid reasons for them to want to do so, and I don't believe it's an appropriate response to keep people imprisoned in a match they've no interest in playing. 90% of hook suicides I've witnessed happen during a match that from the very beginning is obviously going to be frustrating or impossible (like 2 downs at 5 gens, or <10 second chases against a Nurse or Blight), while on the other hand people are going to stick around for a match even if the killer very clearly has the advantage as long as they at least get the opportunity to play the game for a bit. It's more important to solve the issues that make people want to get out of the match ASAP instead of depriving them of the means to do so or punishing them.
Also, before I learned to leave them alone, people I rescued that had been trying to hook suicide never, ever contributed to the match afterwards. They either went AFK under the hook, ran directly into the killer, or even followed me around dropping pallets, making noises, and trying to bodyblock me. So yeah, just let people move on lol. You'll be in a new match in 5 minutes anyway.
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Honestly the survivors who just stay afk till i return to the hook i just walk up them shake my head no and swing away. Basically telling them to get over themselves and keep playing lol. Sometimes they don't like that. But i play killer for everyone to have equal footing. And i personally feel bad for the other survivors so i can't help but go easier once it happens. Some killers double down and go even harder, i don't see the appeal.
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They should just get rid of trying to get yourself off the hook unless you're running Deliverance or Slippery Meat.
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So, you want to remove people yeeting off a hook per random chance?
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I disagree with this just because it would kill any chance a person could get off hook esp if they know for a fact someone isn't going to come get them
Especially when you get bullied by the other survivors
I once was forced to stay in a match and die on first hook by other survivors they kept fake unhooking me until my timer ran out just because I was a solo q I would have happily forced myself out if I knew that I was going to be forced to sit through that
I usually don't dc and I didn't want to dc there because I brought a flan I would have happily attempted to unhook myself but you can't unhook if someone is fake unhooking you
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If no one’s coming to unhook me and I’ve been hanging long enough that I’m about to blow into 2nd stage, there’s at least a tiny chance I can get off the hook so I’m going to take it. I mean, I wasn’t needed through a whole hook stage - what, now I am?
I don’t think the mechanic should be changed. It would do nothing to fix what the real issue is and that’s suddenly being down a player for reasons outside normal gameplay. A player that would have previously made the decision to hurry things along isn’t suddenly going to re-engage in a particular match just because escape attempts are removed. They’ll stand still, run up to the killer, etc.
Also suicide suggests they hooked themselves which isn’t possible. (In my best Maine accent) Sometimes, dead is better.
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What about those lucky successful attempts. Like if I'm hooked and there's another survivor who can't save me because they are getting chased by killer?
Yesterday I managed to escape for that reason in end-game. I got lucky and he had hooked me next to the gate I'd opened and the other people had left and only Kate and me where left in game.
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Bots will help. Then you can crush them without worrying about whether they’ll die on hook before you’re ready for a game to end.
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No, I think the self unhook attempt needs some sort of penalty to it.
Otherwise nothing stops you from just spamming it as much as you can to see if you get lucky and I certainly wouldn't like the first hook on people being inconsistent on whether anyone even needs to bother unhooking or not.
We could definitely limit it to 3 attempts and change the penalty for it, such as an increased healing time or decreased repair speed after being unhooked, but just removing it is not a good idea IMO.
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But people dc/suicide for any reason under the sun.
First you have the semi good reasons like a very strong nurse or Blight that definitely need a nerf.
But then you have a giant list of reasons that every one justifys for himself but are just crap.
Here a list of things I saw myself:
-Got downed to fast
-don't like the map
-don't like the killer
-don't like that one perk/addon the killer is using
-don't like the perk a mate uses
-my stealthy rescue wasn't so stealthy
-I messed up the bilnd
-a mate messed up a blind
And my absolute Favorit basement is main building so my loops are more risky.
So you see there are tons of reasons for those people and I could go on. The problem is when you press rdy you commit to playing to playing the game and the game is some what random so you commit to this to and you really ruin the round for four other people. That's why we have a penalty for dcs and suiciding to much should be punished to.
If you don't like the game/only like the game when it fits your plan and your vision of enjoyment you should stop playing and maybe switch to a single player game where you can customize your experience
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Struggle phase skillchecks should be for Bloodpoints only. No ignore 2 for death/fail 3 for death (currently a fail is -20s each).
Self-Unhook ability should be reworked to make it unable to be used to force an immediate stage 2. There’s a variety of ways this could be implemented. Examples:
- Only one single 4% chance self-unhook attempt allowed. The one self-unhook attempt is only allowed in the following two situations:
- Only one or zero living survivors standing, everyone else living is downed or hooked (chance at turning around doomed situation)
- Last 5s of the first hook stage (last second attempt if no one came to rescue)
Slippery Meat and Luck is reworked entirely. Deliverance while it is actively usable is the one exception that can be used immediately.
2 - Only one single 4% chance self-unhook attempt allowed. The one self-unhook attempt is only allowed in the following two situations:
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I agree with you that some people give up for dumb reasons or too easily, and there have been a few games where I wish they'd stuck around since even with 3 we managed to make a lot of progress, but this is after all a game meant to be fun and none of us can really know the circumstances behind someone's decision to abandon the match by any means.
Maybe the "fast down" was due to a hit that felt unfair or an unfortunate spawn in a deadzone. Maybe they don't have the energy to play on a map the killer brought where (s)he has a huge advantage. Maybe they don't want to deal with the 3rd Legion in a row, or Alchemist Ring Blight, or Starstruck Nurse, or some other highly mobile and powerful killer with slowdown upon slowdown when their wish is to play a few relaxed matches before going to bed. I can't and won't blame anyone for not wanting to put up with a stressful game.
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I mean yeah I can understand them to but the right move then is to don't play. It's what you sign up to when you play dbd you know what can happen so be mature enough to stick with your decision or just don't start and I really don't mean that as an insult or try to be mean but I think when there is stuff that brings you personally to say I want out of that round asap it might be better to take a break and hope for nerfs
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Their decision makes that a pretty much guaranteed loss for 3 other people though, as well as ruining the match for the killer who had to sacrifice consumable addons to load in. Being able to leave matches early by any means is supposed to be more for emergencies than whims. Nothing you said is invalid, it just doesn't factor for all of the collateral damage that gets caused.
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Considering how... inconsistent to put it mildly DbD is, they're probably loading into the game not expecting to find themselves in an unpleasant situation, which are a minority of matches excluding some unlucky days. And I hope that anyone who DCs or suicides 2 matches in a row understands that by that point they need to let it rest for a while.
Of course there's that, it's just that personally I don't find any individual match important since they're short and I usually play through several each night so isolated annoyances are insignificant. Hook suicides aren't common enough to leave a strong impression that there's something seriously wrong that needs to be looked at, plus I think that the whole process of finding a match, waiting in the lobby, loading in, and running around for 2 minutes just to leave almost immediately with nothing to show for it is by itself deterrent enough for would-be "serial hook suiciders" to prefer quitting the game instead of wasting their time loading in and out of matches for fifteen minutes.
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If you get multiple in a row, it doesn't matter how short they are. Also don't forget the aforementioned consumables, which also includes survivor items/addons/offerings just as much as the killer consumables as well. It doesn't matter how quick your matches are if you keep getting forced losses back to back. Not to mention just knowing that someone else would literally put their whims above your ability to play the game as intended, let alone actually have a chance of winning.
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But a dc or suicide ruins that game and they arent that rare atm and when you are like me and most of my friends adults with kids and stuff like that you may play ten games a night and when you have two or three of these guys it has quite the impact for me that's why I play less and less because it's horrible as a surv atm and even as killer it's not that much fun because you either have an early dc or suicide or the real hard guys that's all I see atm
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In that case maybe it's the best for everyone to take a break and hope that their luck has improved when they next hop into the game. Judging from my own experience, the chances of getting several of those teammates in a row are low. Maybe this is more of a killer problem, if they're using a character or playstyle that people tend to dislike going against.
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Why should the people who want to play the game, gross underside and all, have to take a break because of fairweather players? Are the fairweather ones not the ones who should be taking a break instead of ruining the games of others? Again, its just a complete lack of personal responsibility, and suiciding on hook is a loophole that gets used to avoid the DC penalty (which ironically forces said players to take a break, growing longer the more they do it.)
The most unfortunate thing about the whole situation is that disconnecting due to hackers is sometimes necessary, so when it happens those people actually get punished more than the people who suicide on hook to bypass the penalty.
Edit: Also, don't use anecdotes to try to downplay or invalidate the experiences of others, this is arguably one of the worst games to rely on personal anecdotes for. People's experiences vary wildly, whether we agree or disagree with their perceptions due to them. Its an easy assumption to make, but it just takes some mindfulness to avoid.
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Hook suicide is a symptom of an unbalanced game. Killers can always come back from a bad start with strategies, survivors don't have a way to come back. If survivors feel the match is unwinnable, it is why they suicide.
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It's amazing how many people are making excuses for themselves.
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Killers cannot always just come back with strategies. Against good survivors, especially SWFs you are sometimes just screwed depending on who you are playing or what the survivors are running. Also, survivors suicide on hook for a lot more than just feeling a match is unwinnable. I've had people suicide on the first hook of the game more times than I could count.
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If you get rid of it, you'll see more DC's and more AFK Survivors.
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At least DC's throw out match results, so if nothing else the devs internal statistics would be more meaningful for them. Also, aren't those just the two options killers have regarding refusing to continue matches? You're correct that the entitlement won't go away, but it'll at least be less sanctioned.
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Maybe not always but a majority of the time. There is no opportunity for survivors to come back from a bad start unless the killer simply screws up royally. If someone goes down within 15 seconds of the match starting, then you can pretty much know already the match is a goner. Survivors need a gen or two done before someone is hooked because the killer gets so much pressure from someone being hooked or slugged.
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Addressing the symptoms and not the cause is always a bad idea. Find out why people hook suicide and fix those reasons. You might get lucky with an equivalent bloodletting or penicillin, but nothing beats specialized treatment.
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Remove the luck (4%) and re-work the offerings, UTA (Up The Ante) and Slippery Meat
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so close yet so far. There is the spark of a meaningful situation being addressed (the scaling efficiency cap and the importance of survivors bursting as much progress as possible at the start of the match, as they get weaker as the killer gains pressure) but then it skips the rest of that situation (the inverse for killer, meaning they need to minimize progress quickly or suffer from being unable to keep up.)
Believe it or not, the fact it works that way is actually bad for both sides.
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As I said I'm sure that no one individual player is going around joining and abandoning games repeatedly, and I've only encountered a few people who would not rather squeeze as many bloodpoints out of a match as possible even if it's a lost cause. In fact I've been in more games that made me wish people would give up instead of letting the killer farm hooks than games where they leave the first time they get outplayed lol. Also I see more DCs than suicides despite the penalty.
And unfortunately the nature of the game is such that a lot of your enjoyment is in the hands of other players and at the mercy of their ineptitude and toxicity. This is unavoidable. Sometimes quitting the game really is the best thing to do.
In response to your edit which I just noticed: I'm aware of this, I just want to make it clear where I'm coming from by presenting my experiences. Also I assume that anything which isn't a routine subject of complaints on here and Reddit isn't as big an issue as it might seem.
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Perhaps.
I was merely remarking that this won't actually fix the issue. It's just gonna shift it.
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Good? It means they're sitting out of queue instead of ruining other peoples' games. And AFK is easy to report, given they're just straight up not doing anything.
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If survivors go down in 15 seconds of the match starting something has gone seriously wrong. The only way that is going to happen is if a killer spawns next to an AFK survivor.
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Queues will also be longer as a result and less people will play the game.
Whether or not that is good is up to you.
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Theres usually a reason like being downed too fast (mmr problem) or teammates doing nothing (solo q needing buffs problem) either way the round becomes unenjoyable
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Agree totally. When I play killer and so dunce decides to suicide, dc or otherwise acts as an idiot, I play in a style that benefits all.
For me, I aim to 2 hook the remaining survivors, so I get my chases and play towards what I would have done, but once a survivor is hooked twice I will leave them for the rest of the match, and once all survivors are hooked twice I help them towards gens to do then let them escape.
That way, the game can still be exciting, without anyone losing out because of one moron.
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I mean you are kinda right but it also goes in reverse. Not everyone plays nurse or Blight and with the weaker killers you need to get a hook before the first two gens pop because you need that pressure. That's why I like to play legion and plague because I can stall the game quite good and can lift some of that need to quickly kill pressure of me but guess what survivor don't like that either
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The devs when they nerfed Reassurance: "It stopped a survivor from being sacrificed, against their will." The rage quitters literally have the ear of the devs.
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No. They're doing it because they're entitled and they personally don't like how the match is going. They do it every time a killer buff happens or until the community sets its sights on the next killer to nerf. The devs notice all the DCs towards 1 particular killer or perk, and so they nerf it. It's rewarding temper tantrums.
People are quick to give survivors the benefit of the doubt. But killer? "They just camp and tunnel because they want easy wins." Not gonna explore the causes of that, are we now?
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Uh. The only people that'd stop playing over a change targeted at ragequitters are people that would be quitting out of games that don't go how they want it. Ragequitters being in queue isn't a good thing. Yeah, you get faster games, just for them to ruin it anyways. A slightly longer queue time in return for less odds of playing with/against a ragequitter, and it being way easier to report if they AFK/sandbag is a win.
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Which is why the reason needs to be addressed, and not the symptom.
As far as camp/tunnel I spend more time playing Killer than soloq Surv, and I have no need to camp/tunnel to regularly win. I only need to counter the cheese of 59s saves with the 45-59s proxy camp, or punish the BT bodyblock early game with a tunnel. I only need to use such uncouth tactics when their Survivor equivalent is used against me.
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Players will kill themselves for literally anything. Hell, just a couple days ago there was a feng who killed herself on the first hook of the match, after 3 generators had already been completed. The Killer wasnt even camping or anything, he had already started travelling across the map, and she just started killing herself immediatley upon being placed on the hook, despite the fact that we were winning.
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Yes, but I think the more common issues would be better suited to addressing them specifically as opposed to a blanket change.
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Yeah who cares, allowing survivors to spam it is still better than giving them rights to freely disconnect from the game.
This is extremely common cause of bad games, this is certainly one of a biggest problem DbD has.
So by your logic this is most important thing to address.
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It's been said before, I'll say it again: you cannot force someone to play a match they don't want to play. Tweak all the mechanics you want, it won't happen. This is true of all online games, not just DBD.
You can, however, try not to ruin the game for other players. Using bots is one solution. You can also backfill players into a match like Overwatch does, but given that they will likely be thrown into a losing scenario, they should receive a tremendous amount of BP compensation for doing so (something like starting them off with all of the BP the quitter earned, adding in whatever the backfilled player earns in the remainder of the match, and multiplying it by something crazy like 5x).
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You can force lot more people to play a match they don't want to play though, how many times you see killer afk or disconnect? they aren't as common as survivor counterpart.
"removing free rights to DC does nothing" is just plain incorrect, punishing them WILL make game better.
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