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Does anyone else miss Emblem based matchmaking?
More and more I'm finding I'm missing the emblem based matchmaking, I don't know if it's just me though. I really dislike whatever this new way is, I felt the old way was more rewarding even if you did die/didn't get a 4k. Now it feels like no one is contributing anymore to the match in solo queue mainly.
I feel SBMM is one of the worst things to happen to DBD, maybe it's just me though.
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I miss it in the sense that games where overall easier in the system.
But as a whole I'm glad it's gone. If only matchmaking was better and you had any idea of what your mmr is.
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Yeah, I just think on survivor side at least it doesn't measure skill at all
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the best match making so far was BP based. as far as I remember.
but I think the MMR system might work at least somehow. the problem is the "soft cap" thing they explained which means that at (if I remember correctly and the info is trustful) MMR 1600 basically means that you can get matched with everyone at 1600+
And this is the same issue that emblem match making had, where basically 80% of the playerbase was consistently reaching red ranks and therefore 80% of the playerbase were matched vs each other
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It needed a lot of tweaking but I think a properly tuned emblem system would be better than the mmr system we have today.
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Emblem system needed a lot of work, but it was a much better fit for how the game was/is/will be balanced. MMR tries to force too much emphasis on individual agency in a game that regularly denies it. The issue of being able to "fail upward" was present in both systems, to MMR's credit at least.
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absolutely I could actually play killers I don't play but with mmr it seems like every killer just gives me good players
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pretty much everyone here. i used to reach iri 1 and be proud of myself and just screw around with builds, now its just.....lame
very very lame
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I feel the main thing is that emblems showed you played the game often, and that's all I asked for so you knew what was up with the current patch. Now all I see is people who can't even loop for more than 5 seconds.
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they basically removed the main objective of the game, and made it stale, can't try new builds, can't have fun, can't do anything
can't have ######### in the realm
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I feel like it's the exact same minus being able to go "rainbow match" at the end of the game. MMR is so loose/priority is on finding matches quickly vs considering skill.(think streamers waiting hours to find matches with equally skilled players when MMR was first being introduced vs now)
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Not at all. Emblems are terrible for matchmaking, MMR is actually a lot better. There was even some good evidence of this when they were doing MMR testing earlier this year and they switched on Grades as the matchmaking criteria and matches were noticeably worse than when they used MMR.
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Every day I play DbD I miss it.
Back when you matched with your own rank color was the best time for DbD's matchmaking. You knew your rank and you had some idea of the quality of the teammates you were getting.
Now as a SoloQ your teammates are essentially random.
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that was the day everyone complained about the most, as well haha
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The MMR system does not work well and nothing will convince me otherwise. When I SWF it's with extremely casual friends. We probably lose 8/10 games because the game matches us with killers who have 4k hours, full meta builds, etc. Yet we never manage to fall far enough to get paired with more casual killers. When I was new I got a lot of variation in the skill of my opponents. This was under the old emblem system. Now it's nothing but sweat even though we don't win enough to justify it. I have no issues winning most of my games as killer but survivor is just completely unbalanced for me.
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Dear god yes, so many muppet survivors with the current matchmaking.
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No.
Skill was thrown to the wind in the emblem system too, it was not hard at all to reach rank 1.
If you played enough you got it.
Could and should MMR be better? Yes absolutely.
We kind of have the same problem with MMR, but to a lesser degree. They need to increase the soft cap to better filter out players.
But it's better than before in my experience.
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A killer can just facecamp and gain MMR since the person on the hook will die.
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I miss the numbered ranks yes. Brown was easy, so was yellow, green and purple got tougher and I never played enough to reach red. I don't even look at the grades, completely pointless as they reset.
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That test wasn't close to actually comparing emblem matchmaking to mmr. They did the test right before or right after a grade reset so almost everyone was the same grade. It was a test of no matchmaking not the emblem system.
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It says something that people are starting to remember that terrible terrible match making system fondly. The new system works, kinda. The previous iteration of it before the multiple tests they ran worked way better. The likely problem is it makes the killer queues horrible.
Better for a higher volume of matches then matches that are actually fun I guess.
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While it wasn't perfect, emblem matchmaking was certainly better on the survivor side at least. my killer games aren't any different really. B/c current MMR only tracks escapes as "skill", i end up with worse & worse team mates in solo q b/c i play altruistically. So i escape somewhere around 1-2 times per 10 matches. And no, solo q does not need a buff. Bhvr needs to update the MMR so kills/escapes aren't considered the only win condition. Tunnel/camp gameplay wasn't nearly as bad before the MMR system was introduced.
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All four survivors' MMRs should be affected equally after a match. Win as a team, lose as a team.
If WE held the killer to a 1k, that's great! WE should all get credit for mostly winning.
The idea that the 1k loses MMR while the other 3 gain is real dumb
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Remember when they made getting emblems harder and everyone complained?
Yeah, people SUCK at this game. It doesn't matter if its emblem or MMR matchmaking, there's so many people that are horrendous that you're gonna have crap matches no matter what
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We have to go off mathematics to have something that makes sense. SBMM is a way more fair system for both sides, and as well compliments most of the roster as a whole rather than a few select killers. The emblem system i will give its credit was great for potato survivors giving the killer a set rules while survivors could pretty much do whatever they wanted. At this point in dbds history at high level play was an absolute joke leading to the killer to have rely on HUGE mistakes, an example was a missed ds skill check. Which my god was super easy to hit. All in all in an asymmetrical game where both sides have advantages, the 2k 2 escapes system makes the most sense.
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Yes because it was way more chill. Now almost every match is a sweatfest.
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hell no.
Let me see if I can explain why.
Chill for who exactly?
RBMM made things easier on veterans, as they'd be paired against (on average) easier opponents than they are now.
It was a bloody nightmare for newbies, especially factoring in a week every month where the game basically had no matchmaking whatsoever, due to the full reset.
Define 'everyone'.
You really didn't, though.
The first week after the reset? You could be paired with literally anyone.
Even after that - I was in purple ranks within my first month of playing, and facing off against 1000+ hours people with less than 100 on my side.
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With color-based Rank matchmaking at least once you got into purple and especially red ranks you weren't getting teamed with once a week casual gamers and complete newb-taters. Also we got to know our rank back then so at least we had a much better idea what we could expect from matchmaking.
Generally speaking once I got to red ranks I consistently got paired with good teammates. Sure there was the odd one out who got carried there by their friends but it was still pretty consistent.
When I play SoloQ now I have no idea what my rank is and the matchmaking seems to be essentially random and team compositions are generally horrible. There is nothing consistent about MMR except it being consistently bad. It seems like what was the first week after reset back then is all the damn time now.
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Hah. Yes, you were.
I'm not sure how much you played back then, but every month, on the 13th, Ranks would reset and thus would MMR.
For the rest of that week, you could be paired with/against anything from a 30 hour newbie to a 1000 hour monster.
Killer was also borked because it was super easy to rank up, meaning that you'd either have to 'manage' your rank (see: deranking - which was rampant, so frequent that even prominent community members were doing it and completely broke the system) or you'd quickly start facing opponents way beyond your skill level.
This was my experience as a new killer in 2020. It was brutal.
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no it was #########
btw i found funny that some many people said "the teammates in this mm sucks" well man a few months ago they had an strict mm that gave balanced games but the people in this forum cryed about sweaty games and the devs had to change it
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It doesn't really measure skill at all on either side. It measures your willingness to play cheap and boring on killer and to see how fast you can make people stop playing forever.
It promotes sweating hard and making everything not fun. They need to either split the queues into competitive and casual or go back to giving rewards based on total number of hooks instead of kills.
Same with survivor, the more you personally accomplish in a match, the more you should be rewarded.
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Out of what we got up to now
I don't know what to say
Old MM had it's pros and cons
New MM has pros and cons
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I hate SBMM in the fact that it dictates how you need to play, especially with soloQ.
For example, it does not give much value to holding a killer for a couple of gens chase, trading hooks, pallet/FL saves, etc.
In many cases it rewards passive play and hatch camps, Especially when the game is going towards the killer side. The "SBMM" way, you just need to hide and wait for your team to die, which is plain boring.
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I wouldn't want ranks to determine matchmaking but the MM itself should be based around emblems. It should be obviously more nuanced than pipping and de-pipping. I don't want matches to suddenly become hard or easy based on the last few games.
As it stands, current MM doesn't identify skill at all. Kills and escapes don't mean you played well in that match. You loop the killer for 5 gens but then get caught, hooked and abandoned? The other survivors who escaped without you played better than you according to the current MM.
Killer would also benifit from emblem based MM. The game does detect if you camp or tunnel, and emblems do change based on that. Tunneled two people out? No Iri devout (requires 9 hook actions). Camped and didn't chase survivors when given the chance? Evader emblem is silver or less (penalty for camping + low score in general).
Make the penalties harsher and emblems would identify skill much better.
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To clarify, the community manager has said this isn't the case. 80% of players are not above the soft cap and the number is definitely lower than 25% although he never confirmed the exact number. I've seen some streamers repeat this but it's not true. It is true that the soft cap makes it so anyone above that limit gets matched with each other, but the number of players above that soft cap is not a high percentage.
I like MMR a lot better as, when I was a newer player, emblems kind of encouraged me not to play more because playing more meant my rank went up even if I kept losing just because I did generators/saved teammates and then I just waited for rank reset. I'd try and make sure I was rank 9 instead of rank 8 so I could get reset to 13.
I will say I do have one concerning bit that they seem to be trying to get kill rates of 60%, but I feel like MMR will always try to gravitate towards a 50% so it seems to me like to accomplish the 60% they want, they'll have to keep buffing killers each time the MMR adjusts to the new changes. As killer, that means more difficult matches because they want you to have 60% but the MMR is trying to get you to 50% and for survivor it's powercreeping killers which makes it harder on lower skill players. If you're getting the 60% kill rate, that would mean you're consistently increasing in MMR or staying even as killer even if maybe you should be losing so the system knows you're above your current level.
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I played a lot back then. Much more than I do now. That was back before the devs seemed to phone everything in. I was a perennial rank 4 solo survivor.
I never said it was perfect. It certainly had it's problems.
But I still miss that old system. It measured more than just kills and escapes.
It boils my blood thinking about how much better DbD would be know if they kept the Emblem and Rank system and continued tweaking and improving it and instead spent the time they spent making the MMR system on something else. With DC penalties alone the rank manipulation would be greatly reduced.
By 2020 it was a shadow of itself anyway after they took away the color-based matchmaking back in early 2019. At that point it was pretty much already being decommissioned because they were working on MMR already. When they downgraded it from losing 10 ranks to just going down 1 color it was a massive downgrade.
Their approach to matchmaking is flawed. They care about queue times first and matching based on skill second with some stupid kill rate in mind they want to achieve. Fun is factored out.
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I think that this is a common feeling amongst veteran players, but I think a lot of that comes down to being paired against weaker killers moreso than strong allies.
Could the rank system have been reworked into something decent? Maybe. But that's a fait accompli at this point.
From my experience, MMR has produced better games than what came before - win or lose, I'd say that maybe 3/5 of my games feel mostly 'fair', as opposed to 1/5.
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Honestly back when I was playing with color-based matchmaking once I got to red ranks I thought 4/5 or more of games were fair. I was usually the weakest link on the team and I had a hard time, but I still enjoyed it more than the randomness I experience now.
The Rank system was decent. They just needed to not destroy it. That was in 2018. They gutted it after that by removing the matching based on rank colors and players used to lose about 10 ranks every reset which they just changed to bumping them down a color. I still think the Emblem system would be incredible and much better than MMR now if they had believed in it and stuck with it.
You reference you remember the Rank and Emblem system in 2020. Did you get to experience it in its heyday in 2018? Because in 2020 it was a pale shadow of itself. It's like they purposefully destroyed it so people would think MMR was an improvement.
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