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Bullying, Taunting or Just Clean Fun?
So i had a conversation with a guy last night
I was a killer. had the last 2 slugged picked up the last guy because it sucks being slugged. I play survivor and killer and i'd rather just be hooked myself. well he got away and escaped entirely.
It was a great move by him. Of course not only did he stay at the exit teabagging but also messaged me "oof"
so i asked "why taunt? Why isn't winning good enough?".
He said that I'm taking the game to seriously and its just clean fun.
Isn't that easy to say as the one who just won and is taunting someone? Isn't that what bullies always say? "i'm just joking"
So what am i missing? Because this happens in nearly every game where survivors escape. Should survivors just be able to taunt killers or is it a form of a bullying?
I'm not saying people should be banned or anything like that but isn't it kinda terrible that it's just understood to be "just the way it is"?
What do you guys say?
Comments
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I'm going to tweak something R/Slash on The Youtubes says a lot but I feel like it fits
"It's only a prank (or in this case, replace prank with clean fun) if everybody is laughing and enjoying it. Otherwise it's just bullying"
I agree that I don't feel like there should be a punishment for it because I don't really know how you could expect a competitive video game to exist and not let people interact with each other like that but it's a major reason why I don't ever really T-Bag, head nod, bleed out, etc people. I just wish people would realize there is another person on the other end of that opponent and act accordingly.
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Its always been a concept of multiplayer vs gaming. The winning team talks trash / taunts their win at the losing team. Cod, halo, DBD, WoW, literally anything. Some people don’t, a lot do. I also think it’s a cycle.
for example; (A) group of survivors is beat by (A) killer. (A) killer taunts that group of (A) survivors by hitting on hook, nodders, post game chat etc. (A) group of survivors then goes into the next game against (B) killer and beats that killer. That group of survivors, still salty from the last killer will taunt their win at (B) killer. The cycle then goes on and on.
Of course there are always the gamers that never do it either way, but they are the minority.
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Yeah taunting you and deliberately DMing you to mock you over him escaping isn't "good clean fun" it's trying to make you feel bad for being bested. Which is pretty sad.
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I like to break this cycle. As surv I won't tbag or torch click, and as killer i won't hit on hook or nod etc. Unless the player in question has been BMing me in which case i definitely will, because i like to see toxic players given a taste of their own medicine. But I'll never do it unprovoked, and as killer I'll pretty much always let 4th survivor go unless I'm sweating a challenge/pips or they were toxic.
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I very rarely (not never, I am a flawed human) do anything that is considered "taunting" unless it's giving back, or I am really trying to draw aggro from a tunneller/camper, or if a surv (or survs) were super BM-y.
But one thing I really go to great pains to always avoid is carrying ill feeling from one match the next. On the rare occasion a match gets me super tilted, I'll take a minute or two to decompress.
Of course, if I am in a head state where I am getting easily tilted, I'll usually just stop playing.
As for the topic in general, intent will always take a back seat to inference, whether we like it or not. Especially in a game where they ways we have to express ourselves to reach other can be so ambiguous. There have been times where I nodded to recognize a good play (or after ending a really good chase), but then realized that almost assuredly the person on the other end interpreted it another way entirely.
Is one of us wrong and the other right in these situations? No, not really. Much like real life, there is nuance to these things to be considered. So I usually just try to be as non-demonstrative as I can be.
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Same here. As a survivor I don't even bring a flashlight because i don't like the toxic nature they cause so often. Never wait at the exit. I'll run past the teabaggers and escape. Killer feels bad enough with losing believe me.
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I'll definitely torch blind, but i never get toxic about it. Playing to the best of your ability is not disrespectful. If i get beasted by a swf team I'll always show respect unless they tbag and torch click. Which they do an awful lot unfortunately.
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You and I are the same. I don’t BM unless it’s constant BM from them. Some games as survivor I will teabag and click at the killer mid game. It’s not out of BM though, but more so trying to get them to commit to chasing me because the team needs time to finish up a gen or get an unhook.
But no matter the team / outcome, I always say ggwp afterwards.
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We're a rare breed lol, and yh trying to bait killer to chase you with those is perfectly reasonable. I actually really enjoy letting last surv go, like carrying them to hatch or letting them open exit gate and nodding lol
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Killers tend to shake their heads or hit me on the hook. They like the result of the game and I don't think too much of it; because I have no idea what they went through in their previous games or their mentality in the game in general. In most cases it is taunting or an anger response on their end. There are also those who enjoy playing this way. And that doesn't necessarily mean they're angry, it's probably in their nature. But I tend to believe that some players simply just not enjoying playing the game, and bullying others to ruin their enjoyment as well. Apparently they have no other games to play.
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Nah. It's just a rationalization mean people in general use so their actions seem less reprehensible, so the society accepts them (actions) and they can feel good about themselves without the need to change their behavior.
Bonus points for making the victim actually feel bad for "taking things out of proportion"
Nevertheless, these online bullying actions are similar to a tiny chihuahua barking to the top of its lungs. Annoying and offensive, but ultimately harmless and projects no power from them over you. A person with a reasonably healthy physche should be able to shrug off this or even have fun at their expense.
Not to say that this isn't a problem.
somewhat frail individuals might suffer from this, and for them to have to "endure" it or abandon an activity they probably take refuge on to begin with is unreasonable and discriminatory.
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Should leave them to bleed out while you still can.
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I mean it can't hurt to be reminded that this is a game every now and again but teabagging in the gates is not really what I consider doing that. I mostly start nodding when they teabag me because it makes the situation a bit silly and often makes survivors be a bit more friendly. Also I know it sounds stupid but for your own sake, don't go anywhere near the exit gates after they got opened. You don't need to torture yourself by letting them show you how much they "dominated".
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Part of the problem is that Dead by Daylight isn't meant to be a competitive game. It's a survival horror game. Survival horror has never been a competitive genre. People play survival horror for the same reason they watch slasher movies and read Stephen King books: for the thrills and the fun. All this competitive nonsense is carryover from a decade's worth of armchair G.I. Joes acting hard in CoD lobbies. That mentality has no place in this game.
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If thats what it is for you, thats fine. For some however it is a competitive game and for others its just casual fun. You cant really judge how someone interperets the way the game is meant to be played.
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Unfortunately the amount of "toxic" players is increasing steadily. You really don't find good chats these days at the end of a match - they're certainly more rare than bad chats.
From a player perspective this is one of the reasons I stopped playing, I just don't have the time or patience to deal with "toxic" behavior in a game. I'll play with friends if the situation comes up, but DBD isn't about the hunt or the chase anymore. It's about who can ruin the game more for whoever is playing.
Case and point is the forums. While a small percentage of the community uses the forums, you can hardly have any kind of reasonable debate without it turning into a war of killers vs survivors.
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I can if that interpretation leads directly to the toxicity in the community and makes enjoyment of the game difficult or impossible. Where do you think it comes from? All you ever hear when one of these joystick jockeys tries to defend their behavior is, "oH, yOu NeVeR wOuLd HaVe LaStEd In ThE mOdErN wArFaRe LoBbiEs." As if that makes it okay to continue that behavior elsewhere. They made their way over here to spread their obnoxiousness, with their ooh-rah of "get gud."
Also, allow me to give you a little perspective. You know what you won't find anywhere in Dead by Daylight? Leaderboards. No updates displaying the Best Killer Main and Survivor Main of the week on our main menu screens. No list of the Top Ten Highest-Scoring Swfs. You know why?
Because: It's. Not. A. Competition.
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I can if that interpretation directly contributes to the toxicity of the community and makes enjoyment of the game difficult or impossible. Where do you think it comes from? All you ever hear when one of these joystick jockeys tries to defend their behavior is, "oH, yOu NeVeR wOuLd HaVe LaStEd In ThE mOdErN wArFaRe LoBbiEs." As if that makes it okay to continue the behavior elsewhere. They just migrated over here to spread their obnoxiousness, with their ooh-rah of "get gud."
Let me give you a different perspective. You know what you won't find anywhere in Dead by Daylight? Leaderboards. No updates displaying the Best Killer Main and Survivor Main of the Week on our main menu screens. No list of the Top Ten Highest-Scoring Swfs. You know why?
Because: It's. Not. A. Competition.
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If it wasnt competitive you would be playing against bots not people, and there is even a non cpetitve mode where you can play with your friends custom games. Not everyone who plays the game in a competitive manner is a toxic dirtbag either.
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I wouldn’t call it bullying but it’s definitely obnoxious.
I mean both of you sharing a post game laugh about the sudden turn of events would have been the height of good sportsmanship.
This is an example of obnoxious bad sportsmanship moreso than bullying I think.
You don’t have to be taking it to seriously to say it sours the game experience somewhat to play with obnoxious bad sports, but it also shouldn’t be as upsetting and impactful a genuine bullying often is.
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It's a party game for the enjoyment of all without competition. You wouldn't go to a dinner party plotting to decimate all the guests at charades and brag loudly about it for the rest of the night. You wouldn't show up for Thanksgiving intending to body the entire family at UNO while shaming your cousins for how they played their cards. Unfortunately, some people do. Society generally regards them as blue ribbon a-holes, and they never get invited to any parties for the rest of their miserable lives. Ultimately, the object of those games is to HAVE FUN and not worry about who wins and who loses. Same thing here.
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it reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in "natural born killers" when Michael Madsen's character is choking some hooch while she is freaking out. He just smiles and says, "I'm just kidding" while continuing with his uncouth behavior.
I don't believe either side should go too long without crossing over to the other side now and then. it has helped my mental health tremendously. perhaps...just emotional well being. anyways...I used to react like a flagrant nutjob to teabags and the like. face-camping, tunneling...the works. I started playing with a mic more and wow...that sure is fun. lol, not sure why but sassing the killer is hilarious. dead dawg saloon with head on? omg, don't get me started.
I am much quicker to realize that this is just how the game works. I give in to the madness now and then but not nearly like I used to. to understand and comprehend (and most importantly...not be owned by such antics), one must experience and try not to react on the same level. works for me.
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That's Tom Sizemore you're thinking about. Michael Madsen wasn't in Natural Born Killers. 😉
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If that were the case then why eliminate players at all.
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I don't mind a little cheeky bm and macro clicks as killer but if you are one of those guys that tbag at every safe pallet and point ill probably ignore you,, most of the times i can feel these people screaming internally "pick me, chase me" so i deny them the fun 😂😂
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What are you talking about?
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best to ignore him
hes stroking his #### off because he escaped 1 match where his teammates all died.
Tell him, "good luck with your next games" to remind him his whole team just got obliterated.
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Yeah it’s super annoying. And that’s why I run bloodwarden and noed.
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I've only ever t-bagged maybe once or twice, but only if it was warranted where the killer was BMing hard. Like, I ended up getting tunneled in a match playing with a couple of friends, camped and hit on hook repeatedly until everyone came through to save me at the end. It was a sweet vengeance moment where I'll be a shitter because they were being a shitter.
Otherwise, if the killer and the match was an overall vibe, I'll wait at the exit gate, but I won't t-bag just because I can get out. I'll just stand and let the killer get a last hit in if there's enough time with the EGC, and nobody to body block for.
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Ah the empty narrative of "party game for the enjoyment of all".
A party where one person is NEVER part of the group (outside of kyf) and always antagonizing the rest with counteracting goals.
Truly a party game to play TOGETHER.
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Watch and learn.
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You said: It's a party game for the enjoyment of all without competition.
To which my question:
If that were the case then why eliminate players at all.
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ah, ok. here I am being all artsy-fartsy, trendy and referential. they both look the same and play essentially the same characters though...so, there is that.
anyways...at about 11:40 in this video, a "toxic" nea was all clicky-clicky and antagonistic the whole game, my initial plan was to foist her mental bedlam back into her tenfold but then I realized I didn't want to punish the next 6 lobbies while still staying mad. she seemed to struggle more with my decision than I did.
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The messaging and trash talking is uncalled for but anything in game goes, I just see the humor in all of it , I'm one of the few people who actually enjoys going against a insidious bubba and backpack demo etc... Trolling is what keeps this game alive in my opinion because on both sides people love the content and YouTube proves it with all the troll builds content creators do that get millions of views, it's fine to troll in game as long as you don't start disrespecting the other player on a personal level after the match and don't have a huge ego about it all
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I disagree. People shouldn't be douchebags to each-other just for fun, toxicity is definitely bad but you're still using reductionism to disqualify DBD from being amongst the games people compete in. It doesn't matter if there's leaderboards, with BHVR's track record of taking long to implement things one can easily argue that this isn't by intentional design... Plus even if it was it still doesn't change the fact that DBD is a PvP game and ALL PvP games are inherently competitive
Competition =/= Toxicity
It CAN get toxic but that doesn't mean competition overall is bad. Without the population of players and content creators 'competing' in DBD the game would be dead and this forum post would be moot because nobody would be here to read it. Mostly everything in life is competitive, DBD isn't different. The Devs themselves encourage it too as they're promoting an upcoming tournament on their Twitter
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No you didnt you said its not a competitve game, you also said It's a party game for the enjoyment of all without competition.
To which my question:
If that were the case then why eliminate players at all.
The relevance of the question i will explain for you. Eliminating a player gives a competitive advantage, and knocks a player out of the game ending their fun. So why do it if the game is what you said it is?
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Okay, well, maybe it would help if you could answer this for me: what exactly are the players competing for? What reward does the game offer the participants that is of such value, that it requires a competitive mindset? As I mentioned elsewhere, the game does not make use of leaderboards, so it doesn't celebrate achievements of great measurement or quantity. On top of that, the game also does not officially declare anyone winners or losers. If you're a survivor, you either die, are sacrificed, or escape. If you're a killer, the potential outcomes are brutal killer, merciless killer, or entity displeased. Everyone is given a certain amount of bloodpoints based on their performance, and yes, those who are knocked out of the game will receive less. On the other hand, you know as well as I do that it is entirely possible for the killer to murder or sacrifice all four survivors, or for all four survivors to successfully escape the killer, and yet each player ends up earning a reasonably equal amount of bloodpoints, provided they satisfied certain conditions of their respective four categories. And last but not least, the bloodpoints are nothing more than common in-game currency. If you get knocked out early from one match and end up with a smaller amount, there's always the chance to earn more in the next match.
So...if the game does not recognize any kind of extraordinary achievements...if it doesn't declare winners or losers...and everyone is rewarded with identical currency...then what is it about this game that engenders a competitive nature of such intensity that it invites unparalleled hostility between the participants?
See the whole thing puts me in mind of young children playing in the back yard with Nerf guns and water guns to play in some fashion of pretend war. They divide into sides with an unspoken understanding that, depending on what might strike them and where, some of them will end up "dead." Naturally, every team invariably has that one kid that will argue about whether or not they actually took a hit, but generally speaking children will participate in this kind of play without worrying about any sense of "winning or losing." They play. They fire their weapons. They take hits. They enact some hysterical pantomime of death. They have FUN. 🤷♂️
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It baffles me how serious people are taking some pixels moving up and down. I really don't understand how people feel bullied by this and I think I never will. Bullying back in my days was something different
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intgink it would be funny if a survivor repeatedly and rapidly crouched that the entity wrapped them in tendrils and held them.
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it is the way it is, and it sucks. All i ever try to do is be as minimally toxic as possible and hope that it makes a change somehow. Otherwise, as he said, oof.
and either way if theyre watching you at the exit gate just go farm destruction points and bank on them blowing it and getting caught in the collapse timer
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Same here, fellas.
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Well as you pointed out there are bloodpoints, which if there was no competitive measure in those everyone would just get a flat amount for completing the match.
As for winning and losing, your right the game doesnt set a definitive standard condition allowing players to define it for themselves, some play to the emblem system, for survivors it can be either escaping or the team escaping, for killer it can be based on kills, and some find victory in having fun as you said.
Competition is built right into the core of the game, two sides working against each other, each trying to complete their goal before the other.
You seem to be automatically associating a competitive mindset with inherent toxicity. You can be competitive and play with that mindset without being toxic. Take any beer league sport, bowling, hockey, baseball, they can be competitive, have winners and losers, and yet still be played for fun, and in a respectful way.
This question you asked:
then what is it about this game that engenders a competitive nature of such intensity that it invites unparalleled hostility between the participants?
The answer to this question has nothing to do with the game and whether you or I see it as competitive or not. This is specifically related to individual people and their behaviours, some people are just jerks not really anything you can do about it.
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I embraced the chaos. I even bm myself when I feel like it. I just care about myself which is the best thing to do in community like this.
There is no point in being "nice" during a match. I just don't resort to messaging people outside of the game. I just play the game however I want now and couldn't care less about anything.
Why should I? And of course I am fine with others doing what they want before you ask.
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