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What if Circle of healing was changed into an aura boon?

Leachy_Jr
Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207
edited October 2022 in Feedback and Suggestions

So if you're in the boon, everyone sees you and you see everyone else, and idk maybe as a side effect you gain a 33% speed increase to healing others. (so no self healing and no self healing stacking with med kits)

I just kinda wanna take sloppy off of most my killers but I risk having boon: "haha pressure goes poof" being placed down and insta losing. And I would prefer if i wasn't forced to tunnel whenever I hear it get placed.

Post edited by Rizzo on
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Comments

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,005

    Well that certainly wouldn’t be as unbalanced and broken as what we have now. I don’t think that would actually be very good though.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    It would be good for solo Q, every time I've asked a CoH user why they use it, their response is either "It's broken asf" or "I want consistent heals in solo q".

    This would help soloq, while not making the perk a free win against hit and run killers. Still worth the perk slot IMO.

    Plus, as it's not like other boons where it gets better when the killer is nearby, it needs to be slightly weaker than the others.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    It's gonna be weaker, that's why I want it nerfed cos its overpowered. I just want a rework that still makes it appealing for soloq players.

  • LittleBigSunset
    LittleBigSunset Member Posts: 255

    While this is an infinitely more balanced concept I don't like the idea of running a Boon perk where you yourself get no tangible benefit. It's directly down to your team and how they play/choose to come to you in the Boon that determines whether or not you get ANY value at all from this version of CoH. All of the other boons in the game offer the Booner (lol) a benefit as soon as they boon the totem.

    I would prefer some sort of cap on how much healing the boon can do before it becomes snuffed automatically. The problem with CoH is that it provides INFINITE healing that the killer will usually be unable to stop without throwing the game to some degree. It outclasses the other boons in terms of value by a mile. If there was some way to cap that value or make it so the perk wasn't just mindlessly strong, it would be much less controversial as a perk.

  • Sadako_Best_Girl
    Sadako_Best_Girl Member Posts: 662

    I was thinking something along the lines of making it a passive heal, you slowly gain healing progress passively at half or a quarter of the normal rate. It would allow you to do gens without having to waste time healing and would punish killers that stay too long at a single loop, but I can see it being quite overbearing on indoor maps.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207
    edited October 2022

    ? did you not read the part where i said i run it on most of my killers.

    Also a perk that deletes an entire killers playstyle and pretty much hands you free wins against killers like sadako and wraith is not balanced.

    I could write a 5 page SA on why this perk is absolutely horrible if you would want that.

  • usesPython
    usesPython Member Posts: 121

    Finding the boon in general isn't a problem, the problem is that if you have to go 15 seconds out of your way to get to the boon to snuff it out then you're realistically losing about a third of a gen every time it gets placed. If it's in a deadzone then yeah keep it up and get easy downs there but if it's out of the way AND in a strong structure (Upstairs in ironworks, Bottom floor of badham preschool, in an area with no gens, etc.) then you basically have to accept that you can't hit and run and instead have to commit to every chase because you don't have the time to keep snuffing it.

    Ok and? Making it basically Boon: Kindred still allows for solo queue survivors to get healed by figuring out where to find teammates, it just stops CoH from killing every hit and run killer in the game

  • Mtom912
    Mtom912 Member Posts: 22

    just remember self care got nerfed, and COH untouched :D

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    "Infinite self heals is very strong, so we're nerfing self care" *ignores the fact that circle of healing is one perk slot and gives the entire team fast self heals infinitely

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,005
    edited October 2022

    Still blows my mind how that happened tbh. Coh was far stronger even before they nerfed SC.

    Fair enough. I mean I think boons as a whole should be reworked. Coh is OP and the rest are mostly too situational.

  • dspaceman20
    dspaceman20 Member Posts: 4,699
    edited October 2022

    No this is a bad idea

    Circle of healing is fine as it. I guess you can make it not work with medkits or healing perks but other then that it should be left alone.

    Or just rework some things about boons that could also work

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    Coh is not fine, deleting a killer playstyle and handing free wins against killers like sadako and wraith is not fine at all.

  • SoulKey
    SoulKey Member Posts: 338

    As a soloQ mainly, this rework moves it to trash tier and won't even be using it ever.

  • Hex_iButt
    Hex_iButt Member Posts: 233

    Maybe you could add an effect where items become less effective when healing with the boon? Give it a cooldown until you can boon again? Idk.

    I still can't really understand why people want this boon to be nerfed again honestly it's pretty fine as is... There's Sloppy/That one Scourge, Shattered, and add-ons that counter CoH as well as healing builds in general. No to mention Legion and Plague who's powers say "Screw you healing!" already.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883
    edited October 2022

    Whats a point of a nerf that doesn't address why it needs to be nerfed in the first place? None of its numbers adjustments have affected how much value it gives while simultaneously being a map pressure outlier and playstyle deterrent. It could be exactly the same as self care and still be op because it both allows others to self care without needing self care, but also because it can create a heal station for the whole team in an area that the killer cannot fit within their pressure. Its an extremely poorly designed perk that doesn't even fit in with the other boons conceptually.

    Post edited by Ryuhi on
  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    It takes barely no time at all, and because CoH benefits from being as far away from the killer as possible there's little risk of it being snuffed, and if it is snuffed then thats a ton of free gen progress. Even if it did take time, the time saved from having infinite fast self heals makes up for it 100 fold.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883
    edited October 2022

    Honestly, I don't have any issue with boons that require the killer being nearby for their effect to happen. Since the routing and snuff time are quite low compared to the blessing time, they kind of function as a one time "trap" that can disorient killers with the effects like hiding scratch marks and other minor effects that can have a major impact depending on how either side plays around them.

    But CoH is the outlier, and continues to be to this day. People will continue to complain about it for as long as it breaks all of the other design concepts that boons adhere to, and until they throw on a stipulation like "must be within the killer's TR to self care" or something of that sort it will continue to be problematic compared to boons themselves.

  • Hex_iButt
    Hex_iButt Member Posts: 233

    Healing in the killer's terror radius kinda defeats the purpose of finding a safe place to reset though, no? Then it literally becomes Self-care 2.0, being the killer's new hex perk lmao.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883
    edited October 2022

    Of course, not having that safety is the point. It introduces a risk that is equal value to being able to heal without needing self-care, a medkit, or another survivor. It also only really runs that risk vs a killer running nurses and/or with a small TR, doesn't exactly hurt stuff like the doctor or wesker anti-heal builds or maps like badham/the game./midwitch where you can be nearby the killer but impose a pretty length path they need to route to reach you. Most importantly it stays consistent with the other boons in terms of their risk/reward nature, and doesn't have a disproportionate impact on stealth killers and/or hit and run playstyles.

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 1,717

    What? WAT? Medkits? Self-care? Teammates?

    No Alchemist's Ring would make it worse for Blight main (9((99(

    So f##king what? Broken things should be gone

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,344

    I would benefit more if that muppet who keeps setting up their Boon would actually do a Gen. Especially against those "I play 4 Slowdown-Perks so that the game takes ages so that even I can win"-Killers who are very common these days. You need every second on a Gen against those and if I see that the guy who set up a Boon at the beginning of the match is setting up their boon again while nobody is injured or anything, something is dying inside me.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883

    Unless they put one on the literal opposite side of the map vs a 3 gen, then its a guaranteed win if nobody throws. The fact it can be placed outside of pressure areas is the biggest issue with the perk, especially since its benefit is one that restores health states without needing coordination or reducing efficiency.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,005

    Exactly, which is why I think they should be reworked and the perks rebalanced as necessary.

  • Hex_iButt
    Hex_iButt Member Posts: 233

    Unless you run Iron Will though, or Bite the Bullet in hopes to not get found and downed it's a pretty bad way to balance it out though. Shadow Step and Dark Theory have that risk/reward to bring the killer towards the boon to help you loop inside its radius. Unbreaka-boon is somewhere in-between; where you hope you get slugged and can make it to the boon to get up in time.

    I feel if you were to make CoH more "in-line" with what we have as boon totems already (even though they're already pretty consistent with the same radius, set-up time, and reliant on a totem), then you'd have to rework the whole thing entirely IMO. And the only thing I can think of that would fit a rework for it is gradually healing over time, as you can't heal yourself and be chased at the same time (that or increase the healing speed to compensate for the risk). It'd have to work like a syringe/Renewal which would be objectively worse than having a survivor take their time to heal themselves vs doing gens.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883

    then you'd have to rework the whole thing entirely IMO

    exactly. My suggestion was simply one to bring it more in line with the concept it is an outlier to. Nobody said those other metrics like time to set up are different, just that its entire dynamic with a concept as core as map pressure is pretty out there, especially when it has arguably the most useful effect. It is nowhere near restricted enough for what it provides.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883

    New dead hard is honestly better than the old one, both in terms of balance and in terms of impact. Its skill floor is a lot higher, and reads are more helpful than reactions, but you can actually extend chases even further than you could with old dead hard.

    Also, funny you mentioned CoB/Overcharge, since overcharge specifically got nerfed to pretty much require pairing it with CoB. That was the devs' idea of trying to break that synergy up.

    Their point about CoH was that it has ruined the viability of multiple more healthy strategies, which has been a significant variable in why those affected would have adapted back to LCD strats. Its a perfectly valid assumption, and not mutually exclusive with the belief there will be people who camp and tunnel regardless of options.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    BROOOOOOOO YES 61% KILL RATE.

    tbf killers are op. Considering nurse has the lowest kill rate we should nerf the high kill rate killers like pig and buff nurse so the game can become the perfect 50% kill rate everyone wants it to be.

    First change i suggest is giving pig 2 traps and giving nurse 1 more blink, just to balance the kill rates a bit.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207

    You literally save so much time healing in CoH that even if someone is constantly setting them up you still deny the killer an absurd amount of pressue, maybe excluding nurse.

    Plus, the boon shouldnt be snuffed if its placed in a good location away from gens or in a main building.

  • Leachy_Jr
    Leachy_Jr Member Posts: 2,207
    edited October 2022

    I feel like ive seen you do this before.

    You see a post complaining about a survivor issue and say stuff like "survivor don't need nerfs cos X exists" and just automatically assume the OP of the thread doesn't also think X is an issue.

    It's like someone saying "I like pancakes" and then you going "so you hate waffles?"

    Do I think stuff like C33, range and starstruck is an issue? Yes. Is Circle of healing also an issue? Yes.

    Is sadako/wraith/twins being almost guaranteed losses against CoH an issue worth complaining about? Absolutely.

    Quite frankly, if I bumped into C33 or ring or detonation delay doc as much as CoH my entire forum account would be complaining about killer.

  • maximo99ac
    maximo99ac Member Posts: 164

    that sounds like bound but worse by a lot COH is fine

  • Hex_iButt
    Hex_iButt Member Posts: 233

    It just doesn't sound like the right way to go about aligning it with Shadow Step and Dark theory. Unbreaka-boon is more inline with CoH where you don't want the killer to really be there as you're getting up. There's like no real good way to balance this perk without nerfing it into the same oblivion as Self-care, or reworking boons/totems as a whole. Requiring the killer to be nearby to heal yourself within a radius is way too restricting, and just would make Self-care the better perk for the work CoH requires to activate.

    And I'd honestly prefer totems in general having a QoL update of sorts.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883

    Thats not necessarily true, especially with exponential, because soul guard, adrenaline, flashlights,etc exist. There are plenty of times where getting up right in front of the killer is when you want to use it to maximize its impact. And you're right that it would make self care the better perk in terms of raw effect, and thats how it should be: CoH is more versatile in terms of loadouts: only one person needs to run it for 4 people to gain its effect. Self care is the "selfish" version that only affects yourself. Its a standard tradeoff between versatility and potency.

  • dspaceman20
    dspaceman20 Member Posts: 4,699

    There are other ways to nerf the perk without your suggestions making it completely useless

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883
    edited October 2022

    Agreed, though I get the feeling we're never going to get anything that makes everyone happy unless everyone honestly understands what it does in its current state. It certainly doesn't take much to make it universally improved from the status quo though.

  • Marigoria
    Marigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    Yes let me just use self care instead and make it a 3v1, I’m sure as a killer main you’d appreciate it.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,883

    Self care when used properly is actually pretty efficient for splitting pressure around the map. Even with its decreased speed, not needing a second person means that second person can be working on more efficiency. Different usage from the average person immediately self caring in a corner when they get a splinter, but it does exist.