What do you think about tunneling ?

tunneling is a necessary evil sadly... you can easily avoid to use that strategy in low mmr, but once the skill bar will raise up, it will become a common thimg to do if you don't want to loose badly (it's boring but effective... just like holding m1 on generators)

Absolutely true.... Its a tool in the toolbox for the right situations.

an example I mentioned in another post, if a surviver is flashlighting me, I'm going to remove that player as quickly as i can to eliminate the threat of losing hooks and making my play less efficient.

Ditto, I basically said this verbatim in the first part of this message:

Tunneling either has to simply continue to exist, and maybe hopefully BHVR can gently "explain" via public channels and maybe tips and stuff in game that it is necessitated to get these survivors to shut it. OR there needs to be major changes to the game so winning without tunneling at high MMR is actually possible, and then greater anti tunneling can be added in. The latter I think would be better for everyone's "net fun" but the former really wouldn't bother me. I find camping a bigger issue frankly. Specifically facecamping midmatch, not endgame camping or generous wide proxy camping. You at least get to actually press buttons and play the game if you get tunneled out.

Sometimes I tunnel when I'm clearly losing and I really want to kill one. Happens. I try to limit it tho.

But most of the time tunneling is because I always end up finding the same survivor or running into them. I mean, I'm not trying to, but what am I supposed to do? Let them go? No.

At best, if it's been too soon since last hook I'll down them and leave them bleeding while checking for other people.

There's also a lot of survivors that want to play hero with the extended basekit BT, protecting the unhooker, and, sure, I get it. But if you want to take their hit, I'll make sure to give you the full run.

Tunneling before a gen even popped is a miserable experience for surv regardless if you are the one tunneled or someone else.

Really doubt anyone enjoys it if the killer is capable of doing it.

I don’t think about what the reasoning is why Killer is doing it.

I do think about how unbalanced it is the moment. Which is why I (along with others) are persistent in giving feedback to the devs.

Exactly, it's not really tunnelling if you keep running into the same survivor over and over again. It's just bad luck by that point, it's a part of the game. It's unfortunate, and many killers do try to avoid it, but sadly tunnelling just happens.

Tunnelling is fine

How is punishing an unsafe unhook better than punishing flashlight? If you have a flashlight and have used it, you are a threat to the killer. Why would the killer want that to continue?

Do you let the mosquito on your arm continue to suck your blood after you notice it? I bet you swat it which prevents it from ever landing on you again. What if you miss but see it as it floats in front of you? Do you take another shot at it? Stop Tunneling mosquitos!

Tunneling ruins the entire match for not just the targeted player, but for the rest of the players aswell.

Whoever gets tunneled doesn't get to play the game, and the same applies to the killer; All he or she gets to have is a survivor downed within one hit, unless there are other perks' effects present, which is rarely the case. The rest pf the players do get no interaction whatsoever, but M1 simulator and watching gears of generators moving up and down from being repaired.. That's so much fun..

You do wanna play the game, have some chases there and there, from time to time watch your character scream in pain (from survivor's POV) and either get sacrificed for the team or escape; Nobody really cares.. As long as the chases were somewhat challenging and there were funny moments from time to time, nor the survivor nor the killer will care about the amount of hooks.

Those who tunnel do it, because of two reasons; Reason one being, it's oppressive and very effective at dealing with really good survivors, as it reduces the speed the generators can be progressed at and removes one more prey required to be caught. The second reason being, they're ruinin the match. Yup, and they do enjoy every second of it.. Sadists, who do ruin the game to literally every single player.

The moment you start tunneling, you're selfish or playing in a heavily biased way. There's no AI, each survivor character is controlled by a player, and if you don't care.. Well, then you're being unsportsmanlike, ain't that right?

I do despise of tunneling, but I will definitely tunnel cheaters and griefers; Those do deserve it the most.. Or the most stubborn ones; For example, I do return after failing to find a survivor, only to find the recently unhooked survivor right on another generator, not even taking the time to heal and not bothering to run away from me.. Yeah, I'll take it and hook the same survivor again, as I don't feel like giving them a free outta jail card just because they've happened to be hooked recently.

I do only tunnel because the challenges do force me to - Gain X iridescent Emblems, for example.. And I'm never having fun when I'm playing that way.. Never..

If a player feels that they have to tunnel to win, then they are probably playing out of their MMR skill level. But winning through tunneling will only lock them into higher and higher MMR sweatfests, where they will once again think they have to tunnel to win. If people could just chill out a bit and not be afraid to lose or draw a match the game would be in a much better place.

Some i agree with and some I don't.

I don't think tunneling ruins the match for anyone. It makes people mad that they weren't good enough to escape the killer and they were the first one out due to bad luck and lack of skill.

As soon as the match is over, you're free to start a new one and play more. Just don't carry your frustration from the first match to the next one.

The person tunneled does get to play the game. You could say they get to play the game the most during their time being chased. If they have a lower skill level, the chases are quick and that's not the killers fault.

The reasons for tunneling you mentioned are accurate, but the number of killers doing it to make people angry is few and far between. Just because you feel the killer is doing it for this reason doesn't make it true. Its impossible to differentiate between them without an outright admission. Either way its a valid strategy that the killer has in order to make the best and most efficient play under the circumstances.

PvP play in general is selfish. Two players on opposite sides should always play with winning in mind. if you are not being selfish, you're throwing the match as a killer. Survivors need to be selfish with the killer(and they always are) but selfless with their teammates at times. Efficiency and intentional moves are key to winning any PvP game. Why would the killer be intentionally SELFLESS to the opposing team when it is the least efficient move and causes the killer to lose?

I would say that you are being unsportsmanlike when the killer and survivors farm BP in a game. The match is essentially not being played in a competitive nature. No sport. I would say its unsportsmanlike to talk trash in chat or teabag at the exit gates/pallets. Being a sore winner is not better than being a sore loser. This includes killers rubbing in a win during end game chat as well.

You're making reasons as to why you tunnel....but it doesn't matter. Any reason is valid as it is the killers decision to do so and the survivors don't get to make the killers plan. Thats part of the fun for me as a survivor is no knowing who the killer is at first, then not knowing how they play the game and being unable to predict the killers moves.

But which decision should be more worth it for killer. That should be going after unhooker. So Ds should be basekit with 3,5s stun.

The best decision depends on a lot of circumstances.

-How many gens are done

-how skilled are the survivors(what youv'e witnessed so far)

-****Do any survivors have items that are hampering your ability to efficiently kill all 4 survivors?*

-Is the unhookee or unhooked the closest and most efficient target to go after?

-What map are you on?

-did any survivor bring items that stretch the distance between hooks? Gotta make hooks you get count more now!

the list goes on and on. All together they give the killer the ability to make a decision on who they want to go after.

I don't think, you can really apply the statement or argument about skill, if the survivor has no time to run and make it to a safe spot before the killer hits the same survivor again, refusing to hit the rescuer instead. This isn't about luck or skill anymore, but about your gameplay. You can't possibly claim that it takes skill to hit a survivor once if there's no obstacle in your way. I'd have accepted it, if you'd have presented in a better way - It takes skill to predict the survivor's movement and end chases quicker when you can't see or hear the survivor.. But this? This isn't about skill whatsoever.

The way I see it, most players do carry the frustration over, which is .. I don't know, I don't understand it myself. If I get frustrated, I do play the match to its end and then take a break until I feel better or play something else.

The tunneled person gets to play only like.. ~33% of the game, probably even less, as ~50% of the game is playing as a killer, then there're interaction between repairing generators and timing your skill checks, as well as cleansing and blessing the totems.. Healing and unhooking the survivors.. So, getting chased is only like ~15% of the game. That's like being forced to stay iddle or something.. And, no, I wouldn't say that they get to play the game the most, especially if the killer literally camps the hook, refuses to create longer distance than ~10 meters from the hook, and then runs after the unhooked survivor right-away and refusing to hit the healthy survivor, who's attempting to body block the killer and saving the unhooked survivor. This is absolutely the killer's fault for choosing the way the killer plays; You've mentioned that the killer gets to choose how they play, and if that's the case, then how come their gameplay isn't „their fault“, as in based on their decisions? That's one huge contradiciton, unless you've meant to present yourself in a different way and haven't.

There're are no other reasons beside turning the match into your favor or to ruin the match to the tunneled player. What I don't understand is that you haven't mentioned any other reason, yet, you've disagreed with me and claimed that there are other reasons? If so, please, do mention them in your next response.

Mmm, yes, pretty much. That's just the way PvP works. I'm not gonna argue here.

That was quite of an exaggeration of mine, I can admit that.. But it is somewhat unsportsmanlike, dependable on the situation and reason for tunneling. If you do tunnel because ruining the matches does satisfy you, then it's clearly unsportsmanlike, just like it is unsportsmanlike to tunnel because the survivor is playing with character X instead of character Y; Such gameplay is marked as a bannable offense, I might add, but it's almost impossible to tell the reasonings as to why the killer targets the specific survivor; Sure, the reasons do eliminate each other in different case scenarios, but you'll always have to pick one or multiple possibilities, and in case of multiple possibilities, you'd never know which ones' taking the priority. For example, tunneling at five generators while having the majority of generators affected by white aura due to Surveillance's effect is unreasonable and done only to ruin the match to the player or to get the challenge done. You do tunnel, because the requirement is to win or perform better in the match, and your odds of performing better are greatly increasing with lower amount of survivors in the realm, afterall. But, it's absolutely reasonable to tunnel when three generators are done, and you've only hooked all survivors once.. That's absolutely understandable, and even if you tunnel that one survivor, it will very likely result in three or two escapes at max.

No, not every reason is valid, because different reasons do apply under different circumstances. Like I've mentioned in this response, tunneling while the survivors are struggling to get even one generator done is absolutely unreasonable. You're putting them under so much pressure that they can't even recover, yet, you're going to put them even under more pressure? That's just unreasonable and overdoing it when it's not even close to necessary.. That's just being the party breaker.

What even is there to think about tunnelling? It's one of the many reasons I stay away from survivor. Those who say it's fine don't know what it's like. If survivors bring BS items and "genrush", at least i GET to play the game.

It's funny how entitled survivor mains want everything on their side. Before they try to do something about tunneling again they are going to have to do something about hyperfocus, toolboxes and proves. Plus all the sweat perks like CoH, lithes etc. You say it's not fun being tunneled, but is it fun for the killer in anyway with survivors constant healing? Popping gens so fast the killer can barely do anything? That's not fun, it's just frustrating. So yeah, try to fix tunneling or punish those who do it. But along with that, fix the survivor mode that should have been fixed quite some time ago.

Tunneling is a strategy picked by the Killer that the Survivors can counter but both the strategy and counter strategy have disparate skill floors (I'm not discussing camping here, only tunneling).

The counters are taking hits for the tunneled person, if necessary taking a down, and waiting a bit before unhooking.

As an example, if I see someone getting tunneled, if possible I body block the Killer and will go to the lengths of blocking a doorway so the Killer has to target me.

I also don't unhook immediately. I get gen progress first so a Killer who is waiting to tunnel someone has to lose some precious time of us advancing our objective and them not advancing theirs.

Games where people do take hits and trade hook states have a better outcome than those where survivors let their team fend for themselves. If the Killer gets a survivor out before 3 gens are done you'll probably also die. It also doesn't matter if you haven't been hooked before or if you're on death hook if you're the last survivor left; the next hook kills you.

Helping your teammates survive until endgame helps you survive overall. There's problems, of course, with solo queue coordination but that's more reflective of how solo needs more information to reduce the delta between SWF and solo than the balance of tunneling overall.

Personally, I would still like to see the DS nerf reverted and possibly working on both hook states as well as incentives such as basekit BBQ and Chili for Killers or a quasi Dying Light that encourage spreading hooks around more since the skill floor for tunnelling is a lot lower than the skill floor to counter tunneling though. It would be better to have both an incentive and disincentive working together to make tunneling less appealing.