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Is it time to stop killers from seeing what they are up against?
Hi all,
With more and more power given to killers (as it should be) I've been thinking are we at a point we don't need to show what the survivors have, I think it's time killers have to put up with the same mystery survivors have to deal with for the sake of the health of both sides.
Perks like Lightborn, Franklins, and sloppy shouldn't be brought just because you can see items. Yes survivors can last second switch but it's hardly fun for either side, and results in dodging. I feel it's a relic from a simpler time and I feel having mystery for both sides would be healthier for the game as a whole.
Imagine if the survivors could see what killer you were playing in the lobby, wouldn't be nice to have perks constantly brought to counter you would it? lol
Comments
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It's a 1v4 game.
It's fine that the killer can see the tools survivors are bringing into trial and swap out perks to deal with it.
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I mean, I've legit never taken lightborn off of doc, and I never look at the preparation screen anyways
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Seeing items and what survivors people choose is fine. Everything else should go in my opinion.
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This is what I mean, people who want to bring it can bring it anyways at this point, it's a comfort pick <3
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I mean why not share perks at this point while we are at it, y'know? I don't think that arguement always holds weight.
edit: sorry didn't mean to double post I was just playing while typing so missed the first message oopsie
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honestly? killer should see more of what the survivors have
not perks, but a killer cant tell the difference between an addonless brown toolbox being used for archives, and a 52 charge commodius
or a brown medkit with no addons, and a purple medkit with +28 charges. or a green medkit that heals 30% faster
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I think survivors need to start being able to see other survivor perks. Not sure about the killers going in blind though.
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So prevent the one in the 1v4 to prepare accordingly for the upcoming match?
Sounds like a terrible idea.
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Seeing the killer means all 4 survivors could make a counter build. Which is insane, and would completely cripple the killer. Being able to counter a survivor's items is not nearly as big an advantage. Like it's rare to see more than 1 survivor with a torch anyway.
Counter playing medkits and toolkits is also kind of difficult, survs will still get value from them even if you run perks to counter them, i.e. sloppy butcher or regression perks. I did make a thread a while ago suggesting lightborn should allow survs who bring torches into that game to be protected from losing them since it automatically makes them worse than useless. But nobody agreed lol. Would be nice i feel though, nothing worse than bring a purple torch with odd bulb and sapphire lense to lose at lesst the add ons and possibly the torch too just because the killer took one perk.
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I feel readability is important yes, I agree that items should look different especially for when you are in a chase and can tell what they are possibly planning. I'm not sure I feel it's good for lobbies though as it encourages dodging and cherry picking.
Lobbies also need to show connections of all players better instead of in game. I'm conflicted as I feel lobbies should share more info or none at all.
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It is fine that Killers see Items and which Survivor is picked. Profiles, Names and Prestige should be removed tho.
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Names and prestiege should be an option if I ever end up grinding a high level prestiege on someone I wanna show off lmao.
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Items have always been considered a "bonus" part of the loadout. Hence why they can be earned mid match in chests, dropped, given to other survivors, etc. They even used to get used up and consumed if used 100% in the past (though you did get to keep addons that didnt consume the item if you escaped with it and it still had charges left.) They're not a core part of the loadout, which is why its fair for the killer to see them and adjust theirs accordingly, especially for niche perks for that purpose like franklins.
The inverse is that survivors get to chat in the lobby (if they choose to) and coordinate loadouts and/or comment on challenges or anything else without the killer being able to see the chat (admittedly, don't know if/how this functions on console personally.) If killers were able to see the rarity and addons of items that would be one thing, but since killers can't switch which killer they're using in lobby anymore I don't personally think its a disproportionate advantage either way. Especially since at least survivors still have the last second swap you mentioned which killers don't/have limited ability to react to.
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The killer can only see that you have a toolbox or a flashlight. Not what addons is attached to such toolbox or the rarity. It's some very abstract information the killer gets about the tools survivors are bringing into trial that the killer can use to determine what they might want to bring into that trial.
Given the killer is playing a 1v4 this kind of minor information is not a big deal. For example killer see 3 survivors with flashlights and they swap out a perk for lightborn. There's 2 main outcomes that could happen:
- It was a 4-man SWF that tries to go for flashlight saves and gets bodied by the killer swapping to lightborn because the killer was able to turn all the survivors swarming to the pick up into more downs.
- It was 3 solos trying to do the blind the killer challenge and only try to blind at pallets. Sure it might cause those survivors to go down earlier in the first chase, but it won't have a huge impact on the match as a whole and the killer has a fairly useless perk put on over a more useful perk they could have brought.
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Imagine survs seeing they are against a doctor and insta-switching to calm spirit. lol
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That actually happened for a while. People were using hacks to identify the killer in lobbies and suddenly every doctor went against 4 calm spirits, every plague went against 4 no mither sabo build squads, etc. Was pretty rough to be on the receiving end of but also pretty obvious why it was happening.
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So IMO... :(not that it really matters):
Removing the Players name and Prestige sound reasonable (that removes some lobby dodging and Cheaters can't force much.. I don't think) but Items seems like stretch...
Having Survivors see each others perks also sounds like a good idea... I don't see that much issue with that (other then the number of leavers will probably go up)
But sitting there waiting for everyone to ready up seems a bit redundant at this point... For me personally I get everything ready before I start looking for a match so I'm not getting Bloodwebs done or looking to finish my build in the pre-match lobby
But perks... there isn't much a Killer can do but to on the look out for Flashlights or just leave on Lightborn as a "just in case"
I've only had 2-3 occasions where players do the last second swap... and either A) I ignore it or B) already had my build ready for what they bring
Plus Having 3 loadouts ready to go kinda make it easier to either A) Counter a potential Item swap or B) react to what I see
Wait do Survivors have the 3 loadouts as well.... I might have missed it?
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I think you opinion matters and I agree with what you are saying, survivors do have the 3 loadouts yeah! <3 I'd love to get into games faster, but I guess seeing what randoms have brought to the match would make it much easier to prep for solo queue games and is possibly the change that is most needed. When the cheater situation is sorted I think hiding names and prestige is the right thing to do, it's info no one needs.
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Don't you dare remove prestige it let's me know nit to chase that p30 nea first because she's probably got skillz.
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OK thanks.... I knew I missed it thanks again
I mean waiting for a minute after getting into the per-match lobby is more irritating then waiting for the Survivors to leave
Hiding the player names should have been a thing since the start of the game but here we are
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Ah yes, so the killer can be more inclined to tunnel or BM someone trying to complete a challenge. No thanks.
tombstone myers is showing enough that players will purposely screw eachother over if they know someone is going for a challenge/achievement.
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Killers should see SWF. The ability to know who's a swf can massively change how you play the match, killer may play more chill verse solos as they dont feel as threatened and if a killer sees swf he may use different perks/addons and understand the survivors can be making callouts so they can adjust if they're playing trapper, stealth killer etc.
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Prestige mean nothing, iv seen many P60+ go down mega fast I wouldn't really worry too much on prestige (although I'd still like it hidden from all players, I hate I get lobby dodged because I'm playing a character who isnt a high prestige even though I'd probably play better than them and have everyone else really high as well as my killers lol)
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Personally my biggest gripe is that Killers could take perks that can fully negate an item and perhaps even certain perks. If I have a daily archive to blind a killer 8 times in 1 single game, and therefor brought a flashlight, flashbang and blastmine, the killer can just slap on lightborn and make it impossible for me to do my challenge.
I do think its important to show that a survivor has equipped an item, but not which item.
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With a on-going cheater pandemic? Nah I am good
Just playing against survivors with anon mode is a gamble if u face a cheater or not
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Hey, no worries! I'll just keep six-second switching. It's just a stupid waste of time as OP says though, lol.
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It's bad enough that BHVR took away the killer's ability to switch to a different killer in the lobby now you want to make it even worse?
Seriously?
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Is not perfect but it's definitely a heads up more often then not. And what makes it better that prestige 0 character could be a god survivor leveling a new character.
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I think survivors should be able to see the killer they are facing in the lobby too
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Here's the thing... medkits and tool boxes are incredibly powerful when brought in mass. Imagine if you couldn't see those items and you go into that game where if you abandon a chase someone uses a green medkit with enough charges for 3 heals, or even a stacked ranger medkit to eliminate all your pressure. Then you have toolboxes shaving off a lot of time if it's somewhat decent addons. Yeah doesn't sound very fun and hey if they brought franklins or lightborn that's 1 perk that wasn't call of brine or overcharge.
But yeah back on the medkit point.. thats what literally was wrong with circle of healing. Can't leave chase cause they could just self heal in 16/18/21 seconds.
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Nah.
Both roles are different. Killers only have 4 perks, whilst survivors have 16 to work with, and can thus build to at least soft-counter most possibilities.
You'd have to substantially nerf medkits, for starters as 4x medkits sort of necessitates Franklin's on some killers.
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It is part of the balance that killer gets to be prepared for the match. It also helps with killers that require more setup or surprise like stealth
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Someone brought Lightborn after seeing your lobby, eh?
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What I think its ridiculous is that survivors still cant see which perks each other are bringing.
In a game that suggests you should "coordinate".
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There is no pregame chat if you're on console though....
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Yeah, I wasn't sure about that. The ability to quickswap is still there though.
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Lightborn ironically doesn't bother me, it's one less perk I need to deal with and why I'll always enter a lobby showing a flashlight. It's franklin's I think is the annoying one if anything haha
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Nah. It's not like I can switch to plague when I see 4 medkits in the lobby.
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Then people who bring good items would be tunneled out. It is better to keep it vague.
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Waaah! My flashlight bully squad has to actually play the game because the killer picked Lightborn!
Boo hoo hoo! Our sabotage squad has to keep retrieving our toolboxes!
Those perks exist specifically to counter certain items. If those aren't being brought, then having them is essentially running a three perk game. And considering that survivors just keep getting perks added to base kit, that's simply not balanced at all.
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This is a good idea. 👍 it would help solo queue survivors. Promote teamwork even if they're not on Coms. Would definitely eliminate a lot of misery for solos.
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Honestly it's pointless as long as survivors can change loadout in that screen.
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All hail to our lord and saviour Lightborn 😎
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Yes brother, of course
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