Bamboozle needs to be basekit
Since we out here holding survivors hands every patch, how about making killer gameplay less frustrating? You have to mostly sacrifice a perk just so you don't watch survivors vault a window 3-4 times before moving on. That can be said for a lot of spots in the game, it's not as black and white as "don't chase them then" It's a win win scenario either way for survivors because it's either you're wasting time chasing or wasting time chasing them off a gen for them to move spots and do the same crap. Since the killer works with the entity, moving through the vault should block it by default i feel.
If you have bamboozle, it just makes things so much more fun and fair, and some killers literally NEED IT. Or it's going to be bad game for you, every time unless you have new players as survivors
Bamboozle feels like the borrowed time for a lot of killers build
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A mini Bamboozle wouldn't hurt in my opinion, allows survivors to make smarter decisions and makes chases a bit easier.
A 10% increase to vaulting speed and maybe a 5-7 window block would be fine enough.
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Yeah that would be great. Like if the entity blocks the window after it being vaulted say what, 3 times? Seems reasonable.
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I'd say through testing that is, first idea is to push the chase to move on, not just run in circles. That's the biggest goal here, i hate that there's just pallets used as a getaway and not other things by now. I wish there was other things to stop the killer for a moment, or more places to hide other than lockers
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wow that would be an insane balance, hope they do that.
Imagine if survivors were able to vault a window infinitely without getting blocked, how busted that would be compared.
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The point being is 3 being the limit is way too much forgiveness, the chase should move on
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I know right, Crazy.
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This is how we get another shift w meta. What you want is to be able to take every resource in the game before the first few gens pop. That's silly. Like it or not, survivors need to be able to escape.
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Yes. Matches where you're playing Bamboozle/Superior Anatomy Wesker and you still get destroyed by windows, something's gotta change. Not even just on maps like Haddonfield or Father Campbell's Chapel or Mother's Dwelling, but also just in general when there's 2 or more windows too close to each other.
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That's a map design issue. Having Bamboozle as basekit then what for survivors ? Just Hold ######### W meta and press space on every pallet ? Or hide in dark corner hoping the killer has bad headset/no custom brightness ?
Game is all about looping, mindgames and perks. The better you get at mindgames, the less of an issue.
Sure some buildings/maps are busted but that can be addressed separately and i believe they already doing it slowly.
Survivors were able to vault infinitely back in the days with "Literal infinites" with just one window, then they gave bloodlust and mini bamboozle to help which it did.
We can't just keep balancing around every new player with 10 hours into the game, killer/survivor alike.
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Bamboozle is already a Perk which screams "I cannot run tiles". The main purpose of Bamboozle was to be a bandaid for really strong Windows. The problem is that Bamboozle can be used on fair Loops as well.
Making it basekit would make many tiles very easy to play for Killers and some borderline useless. (Like, a T/L-Wall would be not much stronger than a Z-Wall, and T/L-Walls are very fair Tiles... But you need to use some braincells to mindgame them, with Bamboozle, you just vault the Window and thats it).
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No not really imo and play mostly killer. Running tiles is just a skill killers need to learn and bamboozle makes decent tiles to ######### tiles with 0 skill or effort. Like any type jungle gym becomes obsolete with its window blocked and just a strong pallet instead of an actual loop. The only perks I would argue should be basekit atm are deerstalker and shattered hope(-the aura reading).
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Shame on you for running Bamboozle to make running those tiles easier.
Why not use Bamboozle for its intended purpose of blocking windows to force the survivor to change tiles/make the tiles easier to run?!
I hope you level up your game, good sir!
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No. There’s already a superfluous amount of anti loop and ranged killers. Combine that with bloodlust and mini bamboozle and all chases will end in less than 15 seconds.
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I use blindness add-ons and perks to counter windows of opportunity. It makes it harder for them to chain things and avoid dead zones.
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While I get your point, I think its kinda amusing you mentioned 15 seconds, since thats bloodlust time.
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I'm with you. At this rate I see us all running multiple builds at once soon. The game can be balanced without making perks base kit.
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Didn't realize, how about 20?
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Oh I didn't mean it like that, more as in if you haven't gotten a hit or broken a pallet in 15 seconds, the game assumes you must need a hand. Its an amusing coincidence, but it also kinda shows how easy it is to lose track of what's too little or too much time for each interaction.
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I disagree with the bamboozle base kit. It is necessary to use one of the PERK frames to seal the window.
That said, I understand the frustration of having the same window used 3 or more times because it is considered not a chase by the system when it is in fact a chase. Similarly, as if the background music is still playing as if the chase is still in progress, even though the chase was terminated for the PWYF tokens. It's Murphy's Law, though.
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No thanks
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I think no need to have mini bambozle. Just count the windows vaulting of killer too as oppose to only survivor.
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no, that would be too strong. stop nerfing survivors more.
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As someone who runs bamboozle on all my builds, no that would OP.
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Its the objective of the survivor to escape. Its a tactic.
Eh and you have perks for that.
Faster Bloodlust and some killer abilities already help with that too.
Loops are good that way.
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Bamboozle really doesn't seem like one of the perks that acknowledges some big weakness killers have. If it weren't so useful I'd call it a meme perk. No this really isn't one of the perks I think needs to be basekit. The only thing I could imagine being close to this is if the killer's vault counts towards the survivors budget? Like if you're in a chase with a survivor and can, yourself, vault the window 3 times without ending chase it will be blocked (and if they vault it 2 times you doing it a 3rd blocks it and so on). Maybe that would be fine. But I don't think it would be needed really.
Out of perks people calling for being basekit that I'd like? Diet corrupt tbh. 2 farthest away gens for 30 maybe 45 seconds at the beginning of the match. Deactivates prematurely if you put a survivor in the injured state/reach blood lust 3 during that time.
Other people have suggested diet BBQ, only shows the furthest away survivor for 3 seconds (if they are not within' 50m of the hook). And if that survivor is in a locker or has distortion it does NOT show the next closest. (That specifically is not a suggestion I've seen, just how I think it should work.)
I'd also advocate for basekit insidious (kind of). Like if you don't move at the start of the match you're undetectable until you do. Once you move it's GONE forever but idk, could be useful for people like me who get up to use the restroom while queued because the wait is so long but the match already started when you got back.
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Respectfully, what are you talking about? Killer has never been as easy as it is right now.
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it wouldn't be op, but it'd be extremely boring. Would just promote hold w gameplay
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"bamboozle needs to be base kit 🤓" bro just mindgame, its not that hard, why not make noed base kit as well?
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No thanks. Corrupt Intervention should be base kit instead.
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If we were to give killers anything basekit, this seems the most reasonable.
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We can do one or the other. Bamboozle base first, or fixing maps first. But something has to change. I'm worried what giving killers Bamboozle base would do to people's mindsets if it had to be removed down the line when windows were fixed, but the devs take away stuff from killers all the time anyway. We'd get over it.
Do not refer to the removal of infinites or the introduction of entity blocker as "survivor nerfs", because that's what I'm hearing every time they get brought up. They were necessary qol changes for the game to continue living. Who wants to play killer when survivors can loop a jungle gym or shack window, not just 3 times, but 5+ times and still not get a hit on them? "That's the killer's fault." Is it really? Are we not even gonna admit that there are certain tiles that take no brain power or innovation from the survivors once they know how to run it? It's the killer at that point who is holding W, because they can't even get a hit. Bloodlust changes that a little bit, but it's not a guarantee.
I don't think there's been anything that I've said that indicates balancing around brand new killers. I usually leave that up to the survivors, who have asked for and received BT, Guardian, and Unbreakable for free.
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I think this would be better suited in the form of breakable windows on troublesome main buildings. After a player entity-blocks a window tied to a main building, it breaks. They could also have X vaults be tied to the window and it crumbles as vaults are used (with a visual for each stage). This way the busted windows are a map resource just as Pallets are throughout the rest of the map. Also LT walls and normal jungle gym windows are unaffected. To have the window still have value it might need the Killer to vault through it once fully damaged, or break Y seconds after the last vault with a sound cue on vault so both sides are aware it will crumble in a short time.
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Thankyou, someone had to say it! It's very true, a killer can mind game about 95% of windows and get a hit. First fault if they win that mind game, rarely should it got to 3. Do killers realise they shouldn't get 4ks every game to be balanced?
The real problem with this game is killers have a choice to play like a scum bag and get easy kills on a silver platter once they hook one survivor... but that's another topic.
I think they didn't need the last balance patch (nerf survivor). As it seems they balance off statistics, statistics as a whole isn't what you should balance off. Like, did they take out the games where the killers just mucks around/farms? Sure doesn't feel like it. I play both survivor and killer and find killer to be so easy in comparison. Killer can make a mistake and cost them 5 - 10 seconds, survivor can make a mistake and it can cost them a hook. Then they complain if someone deadhards 🤣. Seems whacked to me
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You're giving me Vietnam flashbacks man.
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oh yeah, killers nowadays don't realize how spoiled they are compared to the old days of infinites, no entity block, insta blind FL, pallet vacuum, double window shack and list goes on.
Poor trapper & Wraith had to deal with this for some time.
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no it shouldn't. HOWEVER, maps should be DEFENITELY looked at because as you said they are too much safe right now
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I think it's finally time to nerf to the ground camp and tunnel. These 2 cheap things catapult mediocre killers against very strong survivors that can loop much better then said killer. The end result is, that killers think survivors as a whole are busted, skillchecks on overcharge and DS are a joke that everyone can hit all the time and basekit bamboozle should be a thing.
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You could years ago when Mori's didn't require a hook. So like it or not some people want a challenge in this game. It's ez mode
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