Mori offerings have increased by 1000%

Actually making the yellow mori offering which lets you kill the last survivor in the game be base kit was a common request. This new system is just taking that further.

I'm actually looking forward to the new system, it'll speed up the cleanup portion of the game when nobody is standing, the survivors have for all practical purposes lost the match, and all that's left to do is hook the last dying survivors and maybe get a lone straggler if they stand back up. I have yet to see a game from the PTB where the killer hadn't obviously won the match when the Last Standing mori triggered.

If they are going to go through with this, I think it'd be much better to just take our mori offerings and give a per item BP payout rather than the system they have planned.

I mean yeah same thing happened when they announced syringes were getting nerfed to be a heal after time.

A good counter is to put the downed survivor on the hook.

Killers downing last survivor and refusing to hook them for 4 minutes even though they are right next to a hook. Instead killer stands over them waiting for them to bleedout.

Survivors running to dead zones due to hooks permanently breaking and killer cannot bring them to hook so choice is have them bleed out for kill (only kills matter for mmr) or risk survivor wiggling free and escaping or going back to dead zone to waste time.

Killer slugging for 4k, loses a slug that crawled to corner and has to wait for them to bleed out.

Killer faces solo q running a slug build that includes knock out. Killer downs and slugs all 4 survivors and waits 4 minutes for all of them to bleed out.

Basekit mori is a solution to all of these situations.

For me the most fun is the end game slugfest vs an altruistic swf. And only twice ever have they been salty about it in the end game(both comp teams XD). Most of the time It's the most fun that can be had as it's all skill no gens no playing safe just all out skill from both sides. IMO this makes killer win faster if the are winning hard but takes away that fun end game for no reason I can think of. But it also gives base unbreakable which is just absurd especially paired with the real perk. Overall bad change.

What I don't like by making Unbreakable base there isn't any negatives about it. Unbreakable now you can only use it once but the new Base can be used as many times as you have bleed out time.

that would only be true if the game was 1vs1. it is not 1vs1. survivor have 4 to 1 efficient for killer. for every second that the killer takes, the survivor have 4 actions that they could be doing. the killer loses time regardless of how long the recovery action takes. for example, if the survivor goes down in 45 seconds and is slugged. the killer spent 45 seconds to down survivor which 3 people were doing generators during the time. The killer goes after another survivor. 1 survivor is still on generators entire time while other survivor is on generator for 20 seconds. he spends 5-10 seconds walk to the survivor and pick survivor up in <2 seconds.

The killer gets nothing from this interaction because -30 seconds of bleed out is unlikely to kill the survivor and survivor saves 1 hook-state. In new change, the survivor does not need to go to pick up survivor and stays on generators entire time. the killer gets nothing in this interaction. this is why perks that cause slugging always end up being problematic because there is no incremental reward/punishment for being downed towards slugging. Jake's old sabotage perk that permanent destroyed hooks, flip+power struggle, buffed boil over, successful sabotage, hook breaking in the corner of the map and the survivor running into the corner of the map causing the killer to be unable to hook them all cause infinity loops because of lack of punishment for being slugged.

the main strength of slugging for killer occur when killer imbalances the survivors generator efficiency when slugging. for example, you have probably at one point heard of survivor complaining of slugging at 5 generators. This occurs when 2 survivor are downed, 1 person is hooked and another person is slugged at the hook. The remaining two survivors are unable to complete 5 generators when killer is camping hook. this is one area where slugging is strong because 2 minute hook timer is lower then 5 generator completion. A lot of killer that lack game-slowdown will try to force this situation because it gives them re-occurring map pressure.

this other place where slugging gains strength is 3vs1's. If a killer downs 2 survivors, the survivor lose 200% efficiency and only 100% of efficiency remains. the killer can be on par with survivor in term of gen efficiency to kill efficiency. as a result, you can comeback as killer and kill all 3 survivor even if none of survivor have been hooked.

I had this discussion with you. I think it was 3 or 4 months ago where you had position that you can slug for pressure and I had counter-position that slugging for map pressure is ineffective vs efficient teams. My position was that you cannot use slugging only to win like you can with camping and tunneling and that slugging is proxy to stronger camping. you can close out games with slugging but in both situations, slugging relies on survivor to play poorly. with new change, you will have less opportunity to punish poor survivor play. as a result, I dislike the change.

I have always hated that as well. going down as survivor should never be rewarding. the killer should always get something for downing the survivor and survivor should always get punished. your suppose to actively be discouraged from going down as survivor.

There’s a certain minimum total time lost on gens when someone is slugged regardless of how many survivors are alive. In the current game, it’s 30 seconds from one survivor plus 10-15 seconds travel from the other survivor. In the new system it’s 45 seconds for one survivor. That’s why it’s basically a wash in terms of time lost to the survivors on gens in a 4v1 setting.

And saying that the killer “gets nothing” for slugging someone for 30 seconds is false. That’s 30 seconds less total potential time spent on the gens. It also doesn’t necessarily follow that the killer “loses a hook state” because if the killer comes back to pick them up after 30 seconds they still get the hook. In fact, in the new system they’re more likely to get the hook if they come back in about 30-40 seconds if the survivor doesn’t have Unbreakable because it will now take them 45 seconds to stand up instead of 30.

It’s fairly common for me, for instance, to down someone, see another survivor nearby, and leave that dying person slugged for 20-30 seconds while I force a hit or pallet drop from the other survivor since I know I can do it and still have that dying person not working on gens. Slugging isn’t only for literally trying to bleed survivors out, it’s also a way to make more efficient use of your time while a survivor is currently temporarily out of action.

The current system still requires someone to travel to the slugged survivor, which means you can camp or proxy camp the slugged survivor.

It also means at least one of the other survivors can't repair generators for the entire time frame it takes to travel to the slugged survivor, then back to a generator.

Also, requiring a survivor to travel to a slugged survivor is huge, because it gives you the option to chase them instead. Some survivors like to excessively hide, or pre leave generators when they hear a terror radius. So making them travel to a slugged survivor (which might be in a dead zone) can save a lot of time.

Again, it takes 30 seconds currently for a dying survivor to get themselves to one-tap from recovery and about 10-15 seconds for someone else to head over and revive them instantly and then get back on a gen. I'm including that travel time of the other survivor in that number.

if you slug another survivor then chase another survivor. it takes approximately 45 seconds for the killer to down other survivor from healthy to injured. you will not have enough time to go back to first survivor to hook them. the extra 15 seconds does not help you in this situation. it would be better hook then chase the other survivor. the unbreakable change makes survivor self-sufficient. your getting less wasted time from the survivor team as a whole. slugging in 3vs1 will be near impossible in their new system which hurts a lot of killer that have trouble getting hooks.

If your slugging a survivor then chasing another survivor to get a hit or pallet drop which should take around 10-20 seconds. your allowing survivors to sit on generator longer because your delaying your hook. Its unlikely that 15 seconds makes much of a difference between old and new system. there is just more added potential risk if your pick up is delayed for too long compare to old and new.

Well yeah. I’ve been using them more and so have most of the killers I’ve been playing against.

The reworked offerings are terrible, aren’t worth the payout you can get from them, and the reworked ebony offering is straight up unhealthy for the game. It requires you to slug for the 4k as it is otherwise completely out of your control.

So I might as well use the offerings now while they are still decent and not reworked into something literally nobody asked for.

A good rule of thumb is that I never care about the number of survivors that AREN'T doing generators. What I always care about is the number of survivors that ARE on generators, and the current system requires a second survivor to not repair generators for a while.

Your math isn't useful either. You should be comparing the current system where a survivor will die if another survivor doesn't pick them up, and a system where a survivor can pick themselves up. You should be considering that if a second survivor travels to a slugged survivor, they can put themselves in danger, and there is a risk the killer will start chasing them before the slugged survivor can be picked up.

In the current system, slugging keeps one person off gens for infinite minutes if someone doesn't save them.

I don't know why you keep repeating this convenient scenario of a survivor just casually walking up to a slugged survivor, one tapping them, and they both safely walk back to a generator. In reality, I'm going to be proxy camping the slugged survivor, and I'm going to attack another survivor if they get close to the slugged survivor. In the best case scenario, I might even knock this other survivor to the ground before they can pickup the slugged survivor, and now there are two slugged survivors on the ground. Another likely scenario is that the second survivor picks up the slugged survivor, I knock the second survivor to the ground, and then I start chasing the survivor that was just picked off the ground.

Why would you bother proxy camping a slugged survivor instead of hooking them? Slugging for pressure makes sense, slugging a lone survivor to just camp them is an inefficient use of time.

And I mention that scenario because it's pretty common. For instance, you knock someone down, another survivor is nearby who's injured and you down them. You hook one of them and a third survivor saves the one you didn't hook. Happens all the time.

If you're talking specifically about not being able to hook survivors who have Unbreakable and are part of a sabo squad on the PTB, I've said a bunch of times that Unbreakable might need to be adjusted. I haven't seen any games though where survivors who aren't using Unbreakable cause that sort of problem.

Right, so now if I disagree with you I "don't personally play killer". 🙄

Whatever, I'm done with this then, eventually we'll see what happens with the system and who's right.

That's because stats are objective, not anecdotal. I can say "I like doing such and such" or "This or that happened in my game" but it doesn't mean much of anything since it's just my subjective experience. Stats are objective and come from a much wider pool of players or from the game data itself, so if the numbers are indicating something it's stronger evidence of a real effect than what I personally do in my own games. So I'm a lot more interested in analyzing the numbers than debating what "feels" better.

Well yeah they are proposing neutering them.

I've got about 50 or so of them on each killer so I'm gonna get my BP's worth from them before they become useless try to avoid it in the blood web item no 12.

What they are proposing really does seem pretty crap too. You port to a special place for the mori animation taking all the choice, spontaneity and general realism out of it.

Its like they want the game to get blander and blander in an attempt to appease the DC babies.

Care to point to the data that states how many times a survivor scrawls to a deadzone in the corner where the killer can't hook them? Or the data that shows how effective bodyblocking is at denying hooks? How about how many times a hook sabotage has actually prevented a hook, rather than being in vain because the killer wouldn't have made it to the hook anyway?

Not everything is captured by data, not everything can be captured by data, because not everything can be measured or quantified. That's why we have feedback, that's why we have anecdotes. If we only needed the data, the devs wouldn't need to know what we think, they could just look up their spreadsheet and draw their own conclusions, like you seem to like doing so much.

You said this so perfectly! Thank you!