How to give non-mobility killers mobility?
I'm more so asking a question because I think it should be brought up. There's certain killers that struggle immensely because they lack any kind of mobility.
The Cannibal
The Trickster
The Clown
The Shape
There's probably a couple I missed. Then again some of these killers also have fairly weak powers which is more than half the issue.
But, I just want to know how they could be given a little bit of mobility to help with map pressure, yet not make them completely overbearing or accidentally make the chase unfair.
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Play With You Food can help. However, in all honesty the examples you've listed don't need more map mobility. They have plenty of lethality in 1v1 situations and allowing them the ability to get around the map faster would just break them.
If Cannibal was able to get around the map faster, he'd be like a more reliable Hillbilly. They already have plenty of overlapping with their powers, they don't need more.
Trickster, maybe. I could see Main Event being changed into something like mobility based upgrade, but still he can down survivors pretty fast if your competent enough. (Btw I'm definitely not.)
Clown already has his yellow bottles for a bit of extra speed. I know it doesn't seem like much, and it's not, but his primary focus is hindering survivors with his pink bottles.
I'll go on record in saying that Shape needs a complete rework. His age is showing and while all the other Year 1 killers have received some tweaks or changes he hasn't. Does he need more mobility? I don't know, because he needs an update and it's hard to judge him without it.
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Clown can now fart really hard and launch himself
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Didn't all killers get a Bloodlust buff just when the meta shakeup happened?
What if they get mobility and play with their stronger + strongest add-ons? How would that be balanced?
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you can't... the only way to compensate this issue is to drastically improve their powers in order to be considered a real threat (like the deathslinger pre nerf... no map pressure at all, but his power coupled with his low TR was more than enough in order to get fast downs, so more pressure for survivors, making him one of the best killers in the game regarding the 1vs1 aspect and overall a decent killer despite the lack of map pressure)
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For Trickster, he has an add-on that buffs his movement speed while throwing knives so he doesn't slow down as much. But I do agree that his base movement speed needs to be buffed, not by much but just enough that he has a little more gen pressure. Especially on the larger maps, where he has the least amount of gen pressure due to how far spread everything is.
I also think his power "Main Event" needs a bit of a rework as it is pretty underwhelming, though effective when used correctly.
Just FYI, I love Trickster. He's really fun to play, but his weaknesses can be a little annoying.
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Honestly? just make really good mobility perks that only makes sense on low mobility killers.
For example, after you vault a window or break a pallet gain 25% walking speed for 5 seconds. 45 second cd.
Nurse, blight etc will obviously not use it. But on other killers it would make them all basically at least B tier
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How about we shrink maps first and go from there to adjust killer and survivor balance instead of a band aid fix for non mobile killers? Shrink everything to at least wreckers yard - my dream would be personally have everything the size of coal tower.
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Give Trickster 2% more movment speed and remove 60% of his knives, also knives hitting closer than 5 meters away only do half the damage.
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I saw a great idea in a forum post which suggested that the trapper can use an ability that lets him put away his weapon to go faster. The idea of this was to allow him to quickly rush to a survivor who stepped in a trap before they could escape. I however think this idea could actually work for all low mobility killers where they put away their weapon to get a move speed boost. It should have a coming out cooldown so it cant be used in loops at all, but it would really help low tier killers especially with getting between gens or on bigger maps.
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100% agree with this as well. Why does mother's dwelling have to be so big it takes the typical killer 30-40 seconds to go from one side to the other?
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It would certainly help with killers who have low gen pressure and would stop three gens popping in less than ninety seconds. :-/
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Giving extra mobility to a killer (the shape) that can kill you even without one hook, is this a joke?
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This is a really good idea, but then ofc it'd have to be balanced around the killer being able to pull out their weapon for an M1 or the use of their power in the case of someone like Trickster or Huntress. Unless they can like "bodyslam" into the survivor to knock them into an "injured" state or something? could be hilarious.
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Blight and Nurse would dominate even more than they already do as they’re cruel and unrestrained on small maps. And the survival rate would continue to drop, driving more survivors from the game. It’s hard to remember but the kill rate for every single killer is above 50%. Additionally, survivors actually need a decent shot at escape, and for them that is considerably map-dependent.
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Hence, me saying "shrink maps first and go from there to adjust killer and survivor balance".
Although I don't agree with you that survival rate will continue to drop - coal tower, for instance, is a perfectly balanced map considering rng and loop logic the game has in addition to it's size. Survivors, as long as you just don't hold w, have equal shot at escaping as a killer does at a 3-4k.
Not to mention.. A nurse or blight, or spirit, that would destroy the a group of survivors on mothers dwelling today would still destroy the same team on coal tower or wreckers yard or any of the smaller maps now.
Maps getting smaller is a benefit to every side imo, and will allow the game to be balanced better in general.
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Then you give him a movement penalty when he uses the add on... it's not rocket science
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I love the concept of non-euclidean maps, but for some reason I don't trust them to work in this game.
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I honestly think maps just need a size reduction and need to be around the same size. Killers that have a strong 1v1 but not much mobility are kind of balanced because they cant get around the map as fast, imagine if Trickster or Huntress could get around the map as well as say Dredge or Billy, they would be absolutely insane
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the party bottles addon should work on this too
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Just reduce map size. Literally most maps in the game could use a 25% reduction in size, and some of them would still be too big.
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Some killers shouldnt have mobility. If clown had mobility, he would just be a better freddy. If bubba had mobility, he would be a better billy (not like he already isnt)
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They need map pressure more than mobility. Killers like clown tell the entire map that they are currently chasing someone, and anyone not in their TR has the green light to rush the hell out of gens. He would need something that offsets that net negative to map pressure more than a teleport or anything like that. Same with pretty much any killer with global sounds like that, with slinger his lower TR helped when he had that, but currently demo is the only one that really has anything to offset the global safety notifications.
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thats what dead lock and pain res are for
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And thats why people complain when every killer runs 4 gen slowdown perks. Throwing perks at issues as bandaid fixes is not how to foster gameplay variety.
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This is how it works right now, and I do not see any mistakes with it, I'm against giving him extra speed, moreover he may use Play With Your Food for additional 15% movement speed, so - NO
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And swf easily tell their friend who is chased it just makes soloQ and swf bit closer.
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And what do killers get in exchange for all of that free information that large amounts of the game are not balanced for (clarification edit: ...If you are balancing for SWF?) I hope you plan to rework all the stealth and trap based killers before these changes.
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You know how situational that perk is? Not to mention you only get value out of it at tier 3
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I'd love Ghostface to have the ability to mark 3 lockers. After entering a locker, he could look at and teleport to a locker that he had marked. Once doing a teleport, the locker he teleported TO loses its mark, and the locker he teleported FROM gains a mark. Ends up ole Danny Johnson had an accomplice the whole time.
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But lockers are Dredge's whole thing to begin with.
Maybe if he could just hide in lockers for surprises that would be more in character, but survivors in that case should be able to open lockers without entering them and if they find him in they smash the locker door on him to escape. Otherwise he lurks in a locker near a gen and can probably surprise grab or scare people.
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The bloodlust buff wasn't strong, and really only kicks in when you're already not doing well, and doesn't last long. And you're probably only going to be in it while looping.
BL =/= map mobility.
The issue isn't as much a killer issue as it is piss poor map design.
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The reality is that maps need to lose all RNG. Variants are fine, but every map detail needs to be hand crafted.
From there we can either inflate/shrink maps or rebalance pallets/windows
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So just massive Trickster nerfs. Also "closer than 5 meters away" so punishing trickster for accurate hits?
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I love how people say that Trickster is a more boring or annoying version of Huntress. Like that's the point of his kit? Trickster is more like an SMG whereas Huntress is a sniper. You don't see people wanting the removal of SMGs in an FPS, so why should Trickster be nerfed because he plays like one? Not to mention, in a touch of realism, knives are a hell of a lot lighter than hatchets which makes them easier to throw in rapid succession.
Also IIRC, Trickster originally had to land eight knives to get a down, where six was the old "injured" status. So yeah, reducing the number of blades he can carry (which is forty-four without add-ons) would just nerf him and as you said, punish players for missing knives because of various reasons on both killer and survivor side of the gameplay loop.
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that's why I always loved Trickster more than huntress. feels like a machine gun, and much more fun to me
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Exactly, he's just really fun to play. I've always preferred "faster" gameplay loops, in comparison to "slower" loops. Yet, I love stealth games. But yeah, in FPS games SMGs, FA Pistols and ARs are my favourite weapons to use. They're just more fun to me, so killers like Trickster and Legion are extremely fun for me to play, because they match my preferred gameplay style.
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Yeah maybe a scourge hook that spawns map edge portals, but then again agitation is what I use for mobility to begin with
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i think a reward-based mobility system would work, if that were to EVER come to the game. but i really want killers to be sorted under different classifications. killers within a mobility category would not get a basekit mobility mechanic, killers that are not within that category would.
i.e. a Trickster hooking a Survivor spawns a Rift next to the hook, and interacting with the rift will transport you to another rift (1 of 4?) on the map, which could be the one with the most survivors nearby, or one of your choosing so you're not also given free information.
the game just isn't balanced around that kind of system and it'd probably be overkill on certain killers. again, if killers were categorized based on the strengths of their powers, this system could act differently for each. again, for example, the system i proposed may only spawn a rift after 2-3 hooks have been achieved for a killer who's got a slowdown/situational teleport mechanic basekit, like pinhead. whereas other killers, like myers, could have one given to them at each and every hook.
it wouldn't be easy to implement overall
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it would be interesting if the maps were self-adjusting according to the killer, if it is a low mobility killer like you mentioned, the maps would be smaller, so the map control becomes easier for them
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It's simple. Make the game slow enough to where killers with no map mobility don't lose easily.
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True, but the topic was about mobility for non-mobile killers. XD
I'd love for GF to be able to hide in lockers. If someone tries to open a locker with him in it, he lashes out and does a basic attack.
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I really think they should have a basekit mechanic where killers increase speed for a short duration after hooking a survivor, similar to Devour Hope, just something to encourage going for hooks and pressuring after a hook.
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Blood Lust should do the opposite of what it does now, IMO. Give killers the same 5/10/15% bonus speed after 10/18/25 seconds out of chase to let the reach places faster and spend more time in action.
The only issue to figure out is how to avoid killers chasing while looking backward to avoid starting a chase like the old days of Legion.
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I've been playing so much against Myerses who had purple or red tombstone or endless tier 3 with In memory of J. Myers or Judith's diary, like 3 / 4 trials
Superior Anatomy + Bamboozle + Play With Your Food is a chase combo for Myers, it's not "situational perk"
His purple & red addons should be reworked in case of additional mobility, at least kill survivors after one hook stage not instantly, reduce movement speed as it now by 9% for red or NOT AT ALL for purple - this means he has either +6% or +15% speed with kill ability
Also, combining addons like red tombstone and infinite tier 3 along with Play With Your Food + Superior Anatomy + Bamboozle is another thing to think about his mobility change
Also think about the fact that in this game the balance staggers from side to side depending on which map you're currently playing and random
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Corrupt should be basekit, pre nerf corrupt or post nerf corrupt basekit.
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Things like 'map portals' and even 'reverse bloodlust' are too extreme, plus how do you decide which killers get and and which don't when it comes to those in the middling range like Spirit, Hag, Freddy, Sadako, etc.
A much better way would be an add-on pass for the struggling killers, and give them a couple of add ons that help with movement. Such as Trapper getting an add on that increases his movement speed by 4% outside of chase while not carrying bear traps.
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You don't. That's part of their design. If Pyramid Head could cage someone and make it across the map in 5 seconds then he's now one of the strongest killers in the game. What we really need is maps that are reasonably sized and created in a way that's clear and easy to navigate. Giving killers who don't have mobility ways to instantly traverse the map trivializes any killer with that power built in and makes balance a complete mess.
There's a trade-off with every power. Normally it's some form of strong anti-loop but with no way to quickly cross the map. Or the other way around. That's why the killers who have both, Blight, Spirit and Nurse are the best in the game.
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True, there are many things you could do, the body slam thing would be hilarious a bit like a wesker dash. It would just have to be adjusted according to each killer (blight for example would not even need this so it should not be added for him).
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Essentially wraith without the stealth?
Can wraith move faster then?
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Clown and Leatherface, not any kind of mobility? Clown, Leatherface and Myers, weak powers? Did you start playing the game yesterday and/or you're just coping hard about your constant losses? Anyway, non-mobility killers is fine, it's the awful design of so many maps in this game that is the real issue.
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