META Lies
'DEVS: Shaking up Meta Problem: Dead Hard is still META. You're so full of ######### BHVR
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True, but consider:
- Though it is still meta, its use rate is less than half what it was
- It's not cheap af anymore, not terribly strong
Also, BHVR can try to shake the meta up, but ultimately it's the players who dictate what it is
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I can only speak anecdotally but I have found the usage of Dead Hard against me as a killer is down a considerable amount. It was not uncommon for game after game after game to have 3-4 DHs in them. DH is still in use in my games once in a while but it is not nearly as prevalent as it used to be and it is not NEARLY as frustrating as Old DH was to go against.
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hey calm down a bit, they definitely shook it up, no ones running bt, no ones running decisive,
self care is only meta in eastern servers
more people are exploring different builds
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Dead Hard is actually one of the few perks that changed its meta while still being the same perk icon. Instead of just shifting the usages around like DS/IW merging to OTR, giving BT basekit, trading gen slowdown perks for gen kick perks, and most of the other changes that didn't address the root causes of the issues, Dead Hard actually did.
They removed the lose/lose situation usage, and converted it from a "press x to correct mistake" to a "press x at the right time to slap the killer's hit away and assert dominance over their blade wipe while gaining distance as a reward." It went from a dodge to a parry in terms of its function, and raised both the skill floor and ceiling to boot. It requires more skill, has more direct interaction, more counterplay potential and more mindgame potential all at once. The animation/icon/name might be recycled, but everything else about it is wildly different. The only reason its still meta is because good players learned how to adapt (just like most meta changes,) but it was one that directly tackled why DH used to be meta (and most importantly, didn't replace that with the same issue elsewhere)
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Still BS second chance
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The past 6 game that i have played they all ran dh, unbreakable and adrenaline on OP maps
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Why is it BS when it requires reads more than reactions? the only time you can use it on reaction is when a killer lunges from downtown, or a ranged attack has enough travel time to do so. that only leaves a 0.25 second window (+/- depending on latency) to time its short 0.5 second duration. You can also actually bait this one, since they don't gain distance if you miss: just swing in a way that misses, and you only lose distance from the whiffed swing.
It is extremely strong in very specific situations, but they involve committing to an option so hard your opponent is forced to guess what you chose. Its the exact concept behind mindgames but consolidated and compressed into a single interaction.
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unbreakable is literally going to be base kit, that's not a meta perk, dead hard is counterable, I'll give you adrenaline, and if it happened the 5 times, don't you think you could've brought a map offering the 6th time, instead of complaining about it? you'd think you'd learn by the 6th time, but it just seems you're using that as a number for favors, you don't try to counter or put any effort into making your own life easier, you put all that pressure on the devs to do it for you.
and like many people have said, it's truly up to the players to decide the meta, self-care is the worst perk in the entire game, yet Asia-pacific servers have it as the #1 most used perk in the game. also isn't there only 1 "op" map, Gideon's meat plant? like there aren't many maps that I would consider "OP" besides Gideons, are you telling me they took you to Gideons 6 times? lot of holes in your story, kind of get the impression you're not really telling the truth
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To be fair, being required to take a map offering (or the counter offering) should never be required to have an acceptable experience in terms of maps. Many of them are very clearly skewed in either favor, and in all honesty map offerings should pretty much only be for killers whos powers/loadouts need specific types of maps (aka indoor vs outdoor.)
People bringing RPD and Game offerings every single time shouldn't force the killer to give up their offering slot just for a chance at a more balanced map.
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to be fair, it's not really is it
if you've gone to the same exact map 6 times, what do you think you should do at that point, should you
A. Put on a sacrificial ward
B. Bring a map offering
C. Deal with it, you're a humble killer anyways
D. Go to the forums to complain
when there are counters specifically to make it so survivors can't do this, already in place, there is no reason anything needs to be changed especially the sacrificial ward, which is literally the direct counter to being sent to the same realm 6 times, I mean seriously, it's right there.
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you're implying there can't be an
E. devs actually fix map imbalances
since this is the official forums where that type of feedback is taken. the entire point of starting a point with "to be fair" is saying that while not agreeing with the person directly, their logic is not necessarily flawed. While your posit that them complaining will not directly fix the issue is likely true, for all you know it could very well be the account that a dev takes to their team lead to use as a case example of an issue they've been trying to explain. Survivors have 4 chances to use map offerings per match, which means that killer can either use their one slot to attempt to win out, or use their one slot to use a nullification offering: all assuming they have a spare stockpile of either type. You can't do that every single game because they are consumable.
Does it make a solution to not running into it a 6th time in a row? sure. Does it fix the underlying problem? absolutely not.
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wasn't this whole thing about the meta, not the map changes, tbh I just brought it up because they're clearly lying, you hear that same old line every day here, they clearly just said "The past 6 games they all ran DH, unbreakable and adrenaline on OP maps" purely for dramatic effect"
that's not an underlying issue, the guy was blowing smoke, I took their statement to an all-time seriousness, mocking the fact that it happened 6 times to them, and they did nothing to stop it, because yeah, no that does not happen. Do you genuinely believe their claim that they brought rpd and game offerings 6 times in a row, AND all had adrenaline, unbreakable, and DH SPECIFICALLY, not to mention all these being separate groups? it's a foolish statement, and I wasn't taking it seriously
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Better than being full of embarrassing rhetoric and childish behavior.
M-Rated game, everybody!
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Excellent description of Dead Hard. "Mindgames but consolidated and compressed into a single interaction."
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Map offering should be used by no one not killer or survivor.
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For specific maps? agreed 100%. I think they should exist for weighting indoor or outdoor maps though, due to specific builds kinda requiring one or the other.
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Map offerings can for sure be very frustrating, do you main a particular killer or do you play different ones?
While six times in a row seems a little insane, I will say I had autohavens three times in a row last night..so who knows…
anywho ..while larger maps are obviously harder for a killer, I will say I’ve learned that sometimes you (yes you as the killer) just don’t do well on certain maps. And it’s actually your skill there and not whether it favors either party. I mean this in no cruel way, I’ve had to learn and adapt myself. There are maps I am dog water on and my boyfriend can go to the same map, as the same killer and destroy swfs.
i main Trapper, so no matter how much I hate a map, I’ve learned which area is useful to trap out and it becomes gg’s no matter the map. That being said, if some maps were to disappear forever, I would not complain a bit. Also if I already see a bunch of high level prestige’s in my lobby (that are def swfs) I bring an offering to cancel any map offerings, at least skews their plan a little.
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Man, you aren't wrong. It's all Deadlock, Pain Res, DMS, and Eruption. I'm so glad they shook up the meta! WOW!
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Your experience is not mine. it is also frustrating when you're in games with blatant and subtle hacks running these perks. Fractured cowshed 3x disturbed ward 2x and meat plant with low tier ######### killer. 3 were map offerings.
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pressing a button for a second chance in mid chase is not what i would call skill. it still extends chases to other tiles. they removed the lose/lose? it is still lose/lose if they know how to use it and still problematic majority of the time. old dh and rencent do the exact same thing, extend chases, it is just less annoying.
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I actually rarely play killer for a variety of reasons unfortauntely, but I do still give it a shot now and then
especially when i get like 40 dailies in a rowbut I've generally stuck to weaker(ish) killers like wraith/pig/plague/artist/etc due to not putting in the work to get good with better/more difficult ones like nurse and blight. Since i barely play the role, I just don't have it in me to trial by fire learn all their nuances while putting up with the toxicity that comes from people seeing them.My main issue is just that certain maps are very disadvantageous for certain killers (while some are admittedly advantageous for some as well) which is why I just never liked map offerings in general. I do like the idea of builds that are centered around a type of map though, which is why i wish it was disambiguated to indoor vs outdoor, mostly just so killers can avoid maps that are pretty much free wins against them due to their loadouts or overall map synergy. Artist's power feels kinda useless a lot somewhere like the game compared to even a map like mother's dwelling, while scratched mirror myers is the exact opposite. After all of the ways this has been exploited in the past with survivors being able to identify who the killer is in the lobby, its always felt like something thats needed an update due to the way current offerings were/are abused.
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Parrying in Street Fighter 3 is done by tapping forward. In souls games its a single tap of a shoulder button. You don't need to have massive mechanical requirements for something to be skill oriented if the skill required is technical and mental more than mechanical. The lose/lose is gone because there will always be a gap between the dead hard and a pallet drop, and that window also includes the potential to trade. As killer you can also lunge to bait it, aim over their head so that they are not within the auto-interact cone emitted during the lunge, then block the pallet from their side before they can put it down as youre finishing/recovering from the lunge. It isn't lose/lose, just in their favor: massive difference.
They also don't do the same thing, as again, it went from a dodge to a parry. It does not gain any distance unless it is used in a direct interaction, which was not the case when it gained distance from just being used. The distance needs to be earned, which is the big thing you're ignoring. It does indeed still extend chases just like all exhaustion perks, which is exactly why it still has the same limitation as them of said exhaustion effect.
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it's still possible to bait it out, you're saying if they know how to use it DIRECTLY after saying it takes no skill to use it, which is very contradictory you can't be both mad at it for being lazy, as well as being uncounterable because people are skilled with it. tilt your head up, do a sudden movement, there are a lot of ways to bait it out, they will have to use it eventually, or you will have to swing, it's entirely possible, I do it a lot, and if someone gets a good DH yknow what I do? I give them props because I know I sure as hell can't do that
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My original post got removed twice so i stopped caring but comparing dbd to a fighting game is stupidity
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I would be happy to see it removed from the game entirely, but to say it hasn't been affected by the meta is simply untrue.
Before, as Killer, I could expect to see two or more Dead Hards in EVERY SINGLE GAME. I had to assume every single person I chased had it, and most did, and it got them way too many free escapes to pallets and windows.
I think I've eaten maybe 10 or 12 such Dead Hards since the change over.
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Why, exactly? I'm not comparing their structure or even their balance, I was giving a very concrete example of why mechanical skill is not the only type of skill. I thought it was particularly fitting considering fighting games have very long and precise strings that can have timings that require 1/60th of a second accuracy, yet the simple action of tapping the forward button is considered one of the most skilled aspects of the entire game. Likewise with parrying in games like dark souls, especially considering how notorious they are for latency.
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