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What do you think about tunneling ?
Comments
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If it's SWF and the killer is camping the hook, it's only logical to want your friends to have fun, no? So, it's very predictable and effective strategy to camp and tunnel, but at the same time is going to ruin the match for the rest of the players. That's being selfish, a party breaker, and possibly even competitive although the game isn't competitive and will never be treated as one. Although we may make the decision to unhook, you do make the decision whether our friend can have a bit fun or if he or she gets it cut short; That's all onto you.
No, not really. Tunneling the survivor with the most hooks is always going to be worth it, but I'll give you a credit here, as that's going to depend on the area where tunneling will have to occur; It's not worth going to the part of the map with no generators to ensure one survivors' survival or sacrifice, if it gets to cost you all the remaining generators.
I don't believe, this is a matter of your physical health or age, but more of matter of your mental age; Meaning, even somebody who's at their fourties could possibly carry over the frustration like a children, and vice-versa. Therapy, all of the options do cost money.. Which isn't to mean to sound like arguing, but that most people will gladly keep their frustration if it means saving up energy that they could use while they're frustrated. Naturally, not everybody behaves immaturely.
Oh, I must've been so wrong! No, it's all onto the killer; Killer's decision, killer's fault. The survivors doesn't get to choose what's going to happen under this case scenario, it's all in the hands of the killer. If you're going to disagree, then I'll drop it. I've thought that being considerate of others' feelings and emotions even in PvP games was normal and to be expected, but I guess.. I was wrong and too naïve.
If flashlight is such an issue for you, why don't you use Franklin's Demise? Alright.. If eating a perk slot matters so much, then.. Good job on attempting to ruin the match for that player, although I'm not going to fully blame you; Half of it goes for the survivor for even bringing the flashlight to the match. There is never a reason to tunnel at five generators, unless at least three generators are being repaired in the meantime and about to pop.. Which does literally never happen, and you're only making excuses here. Fine, have it your way; Like I've mentioned, I'll drop it here.
I see, that's a competitive behavior. Nothing wrong with that, until you do decide to deliberately play in a way to ensure ruining the experiences of the other players. If you're in a huge advantage and you do tunnel at five generators... Shame on you, really.
No need to respond to this. I'm dropping it, so even if you were to respond, you wouldn't get any response from me.
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It's annoying. Tactically it is a sound choice for the killer, tunneling a player out early allows you to shift the balance in your favour and control the match more easily. If someone goes for an unhook and you can't land a hit on them. You have a choice between a one hit down and a two hit down. In any other situation with a wounded and an unwounded survivor, as killer you'll hit the weaker one for the quicker hook.
On the survivor side being tunneled is highly unpleasant and you can't really do much about it. Especially being hardcore tunneled where killer proxy camps hook and runs straight back after you to it on the sound notification. It's practically impossible to avoid that if they killer goes for it that hard.
As killer I generally avoid tunneling, unless a surv has been extremely toxic, or it's clearly a very good swf team that I'm struggling against and it's the only way to secure a kill. In a standard game I haul ass away from the hook as soon as the surv is on it.
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Once again, PvP games are inherently selfish in the context of playing against the opposing side. The killers job is not to worry about your fun. His job is to kill you in any way the game allows. Survivors are also selfish....they use flashlights, they body block, they take perks that make the killers job frustrating. Each side is supposed to be selfish for THEIR SIDE. Its not hard to understand. It is hard to think clearly when you're tilted though which is what this entire conversation is about. Survivors Tilting because they have reached their player skill cap and cant handle losing.
Tunneling the most hooked survivor is not always worth it. There are plenty of times tunneling can be detrimental to your match as a killer. In those times, Survivors want the killer to tunnel to keep the killer busy.
Yes, naïve is a good term for your sentiment on PvP games and being considerate of peoples feelings. I don't intend or want to hurt someones feelings, but im not going to throw my match because someone might be upset by losing. Thats the most ridiculous reason to not do your job as the killer.
I use other perks and choose not to use Franklins demise. Flashlights are an issue for me, but its an issue I can remedy in game. I dont need to create threads trying to ban survivors who use flashlights. Again, thats just silly. I get hit with a flashlight, lose the carried survivor; I say "SOB", chuckle, and go after that person until the flashlight is no longer an issue.
Ive been playing online PvP games since 1997. I have never had the intention to ruin someone's day by playing the game and doing my part within the game.
There is no Shame in tunneling. Just as there is no shame in survivors tunneling generators.
I hope you drop it. I hope you learn to deal with tunneling; as in dont get angry about it, and learn to punish the Killer in game for doing it. The better a survivor is at making decisions in game to counter the killers plan, the more fun the game becomes. The better a killer gets as countering Survivors plans, the more fun the game becomes.
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Strategies possible with just the base kit should have counters with just the base kit.
Needing to bring a perk to counter a playstyle (which barely even counter it to begin with) is not counterplay.
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What do I think about tunneling? When it's legitimately tunneling (killer focuses on one player to the exclusion of all others until they are dead), it really sucks.
But context matters; did the killer do this immediately at the start of the game? If so, yeah, that's pretty lame. Really, really lame (but not bannable, that's just absurd). This tactic is typically unmistakable.
Did the killer do this mid-late game when the match was slipping away from them? Then it's fine, and to be expected, honestly.
I never do the former, but will sometimes do that latter. I think tunneling should be a tactic of necessity, not protocol.
But like camping, a lot of people call it out when it's not actually happening. People who feel they were tunneled should ask themselves questions:
- After I was unhooked, did I get the hell away from the killer, or did I assume they wouldn't hit me again, and just kind of hung around in their face? If it's the latter, you weren't tunneled. After you get unhooked, gtfo.
- Did the killer hit or down anyone else after I was unhooked? If so, not tunneling. Really good killers often feel like they are constantly on you, even when spreading damage and downs. In those cases, no one is getting tunneled, the surv team is just getting wrecked.
- Did I deliberately use my BT/OTR endurance to bodyblock for the unhooker after I was unhooked? If so, you didn't get tunneled. (more often than not I will remove survs who do this).
- The ugly question no one wants to answer yes to: am I just the worst player on my team, and the one whose arse is constantly hanging out? If so, blame MMR that you died first.
Also, people who tunnel (or attempt to tunnel) often totally throw the game by chasing the same surv for like half the match. It's a tactic that can blow up in your face if you're not good.
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I get most of the argmunents against and for tunneling. And I totally understand if a killers tunnels with like only 2 gens left - needing the pressure to secure at least a 2 or 3k.
But the current situation in my games is as follows: 5 gens left - one surv gets hooked by a nurse, a blight or a pyramid head - gets unhooked and the killer will return in the blink of an eye and hook that surv again.
I even had a pyramid head, that downed me after being unhooked, surrounded me in trail of torment and dropped me again and again, so that I had to step in the trail - still 5 gens left, 1 surv already dead.
I just feel like tunneling got so much worse since the 90sec gens and basekit BT - I just don't understand why?
It just is so hard to have fun right now, because on top of the tunnelin, you'll get a gg ez at the end of the game from a player, that collects hours and -reps on his profile.
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Tunneling is why I wish Decisive Strike wasn't nerfed so hard, a lot of killer players will tunnel because they want to kill the survivor player faster but it makes survivors miserable or just give up when they just got off the hook only to be chased and hooked again before they can get away and heal up.
Basekit Borrowed Time and Off The Records do help but some killer players will just wait them out or keep chase until the survivor runs out of pallets. I think tunneling Killers should get a penalty for chasing a survivor that was just unhooked within 60 seconds or something.
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If they do that, then survivors shouldn't be able to work on a generator while injured.
Irrational penalties for survivor bad plays should be met with irrational penalties for survivors too.
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I feel like there's two types of "tunneling", one of them being worse(in my opinion) but both viewed equally as bad in the community. If a killer goes and three hooks only one person that's not necessary to win a match, however if a killer has multiple hooks and chases somone off a hook to get them out and put more pressure on survivors (if they have 2 or 1 gen(s) left or if the exit gates are powered) that is reasonable in my opinion. So I half agree half disagree with tunnelling being toxic (not to say that it can't be ofc it can)
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Every time I try to be nice to survivors, I end up regretting it immensely. So, tunneling is fine, do it if you need it. And sometimes it's really the best way. If you're good enough then you can gauge your skill against other people. The christmas elf dwight is trying to get your attention because they're good at running and looping. If you're in a match with someone you know is better than you, your best option is to target the weakest link, cut the support lines.
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That's more of a hindrance to your teammates and yourself then the Killer. Also if you're that good at looping then tunneling should be no problem whatsoever.
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Personally, I don't like tunneling, but if the gens are flying and the killer decides they need to tunnel someone to get a kill on the scoreboard, I don't really blame them. If the gens aren't flying and they do that, well, meh. Some people just want to play like that. It's boring and dumb, but it's an option.
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Its not considered toxic....even with 5 gens. Nothing about tunneling is toxic. Tunneling is a made up term survivors use to try to shame killers to take it easier on them.
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You can say its unfun, a crutch, unskillful and whatever else. But we are well past the collective delusional era when it was considered toxic.
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Not from the players I see posting.
There are killers that will say that sometimes just so they dont have to argue with the SJS (Social Justice Survivors) here on the forums.
The fact is its nothing more than whiny survivor mains who are mad that their lack of skill or planning causes them to die early in the match.
Ill stop tunneling when ALL Survivors do all gens to 33%, then all gens to 66%, then all gens to 100%.
You cant have it both ways. My objectives are not for a survivor to manage.
Edit: if you're not having fun playing survivor because the killers dont play the way YOU want, Go play a killer and do it the "correct:" way in your opinion.
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I think tunneling is defined as targeting one person at the detriment of losing the game or with no strategic plan in mind besides going after the one person until they are dead. Sometimes tunneling is the best option and it isnt personal though.
Same thing with camping. If you hook someone and a survivor is dancing out of your reach waiting to unhook them, then those circumstances make camping a strategy. Didn't explain it the best but I think you catch my main meaning.
Personally my matches haven't had alot of tunneling so I'm not too bothered.
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I actually do that and mange pretty well but I do hope you get tunnel every game
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So ban people if they finish the gens too fast too right?
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Not a fan of it but I understand why it happens because the game is set up in a way that it works in the killers favor to remove a survivor immediately. The devs would need to find a way to make it so tunneling hurts the killer more than helps for killers to aim for alternating hooks over getting a single survivor out as quickly as possible.
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I see killers tunnel a single survivor all or a large portion of a match then complain when the remaining survivors finish all gens. I’ve even seen killers run Save the Best for Last but tunnel their obsession before the end of the match (at 3-4 gens). Then complain about killers being weak. Can anyone explain this to me?
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Best counter for tunneling is the other 3 rush gens as quickly as possible. I have had teammates throwing the whole match just trying to help me when im tunneled. One match for example this ada came to take hit I didn't need and giving killer free down at pallet which I needed to use. But as she went down there so instead my survivor dropping the pallet I ended up trying to heal her which took my otr away and also pallet stun which I would get. (Console moment). So this ada just helped killer tunnel me out and didn't do gens... once I died there was only 1 gen left.
Well even worser tunneling experience was today when I looped killer very long after my first hook and my teammates did 4 gens and were almost done with the last gen 90-95% done but two of them run to take hits for me when the hook was right next to me while downed. Then somehow 2 went down at the gen and soon the 3rd one as well then and all got hooked to the basement...
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It's just the killer trying to play efficiently.
The same way survivors don't slow down their gens on purpose for the killers, the killer isn't required to slow down their objective for them.
Any survivor saying otherwise is a hypocrite.
I wish they would change core mechanics so killers could not tunnel and be efficient. But that's not the game we have right now. Turning the game into a 1v3 is one of, if not the best, decisions you can make.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
A lazy strategy for unskilled killers
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Please elaborate....or are you too lazy to write more?
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The survivor can also become really good at chases and out maneuver the killer...be skillful with looping.
The skill it requires on the Killers part is to chase and beat a good looper quickly. If it takes too long, the other survivors will knock out the gens and the game is over.
You're making the argument that survivors shouldn't have to use perks or be good at the game in order to win. Thats such a silly argument.
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Tunneling like you've described is the one thing I loathe running into as Survivor and one thing I actively try to avoid doing when I play killer. I'm not above hitting off-hook given the opportunity since it delays their re-entry into the game by however long it takes them to mend (and possibly for my ahead pop kill as Pig) but I won't go out of my way for it.
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I don't want any survivors to mend when I play killer, whether i'm tunneling or not. Just like survivors don't want me kicking and regressing their gens.
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You're still making the skill argument which goes both ways. If the killer can easily chase down a survivor while tunneling, then the survivor lacks the skills to escape or prolong the chase. How can the winner of the chase have LESS skill in the chase than the loser of the chase?
The survivors get pallets, flashbangs, flashlights, quicker vaults, can crouch in brush or hide behind objects, can cross paths with other survivors which throws off following tracks, ect.. The killer has to constantly cut off the survivors movements, try and force the survivor to vault through an unsafe opening, drop pallets at the wrong time, or slide across pallets at the wrong time, has to follow the right tracks, avoiding the flashlights and flashbangs. Then when the survivor is down, has to find a hook that can be used, avoid body blocks and flashlights/flashbombs again, make sure the hook they are using isnt being sabo....all this before getting a hook.
With a skilled survivor, the killer has to have just as much skill to get the kill.
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I for myself think that tunneling (aka ignoring everyone else until that person is dead; said survivor did no conspicuous action etc) at 5 or 4 gens often shows a lack of skill. If I need to tunnel during that time to get anything done during the match then I'm clearly not that good.
I am completely fine with tunneling if gens fly or if there is only 1 or 2 of them left (or even none left). And this should never be punished.
Going for the wrong person to tunnel fan lose you matches and going for the right one can win it.
But just instantly wanting to tunnel someone out is being a bad sport. Not to mention that no average - decent nurse should need to tunnel or camp at all. YOU ARE NURSE! The single OP killer in this game.
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And...?
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When u 2ppl a generator is it tunneling a generator?
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You say easier, I say more efficient. Also the chase doesnt depend on health states. the number of gens doesnt matter either. Tunneling a player at gen 5 is the same in skill as tunneling at gen 1.
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If I had an "and" to your post, I would have added it.
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If the killer gets a 4k, I think it's beyond rude and a sign of poor sportsmanship to tell them they're tunneling. If they crushed you and got a 4k, then scoreboard, dude. Tunneling is rarely a good strategy, so if they won, they were either not tunneling, or using it as a strategy (ex: if the killer is in a lot of situations where they have to choose between multiple survivors, they're obviously going to choose the one that they can get more value from, like the injured survivor or the obsession.)
Like I said, though, tunneling is rarely used if the killer won. If the killer did not do well and was tunneling way too much, than they're just being a dick and you could totally call them out for tunneling.
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Why should it be harder?
Are you saying gens should take twice as long after 33% and 4 times as long after 66%?
How are you not understanding the objectives of the game?
The argument that you are unhappy because you arent getting better and cant escape the killer isnt valid. Get better and youll find a lot more success.
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It sounds like you were on Rotten Fields. Tunneling is definitely not a healthy and fun strategy but it's logical. Some killers tunnel because they want to win and it's the best option you have. The only thing that can really go wrong is picking a survivor that can run you for a long time. Tunneling exists for survivors and for killers. Survivors don't stop on a gen when it's 33% done and go to another, do they? The only differences are the effectiveness and their impact on the other side's morale. Overall tunneling is an ugly thing but ultimately you can't really blame anyone for doing something logic.
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I think tunnel is a fair tacktic, that show result as it take hands from the other team. And it does not hurt the game, the other player can try the help the one being tunnel and even if the the being tunnel get kill early you can enter the loby and start a new game pretty fast. It is only a problem for people who surviver with friends, with's mean they are most likely using voicse chat, and that is somthing I think as cheating, when you look at how much info means in DBD, and the deb has not made voise or text chat in the trail a thing
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Reducing the survivors is the entire objective for the killer.
Saying those points I mentioned aren't valid....is very confusing since were talking about objectives....Survivors being killed as quickly as possible(Killers sole objective) and generators being completed as quickly as possible (survivors objective). If you slow down killing the survivors, you MUST slow down the survivors ability to repair generators. That's just fact.
Talking about Winning/Losing an argument on the forum means you have nothing constructive to add or don't have a response to what was said or asked. I don't care about the argument...I care about you beginning to understand the game which is clear you don't. You seem to be under the impression that arguing on the forum makes you a better player...this also is not the case.
Saying I am attacking your character while giving you advice is so immature. Stop playing the victim on the forum and go play the victim(survivor) in the game. I promise....if you put effort into the game, you will get better. Tunneling wont make you cry anymore once you understand how to beat it.
Your argument means nothing because it is entirely based on your feelings being hurt because you aren't skilled enough to complete the match.
It doesn't matter if you don't enjoy it. Its part of the game. Remove or put artificial invulnerability trash in place will make the game impossible to play. The killers wont play killers and you will have hour long que times.
I've been playing a lot of survivor lately and have NO issues...i repeat...ZERO issues when being tunneled. Sometimes I win the chase, sometimes I don't win the chase. Its part of the game...part of the fun.
Your feelings don't matter.
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Necessary evil.
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I did, you're saying Killers shouldn't be able to do their objectives by focusing on a single part of their objective at once. This is the most one sided opinion ever. If you slow down the killers objective, the survivors objective must be slowed down too.
Your reasoning is because you don't like like it. You say 80% of the game population doesn't like it....which i disagree with massively. I would say the low MMR people...bottom 25% don't like it because they don't know how to handle it yet.
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Obviously I'm worked up...haha
Good then don't continue it. I do hope you improve your in game skills and maybe you'll see what everyone has been telling you for a while now.
Enjoy
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Omfg...dude, you and people who think like you are exactly what's wrong with this community, and why it has such a notorious reputation for obnoxious toxicity. Seriously, you need to find some other game to play on a permanent basis, because this clearly ain't for you.
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OK - how do you propose we decide when a killer gets banned for tunneling?
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BHVR needs to give a bonus that helps the killer win for not tunnelling. Tunnelling is simply the most effective strategy and it's necessary to beat high mmr survivors.
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Gotta tunnel sometimes. If I have a few hooks on different survivors n there's only 2 gens left...someone's gotta go. Doing it at the start of the game at 5 gens though is wack.
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Blame behavior for making killers mmr regard kills but not hook stages,, in other words if i play nice and 2 hook everyone im a loser but if i tunnel the weak links to force early 3v1 and take over from there im good and gain mmr,, also mmr aside some games you do have to tunnel to have a chance as killer,, gens are way faster these days even before the 10 extra seconds and most maps are horrible for killer while survivors only have one bad map for them and a few slightly killer sided
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I think Scott is right that it's not always a viable strategy. If you go up against an actual good team like everyone claims they go against every match then you are going to lose if you tunnel one guy. The rest of the team is going to burn through the gens since you aren't putting any pressure on them. You might kill one guy but the rest will get away. Most survivors who get hard tunneled out are helpless noobs and tunneling wasn't even really necessary in those games to begin with. I keep hearing people say you have to do it at high MMR. I thought high MMR survivors did all the gens in like 3 minutes? How does tunneling counter that? A good looper is going to last a long time. An actual good survivor is not going to get tunneled out in a few minutes. They'll have dead hard, otr, maybe ds.
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How the hell did you do good before the changes? Mf everyone kept dead harding to a good pallet. I drop chase because some dude dead hards to a god pallet, and the next person I chase ALSO has dead hard and extends chase. Should I have just moved faster? What kinda games were you playing??
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I was tunneled out prestige 70 nurse with range at 5 gens. I went to hide in basement on death hook and she searched whole map to get me. After that she slugged rest quickly. Nurses and blights are usually biggest hard tunnelers but other killers usually switch target and play more fair way. That just show no matter how much killers will get buffed tunneling will never end until it's not easiest way to win. Taking someone out like 1-2 gens it's fine usually at that point you have multiple hooks anyway.
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True Nurse and Blight players are often so sweaty.
Sometimes Wesker also tunnels but that is due to people using the vaccine wrong. They do it in his TR or don't leave afterwards.
I always try to be nice as long as the other side is. So if you chose to tbag a lot or clickyclicky, then I tunnel and camp. I keep it nice and simple: you run into me after getting unhooked or do a Gen/ totem in my face without healing or if I find you self-caring in a corner, don't complain about tunneling.
I had someone one complaining about me tunneling as Nurse when I just hooked someone else and saw them on their Plaything with BBQ.
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