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Blast Mine should only blind the killer and not stun them
I suggest this change because Blast Mine basically has no counter play (asides from Lightborn). The reason it has no counter play is that killers do not know which gen is Blast Mined, so there is no way for the killer to avoid it unless they choose to never kick any gens, which is poor counter play design since it completely removes a core mechanic from the game. Even if a killer knew a gen was Blast Mined, some times the killer is forced to kick it. For example, if a gen is at 90%, the killer cannot wait 60 seconds for the Blast Mine to expire since it will most likely be completed before then. Therefore, the killer must kick it regardless.
Blast Mine is just obnoxious to go against because it stuns the killer for 4.9 seconds (wasted kick time + stun time) and there is no counter play to it. My suggestion is to change it from a stun to a blind. This adds counter play to Blast Mine since it allows the killer to prepare for Blast Mine by memorizing where to go beforehand so they can still move. On the other hand, if the killer doesn't prepare for it, they will still be greatly immobilized by the blind and basically won't get anywhere. I think this change makes it fair for both sides and fixes the issue of Blast Mine being completely obnoxious.
Comments
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blast mine already got nerfed with their change. I said its strong perk but there are better perks for survivor, so there is no reason to use it. Removing the stun defeats the purpose of the perk. the perk is intended to punish the killer for kicking gens which wastes killer's time.
Its obnoxious perk to go against if 4 people are using it. you get spammed by stuns if your using gen-kicking perks as killer.
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The killer still gets blinded from the Blast Mine, which wastes their time. As I said, if the killer doesn't memorize where to go, they basically have to stand still until it expires. It's like getting Flashlight blinded at a pallet. The killer usually doesn't know where to go until the blind is over unless the survivor is injured.
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you said problem yourself:
This adds counter play to Blast Mine since it allows the killer to prepare for Blast Mine by memorizing where to go beforehand so they can still move
You can memorize where survivor is going so blind does nothing. It kills the perk. The perk is designed to waste your time as killer and punish you for kicking generators and the stun integral part of doing that.
I agree that the perk obnoxious to play against as killer. I have played against that. Its not fun to play against but its not overpowered. Mostly just annoying. punishes you for using gen-kicking perks.
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"you said problem yourself:"
You still don't know which gen will be Blast Mined, so you have to memorize where to go for every single gen you kick. Also, memorizing where to go doesn't completely counter blind as you still don't see where you are going and can be incorrect about the path you are taking. You could just be walking right into a wall. You don't know. This would be most problematic in areas with many walls or doors.
"You can memorize where survivor is going so blind does nothing. "
A survivor blinds you with a flash light then starts moving. You cannot memorize something that has not occurred yet. You may predict where they are going if there is only 1 path but most of the time, the survivor can take several paths. If blind was truly useless, no survivor would ever use a flash light and every survivor using one at a pallet would get hit.
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Blast Mine is already a trash perk for the most part. It could be used to counter Pop Goes The Weasel and finish a gen in the killer's face while they're stunned, but most of the time it's just a small waste of the killer's time, prevents a little gen regression and a "Haha, I stunned the killer" moment.
For me I know all the tiles and maps pretty well already. If I got blinded while kicking a gen I would still be able to move in the direction I want to go while blinded without getting stuck very often. I don't even think it would be much more than a minor inconvenience even for players with less experience.
Without the stun the killer archive challenges no one would run this perk so if you remove the stun it won't get ran at all.
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delete blast mine/repressed alliance/wiretap too op
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I know it might be a weak perk but getting stunned for 4.9 seconds with absolutely no counter play is completely obnoxious. I do think that it should be reworked in someway to allow for counter play.
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Are we really discussing about nerfing the meme perk Blast Mine?
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Out of all the perks do I really read "nerf blastmine"? Is this post a joke? The perk is total trash already. The only usage it has is stun to get your archive. Maybe it provides some jiggle to people that love to stun killer. But really. The perk belongs to about as useful as reactive healing. Meaning from practival point of view - NOBODY would ever use it. It's really just a meme. No real benefit xD
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Not once in this thread did I said Blast Mine should be nerfed because it was too strong. I said it should be changed because it is completely obnoxious and has no counter play. The perk can be buffed in some other way to offset the nerf, e.g. longer duration. To the people saying that it is only used for the stun killer challenge and won't be used after the change, that's false. It can still be used for the blind killer challenge.
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It needs a buff, not a nerf accompanied by a buff. The effect by itself is weak. It's a good thing it doesn't have direct counterplay, it's weak to begin with.
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I do agree, but even if that isn't the change to it, the kick should still count and it should get damaged with any other perks that it would proc.
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well maybe now you understand what is strong about the perk. you have assume every generator could have blast mine, that's part of the reason why i dislike re nemesis update as killer because I have now worry about every generator that i kick having blast mine. survivor generally hold-w in general direction when they're running away from generators, the blind is not slowing the killer down.
removing the stun kills the purpose of the perk. You would give another powerful to compensate the loss of the stun.
Examples:
-Kicking a generator that activates blast mine will increase the max generator progression by 10%(t3).
-Killer is suffers from incapacitated and hindered status(15%) for 15 seconds. Incapaciated prevents killer from activating the ability.
personally, i rather suffer the stun over auto-complete gens for the survivor or have highly detrimental status effects that hamper my ability to kill.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on1 -
Not every perks needs to have counter play. Especially ones that are basically part of a fun, memey build like blast mine.
No way out has no counter play and it's a very strong perk that wastes a lot of survivor time and you don't see survivors crying about giving it counter play so stop moaning. Blast mine is basically a meme perk, especially after the unnecessary nerf. If you're actually scared to get stunned so much don't kick gens or go play some other game.
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I have no idea why killers are afraid of stuns. Like it doesn't really take much time. You can be actually happy, because survivor did not use the perk slot to have e.g. built to last with strong medkit. Or reinsurance to waste a lot of your time camping. Or OTR to prevent you from tunneling. Hell if it's such a memer, it's high possibility he took the perk instead of deadhard which will probably rob you of more time then 1 measly stun outside of chase.
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I understand why people don't think Blast Mine is annoying as I do now. It's because most killers don't care about kicking gens much, so they aren't affected much by it, but if you are playing a killer that cares a lot about defending and kicking gens, it's extremely annoying. If one person runs Blast Mine, you can get Blast Mined 4-5 times in a single match. Getting hit by it once is fine but getting hit that many times is just obnoxious.
Removing the stun does not defeat the purpose of the perk. Say Blast Mine blinded the killer for 1 hour, it would be the best perk in the game. It's just a matter of adjusting the blind duration to balance it.
Not every perk needs counter play but I think it does in this instance. Getting hit by Blast Mine multiple times with no counter play is just obnoxious.
No Way Out has counter play. If survivors loop the killer better, the perk doesn't get as many stacks, so it's far less effective. Also, survivors can still do other things during the block timer like hide and heal or continue looping the killer. Blast Mine is not like this at all. You can't do anything to avoid Blast Mine and if you get hit by it, you literally can't do anything since you are stunned and blinded.
It's not the stun on its own that's annoying. It's getting stunned with no counter play that's annoying. For example, Head On is fine since I can at least bait the survivors out to hit them and if I spot them entering the locker, I can down them. I would rather survivors run strong perks than perks to annoy the killer with no counter play.
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Oh but it has same "counterplay" as No way out. Just don't kick gens that are worked on by person with blast mine.
And yes. The perk is meaned to be annoying. Because that's all it is. An annoying perk that makes almost 0 difference otherwise. It's sole purpose is to be annoying and that's it.
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I wholeheartedly disagree. I never suffer that much from it when playing as killer. It IS annoying, but it's not busted or anything. From the survivor standpoint, removing the stun would send this perk to the dumpster, it would be next to worthless. Blindness doesn't last that long. This perk just recently suffered from a nerf (a totally uncalled one imo, since the perk was never really strong to begin with), and should not get nerfed further, it would destroy it. Not to mention that Eruption, Jolt and Pain Res (which are super common right now) cause the gens to regress without kicking them.... So good luck getting your Blast Mine value :/
Also, doing gens is BORING. Having Blast Mine, Wiretap, Flashbang and/or Hyperfocus engages the survivor in a fun way while doing gens, because there is an interesting payoff. Hyperfocus actively engages the survivor, it's a bit thrilling. It's awesome that we have these perks, 'cause they make doing gens at least somewhat appealing. Solo queue teammates actually wanting to do gens... can you believe that? We should rejoice. :')
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nope the perk is fine it's just a fun memey perk why would a meme perk require a counter to make it worse than it already is?? it's on a timer and they have to do half a gen for it I'd understand if it was a popular perk and could be activated more often but that's not the case.
i'd take it over hyperfocus/stakeout/prove any day.
in a gen kicking meta survivors are allowed to have some perks to counter it (repressed alliance/blast mine) even tho these perk are not good in doing so.
plus blast mine already got an undeserved nerf and the devs got quite the backlash for nerfing a memey perk just like when they nerfed mettle, so that wouldn't be a very smart move.
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Tell me you want to make blast mine useless without telling me you want to make blast mine useless
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Blast mine is pretty weak as is. At least the blind + stun makes it amusing to see.
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Blast mine has counterplay, just pressure gens better and don't let survivors get any progress :p
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How is not kicking gens the same counter play as No Way Out?
Unless you're playing Nurse or Blight, that's fairly unlikely.
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no, you can do it as any killer. Just hook survivors better
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dont kick the gen or equip ruin
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If you are able to evade killer so, that killer gets 0 hooks in a game that is made specifically so, that killer will eventually catch the survivor. Then you are able to kick specifically those gens, that are not being worked on by person with blast mine.
And I would argue killer's chance to avoid it is better
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If you don't like blast mine there is plenty of ways to damage gens without kicking:
-Pain Resonance
-Hex: Ruin
-Jolt
-Merciless Storm (if skill check is failed)
There is also a tell you can see a little smoke coming off the gen if the mine is on it I'm sure too.
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You need counterplay for a power that has a finite amount of uses due to gen charge time, and times out on its own?
Seriously?
No.
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I bet survivors wouldn't like it if they gave killer the Blast Mine perk. New perk: whenever a killer kicks a generator, that generator is booby trapped for 60 seconds. Whenever a survivor repairs a trapped generator, they are blinded and stunned for 5 seconds. Imagine the survivor salt when I run Blast Mine on killer and get free downs because they literally can't move.
As mentioned in my original post, not kicking gens is terrible counter play design since it removes a core mechanic from the game. Ruin can get cleansed early into the game then you have no counter play for Blast Mine again.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Forcing the killer to run perks to counter a specific thing has always been poor design. Whenever this was the case, it was patched out in the past, e.g. Iron Grasp was necessary to counter Sabo when Sabo permanently removed hooks then Sabo got nerfed. Enduring and Brutal Strength used to be necessary on every killer in the beta before they made them base kit.
Even when running these perks, it still removes the core mechanic of kicking gens. I think being able to remove any core mechanic from the game with a perk is poor design.
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It's called eruption and it disables all survivors working on all kicked gens for 25 seconds AND it also regresses those gens just by downing any survivor. So killer's version of the perk is actually useful in comparison to blast mine (even if it has harder, but more probable trigger condition). It's so useful, that it's considered one of the meta perks.
But if they made same kind of perk against survivor (so 5s stun+blind and no warning to killer - same as blast mine), I am pretty sure the usage would be abysmally low (less then 1%). But sure. I am all for killer's blast mine. But with your numbers and no buff to them.
As for your quote to me. What can't you understand? Perk "No way out" has same counterplay as blast mine. Just avoid being hooked is the same as just avoid kicking gen that got trapped by specific person. None of those 2 are really possible, because game is designed in a way that these things are not possible. What is so hard to understand about it?
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You can still move during Eruption and go unhook the survivor that just got downed. There is also a difference with stunning survivor(s) and the killer. When you stun the killer, you are stunning the entire team. When you stun 1 survivor, the other survivors can still do things. SWFs can avoid Eruption by telling each other when they are about to go down. You can also potentially determine which gen is Erupted based on whether it is regressing and go work on another gen. It isn't the same.
"As for your quote to me. What can't you understand? Perk "No way out" has same counter play as blast mine. Just avoid being hooked is the same as just avoid kicking gen that got trapped by specific person. None of those 2 are really possible, because game is designed in a way that these things are not possible. What is so hard to understand about it?"
The effectiveness of No Way Out is reduced when less survivors are hooked. Being able to hook a survivor is likely but being able to hook all 4 isn't a guarantee. It has counter play in the form of reducing its effectiveness. The other counter play is when the perk activates. It's not like when No Way Out activates, survivors are completely helpless. They can still evade the killer by hiding and looping. Blast Mine is different. When activates, there is nothing you can do but wait out the stun.
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You wait out those 3 seconds of stun (5 only if you count kicking). I am sure this has practically 0 result on a match - not counting killer's tilt factor and him suddenly playing worse (which in this case is intended and the only real benefit of the perk).
Also from time's perspective. And same as no way out getting 4 stacks might not work out - there are a lot of killers that don't kick gens, killers that kick gens way too late for blast mine or killers that kick different gen.
You can get way more value then 5 theoretical seconds. Be it from any other perk - like stakeout, proof, resilience (this gives out also other effects), botany knowledge, counterforce, etc or even info perk that will in the end also save you more time (bond or empathy), or each and every single one of exhaustion perks, or items like medkit and toolbox.
Once again. The perk is already trash. It does not help. It's funny meme perk. ANY. KIND. OF. NERF. IS. TOTALLY. UNDESEARVED. The perk is already subpar to vast majority of survivor perks.
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