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TO ALL THE SURVIVORS THAT SAID 6.1 KILLED THE GAME
It definitely seems like you all overreacted. You know what is actually killing the game? 1/4 teammates completely sandbagging *every time*. The game should be balanced around all 4 survivors playing together but since most solo queue teammates either DC, die on first hook, or just troll the the entire game killer feels "OP"
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I mean, my main complaint with 6.1 was that everyone started mass DCing and killing themselves on hook...
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6.1 failed and didnt bring the hoped results. At the same time survivors are not having fun anymore and Q killer all the time or not even launch DbD. Very well seen at the constant BP BONUS incentive on survivor side aswell as all the complains and general low motivation of survivors to just give up.
And if that wasn't enough bhvr continues with this trend in the next patches. Amazing.
Post edited by CoDismylife on25 -
It was a massive success. Most people got exactly what they'd been asking for throughout the years. 1 patch drops and suddenly survivors have zero fun, even though they had plenty of fun before? Okay. If that's all it takes for them to leave, they can go. The rest of us will adapt and have fun. The low motivation of certain survivors isn't the game's fault, and it certainly isn't 6.1.0's fault. This entitled/lazy survivor mentality has been going on for years. They want to put in minimum effort and feel godlike, and when that doesn't happen they rage quit.
I hope BHVR continues with patches like that, so that the undesirables who screw over their teammates and skew stats constantly will leave the rest of us in peace. I also want to see the reactions to any potential killer buffs, since people usually lose their minds over that stuff. Seems like every patch drop it's, "The worst patch that's ever happened!"
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6.1 was a great success. It got me to play more survivor than before since it's more fun. I'd like to see status icons now but the game is heading in a good direction.
Your survivor BP bonus argument is very disingenuous as well. A Killer BP bonus would only kick in if less than 1 in 5 people in queue are queuing as Killer.
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Same, and i got a lot of fire because of that. People defending the right to end the match early, because they didn´t have fun. Seemed kinda weird.
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Don't get me wrong, SoloQ and even SWF can definitely be cringe but people make it seem as if they also don't get gifted countless free wins and easy matches as well. The true difficulty is trying to coexist with teammates that will willingly sandbag you for the pettiest reasons and trying to compensate for weak links that just cannot last long on their own while also focusing on gens...They try to make it seem like the difficulty is interacting with the Killer themselves when we all know its nowhere close to impossible to deal with 99% of the roster. 6.1 didn't change SoloQ for the worse, it was already in a bad spot and Killers finally got shown some basic love that they've been asking for for years
People just try to gaslight other players into conceding that the entire game is "clearly Killer sided" while disregarding the fact that the bulk of their losses and frustrating matches come from their teammates being boosted buttcheeks
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I just think its ridiculous that I still see post about gen rushing given the boost to gen times.
I wonder what some people actually want the game to be or will they only be happy if they face bots that do nothing
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Killer has 100% past 6pm on na most of the time lol. If unbreakable patch goes through it will inflate survivor's without actual skill input.
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Solo Q still needs buffs.
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It didn't absolutely kill the game but it definetly made playing survivor less fun, at least for me. The biggest problem to me is that despite the buffs killers seem to camp and tunnel even more, since now those tactics are stronger than ever.
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Why are those tactics stronger than ever?
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This. Even though a lot of us weren’t fans to most of the changes (personally I could care less about DH & DS cause I rarely used them as survivor & tried my best to play around them whenever I played killer), we’re resilient and could adapt. It’s the entitled ######### who couldn’t/can’t adapt to 6.1, in combination of the ######### MMR having such a wide range (it seems) that ruined the game.
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I'm having more fun than ever when playing survivor, the basekit borrowed time help a lot against tunnelers and the BP bonus on survivor side is not constant as you say, at least in Europe, from 7:30 pm to 10:00 pm the bonus is 100% in the killer side and after that, from 10:00 pm to 1:00 am there are no bonus for either side, after that the bonus for survivors starts, and remember, for starting a match 4 survivors are needed and only one killer, 4 times more players, it's logical that the survivor bonus lasts longer.
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i think survivor is a lot better than before with reassurance and base BT being added. i generally enjoy the gameplay of solo survivor. in fact sometimes it is even more enjoyable than playing killer, but really this is a back and forth between facing a loaded killer vs a loaded swf on something like RPD.
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It sure did kill the survivor populus. We're at the lowest point since 2020 btw!
You know for who also it killed the game? Any new players who aren't killer,or the rare casual players who make the backbone of this game.
Again,the 6.1.0 baseline buffs buffed the strongest killers and the new killer meta is infinitely stronger versus solo queue. It has killed the game for me, personally.
Survivor without a full squad is miserable and killer is plain boring.
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Didn't change anything for me. I always tunnel out whoever I don't like the most at the match screen. I definitely go for the toolbox or flashlight guy first.
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6.1.0 shifted the meta and brought more build diversity to matches, as intended. It also made killers more of a threat to be reckoned with and increased the kill rates, again, as intended. It gave better rewards for prestiging and reduced the perk grind. Sure, it didn't reduce the general grind, but that was fixed by the patch that followed it, massively reducing bloodweb costs.
So, unlike what you say, 6.1 was a success and brought the intended results. The number of survivors dropped in comparison to killer? Sure, but survivors are still the majority. Don't forget the BP incentive doesn't increase when one side has more players than the other, but when the number of each role isn't 4 for each killer as desired. Survivor BP bonuses don't mean there are more killers, but that they aren't outnumbered in 4x1. And there are times at night when killers have a 50% or even 100% BP bonus, which means the number of survivors is WAY higher.
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I just want to know what the average game times from each patch
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Whiny entitled survivors who have never played a killer match in their life will always bring the game down.
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longer gen times means camping is stronger. shorter dash time means its easier to tunnel. Off the record and borrowed time are easy to tunnel through due to built in save the best for last stacks and shorter dash times. And decisive strike is basically worthless unless you are on a stun the killer challenge or the killer picks you up in a strong loop
make sense?
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Meta slowdown perks have been nuked. Making gens effectivly the same speed as before (or even faster, if you consider the buffed survivor gen perks).
Short dash time is countered by the inbuild speed bonus after a unhook. The fact that BT even stacks on it makes it kinda ridiculous that its considered to be easier to tunnel now, than before with no protection at all. Furthermore, i see a lot of survivors attempting to body block with the inbuild BT.
OtR took the place of DS. Giving a longer protection time. But i agree that DS could use 2 more seconds of stun time.
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Or, you know, this game might just have peaked?
It's still very healthy numbers wise, despite it's age.
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The battlepass is the only thing that kills the game because progressively more and more people are just fine with throwing the game to complete their challenges because you are locked into doing ONLY ONE ARBITRARY THING per game for the battlepass and people want their items.
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It's almost impossible to fix, as there are 2 matchups here - SWF versus killer and Solo queue versus killer. The game now feels balanced around SWF, where before it felt balanced around solos. Trying to balance for both is very, very difficult, and I'm not sure that status icons will make things that much better.
There's a psychological component here too, where I think survivors got a bit complacent on being able to completely pants some killers who they now struggle against.
Halloween usually sees a nice uptick, as does Christmas, so we'll see what happens there.
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Shrug. Attack on Titan worked out okay, and it's not that far from something like Oni or Huntress, if you think about it.
The only killer that feels really out of place imho is Trickster.
As for 6.1.0, I think that was mostly aimed at game health, which is more retention focused than attraction focused. Keep in mind - this game is now pretty elderly.
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As someone who plays both sides, but considered themselves a killer main (at least before 6.1), the game is just less fun now.
The 6.1 base game changes were more or less ok. Faster cooldowns to killer actions makes the game feel smoother, while offering little real advantage, gen times are a bit of a non-event given that regression perks were generally nerfed*, basekit BT and haste on unhook is fine.
DH change was brilliant, its still a strong perk in the right hands but it's no longer obnoxious. DS was probably over nerfed, it should be disabled in endgame, but the duration didn't need to change. Selfcare was nerfed unnecessarily.
But it's not as simple as whether or not killers or survivors benefitted the most, because overall the changes were quite balanced. It's what exactly those changes were and how they affected the game. The main issue is the killer perk changes:
In an effort to 'break up the meta' they nerfed the top used perks to the ground, which not only made them non-meta, but non-viable. For a little while this did the job, until the new meta was established. All we did was trade one meta for another, and that's the problem, the new meta is boring, unearned and in some cases downright toxic. It's what makes playing against killer very 'unfun' and playing as killer too, because you want to use the 'optimal' perks.
Ruin, Pop, BBQ, Pain Res, old meta perks, but they all did something that encouraged or facilitated healthy killer behaviour, mostly leaving the hook to pressure other survivors.
Instead our new established meta includes Pentimento, Eruption, Overcharge and Call of Brine. None of these perks require any specific behaviour to 'earn' their effects, and disproportionately target solo survivors as they are easily countered by a coordinated team, but incredibly oppressive against uninformed survivors. Pentimento specifically, is too strong for what it can do, when survivors lose track of totems. When a killer is running a full anti-boon/regression build based around Pentimento, solo survivors don't stand a chance. What's more is that these perks, while still being meta, also compliment a tunnelling/camping playstyle just fine. There is no urgency to leave a hook, you can ignite your totems and kick the gens at any advantageous opportunity you have, and can then defend the relevant zones with a hooked survivor nearby, all the while making survivors incapable of completing gens, as they're 30% slower or incapacitated, purely because they don't have voice comms.
In my comment linked below, I've listed the perks that should be meta, in order to facilitate a healthy gameplay loop.
If these perks were sufficiently buffed, not necessarily by a lot, but in comparison we had Pentimentio/Eruption/Overcharge/CallofBrine nerfed out of the meta. Then killers would need to earn their value by not camping and not tunnelling.
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As a Killer main I say it failed, you can only 4k so many times with relative ease before you stop enjoying the game. I very rarely get sweaty swfs and even when I do in most games it's either very close or I still walk through them. Before 6.1 this wasn't even close to the case for me.
I rather go back to getting crapped on again atleast then I had to try and not do stupid stuff to give survivors a chance. I don't think balancing around SWF is the right call at all. Everyone talks about sweaty swfs and make it seem like they're in 8/10 games but in reality they're only 1/10 hell sometimes 1/20.
Survivor feels like straight hell due to matchmaking. We have completely selfish survivors deliberately sandbagging the team so they can get their sole survivor/left behind/wake up win. we have match making putting you with potatoes who do absolutely nothing but hide. It is extremely frustrating when you get paired with a sole survivor/wake up/left behind and 2 do nothings.
Sole Survivor/ Left Behind/ Wake Up meta is a terrible meta and not healthy for the game at all. 6.1 Ruined the game for both sides.
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Ah yes, I'm definitely not trying to get a sabo daily done, noooooooo, that can't be it at all
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I mean players of the game said that
and that this point are they wrong?
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6.1.0 was a long overdue patch. It didn't fix the core problems but it helped. Survivors were wating 10+ minutes for a match before because no one even dared to play killer. That shows exactly how fun the game was before. Survivors were having a good time casually destroying killers with their fun and very varied builds. Who didn't love the 70% pick rate on DH for example? Or loading into a match knowing that you lost right there and then because you got a bad map and a bad spawn? Killers got some slight buffs. It's not something insane.
The problem is however that SoloQ is worse than ever because of people dcing or killing themselves. Don't blame that on a patch that had very little impact on that. The reason these people give up is they want to dominate and bully the killer. Even before 6.1.0 you would see people dc as soon as they realized that their idea of a fun match in which they could ruin someone else's experience without any trouble at all was not going to happen.
6.1.0 was not perfect. It buffed some killers more than others. Some killers are now even less fun to go against, I know. But it also helped weaker killers a bit. Personally I would have preferred to see some more SoloQ buffs before the killer buffs. But let's not forget that 6.1.0 did not just buff killers. It also introduced base kit BT which is a huge deal. It nerfed Ruin, Pop and some other gen regression perks that survivors did not like and it even made some perks that no one was ever using viable and strong on both sides.
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"It was a massive success. Most killers got exactly what they'd been asking for throughout the years. 1 patch drops and suddenly survivors have zero fun, even though they had plenty of fun before? Okay. If that's all it takes for them to leave, they can go. The killers will adapt and have fun. The low motivation of most survivors is the game's fault, and it certainly is 6.1.0's fault. This entitled/lazy survivor mentality that a game should be fun has been going on for years. They want to not be camped and tunneled, and when that happens every game they rage quit.
I hope BHVR continues with patches like that, so that the only the biggest masochists that love to be camped, tunneled and just die constantly will leave us killers in peace so we never have to try again. I also want to see the reactions to any potential killer buffs, since rational people usually lose their minds over that stuff, because they haven't been needed in a long time. Seems like every patch drop it's, "The worst patch that's ever happened!" Why are people upset just because it's true?"
Fixed that for you. This is pretty much the general mentality of people on this forum and why nothing on here should ever be taken seriously. It never changes. Kill rates are over 60% and that's still not good enough. No. No one on here will be happy until survivors just spawn directly on the hooks. Change the name from survivor to Victim and make it clear that this is the intent. Victims exist to be tortured for the killer's amusement. Nothing more.
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it's not even just people dcing or killing themselves, its also sandbagging team mates and the Sole Survivor/ Left Behind/ Wake up survivors that are also a problem. Selfish survivors is a bigger problem than the hook suicides/dcers which has gone down dramatically of late.
Yesterday I didn't have anyone dc on my team or hook suicide. But in 1 in every 2 games there was that sole survivor who would do anything they could to get their team killed so they could escape on their own.
Now survivors can't really be toxic to the killer so instead they've completely turned around and started being toxic to their own team. For instance you can be on a gen repairing it and they will walk up and instead of helping, just spam crouch spin around then they will get on the gen blow it up on purpose(you know it is on purpose when it happens twice in a row almost instantly) and run away.
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Well, that depends on opinion. I for one played both sides before, but was a solo survivor main. Now, i find solo play is unbearable. Yes, mostly because of the teammates, but you cant choose teammates in solo queue, mmr does that for you. so, if you want to balance the game for swf, then solo simply dies.
However, since i played both sides anyway, i just switched to killer most of the time. And i get a 4k more often than not, even though i wasnt a very good killer before. (my 2 main killers are hag and dredge, but i play meyers, doctor, huntress, trickster, wraith, bubba and trapper as well. thats mostly why i am not very good with any expect my 2 mains).
The thing is, stomping solo survivors really isnt as thrilling, and gets old very fast. Meaning, i play a lot less dbd overall, because solo is unbearable and killer way too easy. If people playing the game less than before is a massive success, then yeah, i am a part of that.
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It's actually very possible to fix by signifcantly buffing solo queue.
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This. People blamed their losses on comp 4-mans too much when they often got ######### on by solos because they played bad. Now you only get beaten by those or if you just make 400 mistakes.
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This is very true. The current killer meta is really bad for Solos and tolerable for SWF.
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How do you buff solo queue in a way that:
- Won't also be a buff for SWF
- Won't require abilities and perks to work differently in solo versus SWF (which the devs have emphatically said they will never do)
?
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Yeah I got a lot of cheaters lately too..very discouraging.
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God even it buffed SWF a tiny bit that doesnt matter since the two will be closer and balanced around. Stop trying to advocate against solo queue buffs I swear to god.
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I mean, if you're gonna act like a victim, might as well call yourself one. 🤷♂️
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I don't know if you've noticed, but this game has a long history of stats being unreliable, just because of how it's collected. This is the only game where I immediately scoff at stats. I stopped listening to Scott quite a while ago because he's wrong more often than not, and the reason he's not wrong all the time is because he flip-flops, on MMR, on hooks vs kills, etc. Y'all need to start thinking for yourselves, have self-awareness, and speak from experience. That's how I come to my conclusions. The dip in player count is taken absolutely out of context. Even if it isn't just your regular old dip and rise of the player count, and it actually is people disgruntled with the direction of the game, I'd consider that a positive since the direction of the game is better than it was before. We've weeded out people who are fed up because the game wasn't tailored to be super easy for them. The fact that we have people saying that the game is unplayably killer sided because of the slight meta shift for both sides, barely noticeable attack recovery and kicking speeds, and at least some straight-up regression for kicking a gen, shows to me that they either aren't thinking for themselves or they're survivor biased, because this was just a drop in the bucket for where killers should be at this point. Survivors got buffed too, and by this community's standards, that's a success.
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It's true. Survivors see 1 decent patch for killer, and they're out. Nobody's asking for killers to be unbeatable.
Learn to bait better, and also to come up with original thoughts instead of changing out a few words in someone else's paragraph.
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It's false equivalency that people are getting from this. The game isn't unbearable for solo because of the killer buffs; it's unbearable because of the teammates. They're either bad or they give up, 9/10 times. But against efficient solos or a SWF it's just as hard for killer as before. That's what might be the cause of the player count being: god-awful teammates as survivor, nothing but sweats and noobs as killer. There's almost never an even match.
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You know why so many people are out? Because solo queue already was the weakest role,always has been. Remind me of the last time solo queue got buffs,again? It's been a miserable experience for a while.
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simple you dont give a crap about swf because in reality they're not much better than soloq right now. Pretend swf doesn't exist and balance the game. If you're going against swfs right now and still struggling you're doing something wrong.
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6.1 was a failure because it promised to address tunneling and camping however it made both even stronger
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Yeah, people may go against 4 man swfs try harding. But in my 9 months of being a blight main with on and off breaks from the game I have gone against 3 comp teams to my memory. And I gotta say they are the most boring salty players ever. Killers most definitely over exaggerate the teams and players they go against at times.
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- You provide information that is superfluous to voice comms. This could be showing each survivors perk loadouts in the loading screen or just in game info after the game has loaded. Or it could be action icons next to portraits showing what other survivors are doing at any given time. Or it could even go as far as something like basekit Kindred, maybe not exactly basekit Kindred, perhaps something more like 'Killer Instinct' but for other survivors. SWF can't be buffed by these things, because it's information a SWF will already know.
- Put thought into perk design and perk buffs/nerfs. For example, Eruption was buffed and is now a meta perk. Eruption disproportionately punishes solo survivors, because they can't get a warning 2 seconds before a survivor get's downed on the opposite side of that map. Pentimento is also more effective against solo survivors than SWF because as a solo survivor you can't keep track of which totems have been cleansed by yourself. I mentioned killer park meta on the first page, why this is an issue and how it can be fixed. Meanwhile Selfcare was nerfed, it was nerfed because it was used a lot, but it was used a lot by solo survivors as a crutch perk, which helped survivors in the lower MMR brackets (because they're solo) climb out of them. Old Selfcare wasn't meta, because a SWF can coordinate heals much more effectively without it or using other healing perks. All of this can be designed in a way that benefits solo survivors more while SWF aren't impacted.
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That's not what the numbers say. SWF had...what was it? 15% higher rates of escape?
BHVR wanted higher kill rates. Buff SWF again, kill rates go down and we're right back here in 6 months.
Voicecoms aren't telepathy.
I'm all for status icons, but anything beyond that is going to be a buff to SWF, particularly what seems to be the most popular request - baseline Kindred.
As for perk design, that's a sword that cuts both ways. PTS, for instance, isn't that bad when it's in a random group. With SWFs, stacking perks, items and map offerings, the gens fly.
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People need to stop parroting this "61% kill rate". It's meaningless numbers, it's simply bad statistics to try and glean anything out of that number. It is an average among all killers, across all MMR brackets, it's meaningless, and everyone who tries to use that "61% kill rate" argument looks stupid.
For example, the lowest MMR bracket, the newbies and the worst players, is always going to be very killer sided. This is due to the shear immutable fact that survivors reap the benefits of experience more than killers. Newbie killers can just walk in a straight line up to a newbie survivor and down them, but a survivor has to know how to loop, know how to time pallets, etc. No amount of 'balancing' will ever make the lowest MMR bracket any less killer sided. So we accept that the 'lowest 7%' is going to be something like a 90% kill rate. Hold that thought.
Next, where do you balance the game? Do you balance around the top skill levels? or the Middle?
If you balance so the middle range is roughly 50%, then the highest levels will inevitably be around 30-40%, because the highest MMR brackets are saturated with SWF.
So let's assume that the highest 7% of players are predominantly SWFs who experience a 30% kill rate, the lowest 7% has a 90% kill rate. If you extrapolate that trend and make a straight gradient of kill rates across all skill brackets, starting at 90% and ending at 30% If you add that all together and average, you get a global kill rate of about 58%.
So let's say our magical number is "a 58% kill rate". That sounds killer sided. But the reality is that even with a 58% global kill rate, the top 35% of players are experiencing a survivor sided state of the game with a kill rate of <50%, as low as 30% at the very top.
Not least, a 61% kill rate applied to any single game, is still representative of a 2K, you can't have a 2.2k game.
Furthermore, the state of the game is just not great, and not conductive to producing a meaningful kill rate. Killers are tunnelling and camping more, inflating kill rates. Survivors are giving up on hook more, inflating kill rates. The kill rates aren't indicative of how strong or weak killers or survivors are, they're merely an indication of how often survivors are being, or allowing themselves to be, killed.
Just as survivor MMR being based purely on escapes is a poor judge of skill, so too is this 61% kill rate a poor judge of the state of the game.
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