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Killers are the ones who should get base kit perks, not survivors...
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LOL what? Reassurance seen in most of your matches? Buddy, I haven't seen that once, not even on full teams of Rebeccas. Don't spread fake news just to give yourself something to talk about. Remember that you are just a single person, not the media, there is no need for you to say fake stuff or make it bigger than it really is, as you have no need to get views. Now, to your other "points":
- Because the base BT only really allows you to put some distance between you and a killer who will, more than likely, tunnel you again. And until the game remains like this, where even the weakest player will eventually get you because of Bloodlust ALONE (no skill involved), there is no denying that. And that is IF you manage to get to a pallet, considering some terrible maps can even generate no more than FIVE pallets. FIVE. Hear me? FIVE. But I guess that thing didn't make it in your brainstorming.
- Even if said numbers were to be lower now, and I can assure you that they are not, since every single killer is a sweaty tryhard nowadays, 61% is still a tad too much for anyone that considers the wider perspective of a game's general balance, and not only that of the side they play because they like to have it easy. 61% kill rate is way too high. 61% escape rate would be too high, although the vast majority of killer players deserve to suffer.
You want killers to get BUFFED? When they have 55 different gen regression perks, while survivors can only really count on a few good ones? When there is the Nemesis' perk, Eruption, which makes you not do ANYTHING for TWENTYFIVE seconds? When now gen regression perks not only don't need you to kick gens, anymore, but also tell you where survivors are, eliminating even the hunting part of the game and reducing stealth even more than the awful state it always was in? When killers can still hit you on the other side of a window you vaulted 2 seconds ago and were already far from? When the perk excuse you are using, Dead Hard, still doesn't work much of the time, just like old Dead Hard? When the last 3 gens can still be next to each other, and a sweaty killer will make a match like that last ages more than it should? When stuff like 3 genning and exit gates being next to each other shouldn't even exist? When you are rewarded for failing to hit a survivor in 15 seconds, so you become faster? Buddy, trust me, get a grip on reality.
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Proof it.
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Nonsense.
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Corrupt intervation and Shadowborn should be Base kit for killers, wi th BT and UN for survivors. I remember when BHVR said they are thinking about Early game mode, but, they abandoned that. Honestly, now i feel the same thing before 6.1 as killer, gens flying, healing everywhere, but as solo survivor i really be into the trash, devasted and angry after 6.1.
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I was going to address your points, but after reading all of it... this is either a massive bait or you're actually delusional. The sad part is that I can't quite figure it out which one it is, but this is some S-tier comedy material. A copypasta if I may so.
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Killers got an overwhelming basekit buff last patch when gen taking much longer, STBFL built-in. Killers have been getting perks base-kit for years and survivors have not gotten any until now because BHVR is finding the game is not balanced and survivors are leaving.
Killers are more than OK.
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STBFL built in
The absurd implication that measly 2 stacks (i think it's even lower than 2) is "SBTFL built in". Stop exaggerating.
Gens taking longer
In practice, survivors rush gens even more now, so the real difference is negligible if even existent. Lots of good regression perks and gen slowdown perks were nerfed too. So just saying 10+ seconds without taking the whole patch into context and reality of games is ignorant.
Killers have been getting perks base-kit for years
What? I am still waiting for the so-called "early game collapse" 😚 Any moment now...
Survivors have not gotten any until now because BHVR is finding the game is not balanced and survivors are leaving.
Are you seriously implying that survivors were getting worse treatment over the years until now? It took 5 years to nerf DH, most maps are survivor-sided, DS was meta for god knows how long, infinites, instant flashlight saves, the list goes on and on... They literally nerfed DH, and still made it strong. They nerfed DS and still added DS 2.0 (off the record). And in a few weeks' time, they massively buffed base kit BT, and are now planning to add base kit unbreakable. The so-called "killer patch" didn't even last a month lol.
In all honesty, I feel like 6.10 wasn't even the goal of buffing killers, it was more of "let's change the meta so the game feels fresh, but continue following the same direction and make the same mistakes afterwards in subsequent patches". It was a bluff, the game will feel the same very soon as it was in pre-patch. They're already back-tracking on some of the changes they've made.
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Not exaggerating. Increasing the killer animations on everything is almost a game breaking change. Survivors don't make as much of a distance after a hit which is not necessarily game breaking but it is too much of a buff for killers.
Yes, only a couple of gen regression perks were "slightly" nerfed but then other gen regression perks were massively buffed.
What did survivors get? No Dead Hard replacement. No Iron Will replacement. No Decisive Strike Replacement. DS couldn't be exploited like Off the Record. It doesn't punish tunneling which is why there are so many more tunnelers now.
Survivors have been nerfed since the game came out while killers have been constantly buffed. I don't see that much back tracking, they still haven't reverted the gens back to 80 seconds or the other killer buffs. It is so easy for killers to down all the survivors, they have got to add a way for survivors to get back up. Killers don't have these issues.
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There have been a bunch of times where I caught a survivor holding W just before they got to a pallet. If it wasnt for the -10% recovery and the shorter speed boost that wouldnt have happened. Same can be said for the 90s gens. Ive seen so many gens get stopped at like 99%. Again, if it wasnt for the buffs those scenarios would not have happened
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Not exaggerating. Increasing the killer animations on everything is almost a game breaking change. Survivors don't make as much of a distance after a hit which is not necessarily game breaking but it is too much of a buff for killers.
"Game breaking change" in what world? Most of the time you still make it to the pallet or window, and if you didn't - you're likely in dead zone which means that you chose the wrong pathing (i.e. your mistake). These "shorter animations" literally don't do anything significant because survivors can still get to safe spots and continue looping as per usual. That's the only thing that matters - if a survivor can get to another loop or not and most of the time they can.
Yes, only a couple of gen regression perks were "slightly" nerfed but then other gen regression perks were massively buffed.
"Slightly nerfed", let's see:
- Ruin from 200 % to 100 % (literal 50 % nerf) + adding auto deactivation after someone is killed
- Pop relative % value instead of a flat value. Even at 99 % of gen progression, you still get less gen regression than the previous pop.
- Corrupt auto deactivates after the first down basically preventing any killer from getting a snowballing early game. Huge nerf.
- Thanatophobia is dead lmao.
Some of the killer perks were buffed decently (eruption only comes to mind). But I'd take old Pop over Eruption any day, same as an old ruin. It's still not as strong pre-patch gen repression perks. Jolt without cooldown is not a significant buff (with some exceptions, like Nurse)
No Dead Hard replacement.
Dead hard is arguably even stronger nowadays. You just need how to use it, and it's really not that hard.
No DS strike replacement
You literally got DS 2.0 - Off the record. In some ways, it's even stronger than the old DS. What are you talking about?
DS couldn't be exploited like Off the Record?
And somehow, this is a BAD change?
Survivors have been nerfed since the game came out while killers have been constantly buffed
I mean, for a good reason lol? Have you seen the early DBD? Why is this even a discussion?
It is so easy for killers to down all the survivors, they have got to add a way for survivors to get back up
If you constantly get slugged as 4 people, then honestly you're really awful at the game. Instead of asking Behavior to add base kit perks to help you with your bad gameplay decisions, I'd suggest using it as a learning experience and getting better. It's REALLY not that hard to not get downed 4 people at the same time lol.
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So you are proving my point. Thank you.
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Killers got a fake buff. Survivor got a basekit buff, and now they want another basekit buff. Players should stop playing killers. I stopped playing Killer a long time ago (with the exception of a few games that were necessary for Rift, but I've always regretted it). Playing Killer is not fun, playing Survivor is much more fun. So have fun with your 10 minute lobbies while waiting for a killer to play with you. I've been there, I've seen those times.
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There have been a bunch of times where I caught a survivor holding W just before they got to a pallet. If it wasnt for the -10% recovery and the shorter speed boost that wouldnt have happened.
I can relate to this on some maps, but only on a few. I think the more accurate reality is that "HOLD W to gain distance" was nerfed, but there is really no significant and consistent difference in getting to a pallet/window. On most maps, this is not an issue.
Same can be said for the 90s gens. Ive seen so many gens get stopped at like 99%.
Not sure what survivors you're playing against, but most survivors in my games stick to gen to complete it even if it costs them a down (as they should). I rarely see 99 % of gens left alone.
Some scenarios got buffed, and some nerfed. For example, a nerf of corrupt pretty much killed early game gen pressure of a killer. In 80 % or so games, 2 gens are almost guaranteed to be popped after 1st down (+ injury if you're lucky). Lots of global gen regression perks have been nerfed (ruin, corrupt, thana), and the killer gen meta has been moved more to control 3 gen with individual gen kicking perks.
I personally liked the global regression/slow meta more, because it incentivized the killer to pressure multiple survivors/locations. Nowadays though, the meta is more of camping/patrolling specific generators and focusing survivors smartly.
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You wrote it wrong. I correct it for you: "Your point is that killers "IN HIGH MMR" are "NOT" overpowered right now "AND NEVER WERE".
Data prove it. 61% killer quote means, in one trial 2 survivors escape, in one trial 1 survivor escape. There is a difference of 12%, meaning, and it is known, that killers in low MMR get more 4k than killers in high MMR, so that killers in high MMR suffer.
It has always been like this, it is like this now and it will always be like this, thanks to BHVR, that killer is the "Kellerkind" (deprived und unloved child). And you know what? A match DbD needs 5 players, four players who play survivor and 1 player who plays killer. We once had a time when survivor like me had to wait 10 minutes for matches. If killers are constantly disadvantaged, as has been happening since 2016, why would anyone still play killer for entitled survivors? Player who play killer are already rare 👇️(every evening in Europe right now)
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If you want to balance a game you have to balance it around the better players, not the newbies. This is a simple matter of logic. Otherwise a game goes downhill.
You for sure want this easy solution: you can't pick, if you can play survivor or killer, the game decides what role you have to play. Like the idea? Or how do you want motivate enough players to play as killer? Tell me.
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Since survivors get borrowed time and unbreakable DURING the game killers should get a full 2 minute corrupt intervention at the start of the game and a perk that works either during the game or end game (NOED or No Way Out). Personally I don't want NOED due to perfering different hexes during the game like haunted grounds, plaything and blood favor.
Yes we have built in tier 1 brutal strength and a decrease of cool down after an attack but those are WEAKER versions.
Survivors may take longer to get up when not using any of the helpful perks but they can do it multiple times which makes it automatically more powerful. Borrowed time is strong/very helpul (and yes should be in the game as base kit) and only is made stronger through the actual perk.
No way out would be my preferred choice of an endgame perk killers should get for a number of reasons. 1- it rewards for not tunneling. 2- it promotes not camping. 3-by actually equipping the perk in the build it just adds more time to the counter (like borrowed time). 4- it can create extra pressure for the new mori system.
Corrupt and No Way Out are my two choices what about yours?
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Where did <1% come from? They didn't release breakdowns of any MMR brackets to my knowledge (feel free to correct me if i'm mistaklen,) so you're using a made up statistic in conjunction with existing ones which skews your perspective.
Kinda like how you ignored when the devs said there was a +/-12% variance between killers and claimed their average is "across the board" performance.
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I don't think you've played much Agitation. It's nowhere near guaranteed that you get to basement. The survivor would have to be looping near shack anyway.
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IDEALLY the game would be balanced in a way that it is fair at low MMR by being intuitive in what is/isn't efficient play, while simultaneously blocking excessive exploitation in high level. That shift is why its currently very survivor sided higher up, while killers who can keep up end up being sweat elementals because of it. It should have the same style of play at all levels, just with people making less mistakes at higher level and that still fitting within the same gameplay loop as lower levels.
This game is unbalanced as hell, though. A lot of it is far more balanced than its ever been in the past, but its nowehere near where it needs to be to be a healthy game. They just don't understand how to properly limit too many elements in the game, just let the extremes counterbalance each other and call it a day... which is why high MMR always ends up an exploitation fest. There shouldn't really be as much of a deviation between levels of MMR if they actually got it right.
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It can't be a fake buff even if you look at stats. It took a leap to 61% killrates. I can definitely feel it in games, it is very hard to make distance from the killer now. Survivors are going down quickly with not many options.
There's not a shortage of killers.
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As I proved with the screenshot, every evening in Europe killers get the 100% bonus. Survivors have to wait for lobbys. So tell me about shortage. And the 61% kill rate is a number without worth, the 12% difference from high to low MMR is.
BHVR should post the numbers for 4k in low MMR, for 4k in high MMR, the numbers for swf and solo q in low MMR and high MMR, and so on.
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Not everyone lives in Europe and this is what is looks like in the states rn.
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This is proof. The screenshot shows RPD background, saying that is a present screenshot. And it shows 100% incentive for killers. So it proves my point.
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Queue bonuses aren't a blanket thing like that, they take more factors into account. While it does prove that the bonus isn't stuck on survivor, it doesn't necessarily say much about something like # or even % of people queueing as killer. That doesn't stop people from doomposting about how nobody wants to play survivor because thats where their bonus is, but just clarifying that applies here as well.
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I have to bring your attention to one simple fact: if players want to play a game of DbD it needs 4 players for the role of survivor and 1 player for the role of killer. If it is true, and it is, that every evening around 10pm there is a lack of killers now in Europe, how can this be healed by nerfing killers again? If, e. g., 10 players refuse to play killer, 40 players for survivor are unable to play at this very moment.
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No, because thats ignoring all of the other factors that are tying into that number, like MMR. The matchmaker works by starting accurate and expanding to be less accurate to get more possibilities of matches, and all that bonus means is that you would be helping the most amount of people who have been waiting if you choose X over Y. If there was no MMR or matchmaking critereon based on location/skill/rank/etc, then you would be correct, but its a bit of a correlation vs causation distinction.
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All variants of MMR still need 5 players, 4 players for the role of survivor and 1 player for the role of killer. While I am lower MMR as killer, because I nearly never play killer with the exception of progress in rift and my survivors are newbies, I can watch streamers, who play high MMR. All of us need 4 more players to play a match of DbD. This is fact. And if European streamers get the 100% BP incentive and I being low get the incentive and chat says, that they all get the incentives, this is, how it is.
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Youre oversimplifying the process while ignoring how it works. Yes, every match needs 5 players, but how quickly any given match will find survivors and killers of equal MMR is going to vary, just like it does between regions, at different times, etc. Its an extremely chaotic combination of numbers at any given time, which is why its not a static universal bonus but rather an individual one based on when you are joining the matchmaking pool.
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I am glad we could agree on the fact, that a match of DbD needs 4 players for the role of survivor and 1 player for the role of killer. And that if 10 players refuse to play killer, 40 survivors are unable to play as survivors, at the given moment, in this region, in the proper MMR, while breathing and sitting at the chair... did i forget something? You overcomplicate a simple fact: it needs 5 players to play a match of DbD. Do you want to change the matchmaking, that the game tells you, what role you have to play? So that the game says you: ok, you are the killer although you wanted to play survivor?
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Look up any of Peanits posts explaining how it works if my explanations didn't make sense. I'm not overcomplicating anything, just stating that your screenshot didn't prove anything. Again, its a common statistical misconception.
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That's one specific area and who knows why, maybe all the killer mains teams up on SWF after winning all day as killer.
In North America, it is 100% survivor bonus about 99% of the day. I've only seen a 50% killer bonus one or two times and it immediately goes back to survivor. The game is broken in favor of killer.
Are you wanting 4Ks all the time even at high MMR? 4Ks should be rare, it shouldn't be so normal for killers to 4K all the time. How would you feel if survivors 4E, normally?
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To be frank, I am quite pleased that you are not going to address that. Not only because I know that you were not going to say anything factual, but also because that just further reinforces the fact that you don't really know what to say. Let's leave it at that then, shall we? Everyone is happy.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
there is no point in arguing this because forum members are very diverse; some are in low mmr, medium mmr, and some high. there's always going to be a group of people who won't agree because one group's reality is not always the other group's reality.
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That is one region, Europe. I am under the impression that Europe is an important market for BHVR, or not?
Furthermore, if the bloodpoint incentive was just one time, it would be a random event. But it is every evening now, for 3 or 4 evenings, from 9 pm to 11 pm. It is in low MMR, where I live, and in high MMR. I can see it watching killer streamers.
And the game is broken for survivors. Pick your favorite killer streamer in high MMR (unless you are in high MMR) and write down some informations: how many victories, how many 0k, 1k, 2k, 3k and 4k does he achieve. How many bloodpoints does the high mmr killer streamer gain, and so on. Please post me these information to prove your point that the killer is OP. Thank you.
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This is just going to continue until the Devs re-code the game
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All regions are important. North America is just as important there is a lack of survivors if anything.
I've watched all the killer streamers and they win all the time. Survivor streamers are usually losing.
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No one wins all the time. In fact you should take a piece of paper and a pencil and take notes. I prefer an excel sheet. Please do not hesitate to post me real numbers, not biased opinions. And, to avoid misunderstandings, I play 90% of my matches as survivor, so I am survivor main. But I want balanced fair matches, even for killers. And if I die I see the point that I have to die so that killers sometimes can win.
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Sure, I'll give you some responses...
When they have 55 different gen regression perks
Massive over-exaggeration, ignored.
When killers can still hit you on the other side of a window you vaulted 2 seconds ago and were already far from?
Skill issue and/or fix your connection.
When the perk excuse you are using, Dead Hard, still doesn't work much of the time, just like old Dead Hard
Massive skill issue, even more so due to the fact that you say old dead hard didn't work.
When the last 3 gens can still be next to each other, and a sweaty killer will make a match like that last ages more than it should?
Skill issue, learn not to 3 gen. It's super simple.
Buddy, I haven't seen (reassurance) once, not even on full teams of Rebeccas.
I swear you are trolling.
Remember that you are just a single person, not the media, there is no need for you to say fake stuff or make it bigger than it really is, as you have no need to get views. Now, to your other "points":
OK, you are trolling. And if you are not, then just admit that you are bad at the game and want survivor buffs because the game is too hard for you. Your position would actually make more sense that way.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Let's please keep the discussion in here civil and respectful of others, and their opinions. Thank you.
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I mean, you've exemplarily provided why basekit unbreakable won't break the game - unlike giving the power-role that is dominating in the win-rates base-kit perks (On top of Unique powers).
1 in 20, but I'd probably say 1 in 30 or 40.
If you don't slug, this change won't affect you.
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power-role that is dominating in the win-rates base-kit perks (On top of Unique powers).
Citation needed for "power-role". Survivors are by definition of a power role (with exception of Nurse) as they have all the tools to win the game. They just need skill and Discord installation.
1 in 20, but I'd probably say 1 in 30 or 40.
Have you read my post correctly? Survivors literally don't need this base kit perk for the purpose it was created, therefore, it's not needed at all. Yet they are still getting it for some magical reason and will most of the time use it for different reasons than intended by the developers.
If you don't slug, this change won't affect you.
Not an argument. Sometimes you are forced to slug, and sometimes it's a voluntary strategy. This affects both non-sluggers (but forced to slug), and sluggers.
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Every single killer slugs whether they want to or not, it is unavoidable in certain situations. How do you deal with a survivor who is under a pallet? Slugging. How do you deal with a survivor who is down in the open while someone is ready to flashlight save? Slugging. How do you deal with someone with boil over in a dead zone or high up? Slugging. Ever certain killers like Plague, Myers, Twins or Oni are designed to slug.
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The Reassurance thing is true, I play solo q everyday and since Rebecca came out I saw less than 5 Reassurance's in play. At least from where I'm from it's not popular.
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Why everyone assuming it's 22 seconds as if all survivors will run UB ?
I still stand that 45 seconds is way too long. I don't care if they delete UB but don't make basekit recovery 45 seconds before i can walk. As a soloQ that is a pain and i don't like UB (Now or later) so you can't be forced to run a perk just to make a basekit even "slighly bareable".
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Try playing as the twins. Or maybe stop a flashlight save with any killer or waiting for DS to cooldown with any killer.
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So a bunch of very weak and minor buffs, you cannot believe that 2.5% regression is not a good thing as for years kicking a gen was literally useless, how many people do you know that run tier 1 brutal strength
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Show me where I said it wasn't a good thing?
Also, show me where I advocated against increasing base regression speed to make it actually do something?
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My point is minor buffs to killers base kit is not equivellant to base kit BT and UB (I do think the base kit BT is healthier for the game but the point still stands)
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Killers are the power-role, the devs have stated this, and that is why killers are dominating in winrates over survivors. It's as simple as that. Lol. 'survivors have all the tools' so does the killer, goofy.
They are getting UB basekit because they are introducing the Last Standing feature? They LITERALLY stated that in the developer update... It's a measure to prevent killers from trying to prematurely end game by just slugging survivors. Last Standing was added to prevent the game from being held hostage - before you ask for that too.
You are never forced to do anything in game. pls stop. The game doesn't force you to do anything.
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