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Shaking the survivor meta by... making it basekit!!!
Anyone else thinking gosh BHVR what the heck?
Comments
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I disagree with basekit Unbreakable, but basekit BT is a good thing (except it should not extend to end game). Basekit DS would be great too!
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Shaking up the meta tho, by introducing it as basekit?
What is left now...
Unbreakable, tick
BT, tick
DS, ....
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Ten seconds of basekit BT is too strong. The devs addressed the survivor's gripe that there is too much tunneling but did not address the killer gripe that gens go too fast. Base kit corrupt should have been given to the killer. And then you could change Corrupt Intervention to be a "mid game" lock out perk that triggers after a new set of conditions.
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I think what they've added have been good ideas so far. Even the unbreakable. I think most people on this forum have been conditioned to like a bad game.
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I think making UB basekit is absurd, but again, am I suprised at this point? Not really...
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It’s funny cause almost a year ago I suggested UB should be base kit to stop slugging and kind of fix the meta. Who would have thought that it would actually happen.
It’s fine I’m ok with it being base kit I’m not ok with unbreakable it should be nerfed to 50% so it’s not so op getting up in 22.5 seconds.
I honestly wouldn’t mind DS being base but it would have to rework a lot about the perk and mechanics
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I think basekit unbreakable is a great idea, I don't know how often the killer slugs for the 4 k and you just sit there for 5 minutes doing nothing while you bleed out, at least I will get hooked now and don't have to sit around so long until i bleed out... However I agree they should look at the time it takes to get yourself up with unbreakable, 22 seconds is a bit too much...
The basekit bt was also a great change even though I think it would have been better if the survivor just lost collision for a certain amount of time so he cannot bodyblock the killer into hitting him, but this variation is fine as well. 5 seconds was sometimes just a little too short to reach a tile...
Honestly making perks basekit is a good idea at some points just because there too many unfun things in the game that need to be taken care of in a way that does not rely on somebody running one specific perk... Perks should just make certain things easier or open up a different way to interact with the killer and not just be the only way to do something in certain point in time.
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Basekit BT was a very healthy change for the game. However making more perks base kit is really not a good idea. If you want to benefit from a perk you have to equip it. That's how it works. Base kit Unbreakable and the Mori changes should not go to live like this.
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I'm not convinced the baseline 45 second self pick up will be an issue. Unbreakable itself might need to have its 100% bonus turned down but otherwise for most games that 45 seconds isn't going to change much one way or another.
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the 45s unbreakable isnt going to do anything in 95% of your games. when the hell do you need to slug someone for 45s anyway? as for basekit bt, just dont tunnel its that simple.
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Basekit unbreakable has several situations in which the killer will be in a 100% lose v lose scenario that make it unfair. The perk by itself as it currently stands, is probably one of the most balanced in the game.
For starters, if you down someone at a pallet and you know another survivor is nearby you need to chase them off first before you can pick up. If that survivor manages to stall you for even 20 seconds, that survivor is getting up resulting in you having to restart chase all over again. Survivors being very aggressive and greedy can get rewarded very easily for doing so. This instance also applies to flashlight saves. If you know someone is trying to go for a save, you have to slug and pressure the rescuer away. If you can't do so in a short amount of time the person gets up and chase restarts.
Now lets look at the EXTREME case scenarios. Sabo Squads. Strong Map offering, Hook offering, Boil Over, Breakout, etc. Getting a hook is already going to be really hard. In some cases you have to slug because you simply cannot get to a hook. It may even turn into a full slug fest where you are constantly downing people because there are no available hooks. For killers like Hag, Twins, etc who need to slug for extra pressure because their gen defense and chase already lack a lot in pressure, they're going to get even weaker.
Basekit Unbreakable shouldn't be a thing or the times need to be rebalanced. Or in better situations, the number of times a survivor can pick themselves up should be limited. Perhaps a survivor can only pick themselves up once per hook state? Giving at least two instances per match of self pick up, maybe three max. But even then that's already a lot of power. There are games where a single Unbreakable pick up has won an entire match on it's own.
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It's used exclusively for body blocking as well. We called all of this.
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Well you can say that Killer got Basekit Perks from the start... they see Gens, Hooks etc with aurareading.
They got pretty much buffed in every killer action recently, which you can say they got strength from perks who are part now basekit.
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Agree, want to address tunnelling - then make DS basekit
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This is just false lol. If someone goes down near a pallet and another survivor is close, how do you pick them up? If a survivor goes down in a dead zone and your only option is to slug, what do you do? Basekit unbreakable creates lose lose situations for the killer (which should never be the case). I truly believe that the only people who advocate for all of these second chase perks to become basekit are players who don't want to be in any danger at any point in the match. They just want to sit on gens and get easy escapes.
Also, basekit bt does not stop tunneling lol. I'm a Wesker main. If I chose to smack you as soon as you get off the hook, 2 charges later I've already caught up to you. Giving you free perks isn't the way to address these issues. If you want to reduce tunneling, make chases more appealing. How do you do that? 1. Make maps smaller/less safe. 2. Give survivors an objective that actually requires skill from all survivors. 3 people sitting on gens while 1 is in chase, isn't particularly engaging. Especially when 2-3 gens will pop right off the bat if they are playing efficiently.
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I don't know if they actually confirmed they are going to add unbreakable or the mori mechanic. seems the majority of people were against it.
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Base kit unbreakable doesn't make any sense and basekit endurance shouldn't trigger unless killer has been within "x" distance from the hook with no survivors nearby for over 30 seconds imo. At that point they should give rescuer endurance when he goes for unhook and then it's disabled after a survivor interacts with gate switch
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fair point honestly. fingers crossed bhvr comes up with a fix for that problem
basekit bt doesnt stop tunnelling but it makes it significantly less appealing. and everything you suggested would only make killers tunnel even more (like the 90s gens did). another thing, theres more to survivor than just doing generators. they have to make important decisions just like you do
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now its time for killer to get basekit perks (instead of t1 brutal bc omg thats so amazing like omg 0.3 seconds?!?!?!?!?! thats so GAMEBREAKINGLY OP compared to basekit bt), something like corrupt at near full strength. near full strength meta perk for better than full strength meta perk
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Making BT basekit was a huge mistake. Now everyone just demands every perk be made basekit now. I'm guessing it will end when survivors have 20 basekit perks.
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Basekit DS at 5 seconds and the perk could add another DS after second hook. One of the worst things BHVR did was nerf DS to three seconds.
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The problem with "90 second gens" is that they don't exist lol. The first 2-3 gens are typically done in less than that time if you are playing against survivors who can do their basic objective. You add in Prove Thyself, Hyperfocus/Stakeout, toolboxes, bnps etc, those "extra" 10 seconds are non-existent.
And no there really is much more to survivor than doing gens at any given time until 1 survivor is dead. For the first half of the game, it boils down to 1 survivor in chase, 3 survivors on gens. Meanwhile the killer has to be on full press mode at all times in order to keep up. A survivor's biggest challenge to be frank, is other survivors lol.
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Only problem is that if you get left to second stage, you basically don’t have a perk. Maybe make DS add the two seconds back to a base three-second stun? And also disable killer powers for 10 seconds (allowing a tunneled survivor to make distance against high mobility killers).
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You're viewing this in a twisted way, let me explain. Over the years whenever there was a problem in the game behaviour never changed the base mechanics, whenever there was a huge problem they created a perk for it, e.g.:
- Tunneling: DS
- Camping: Reassurance, Kinship(or whatever its called, the one that pauses the hook timer)
- and so on.
- Whenever they did this many people said maybe we shouldnt rely on having perks to solve crusial base issues with the game, and now when they are actually looking into it the right way, by not making it dependant on perks, people freakout about perks being basekit.
- It's not that we cry for perks as basekit, it's more like we want essential gameplay mechanics all the time instead of them being limited to perks so we can never try fun things... or being unable to do anything because you happen to not run a specific loadout.
- The game would be far more fun if perks were only a nuance but not a crucial change, because with perks having such a huge impact it oftentimes even as killer feels like you're not really playing the killer but the perkbuild...
- In summon: I think it's a great idea to have more core gameplay mechanics without the need to rely on perks for them to be accessable...
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Everyone who plays this game for 2000 hours knows where all the generators spawns are on every map.
Also you forget that survivors see each other on the ground/hook basekit.
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I didn't know the proposed change was 45 seconds; it doesn't sound like enough. Infectious Fright might activate after downing a Survivor so you go after the one that screams just to get a hit on them and, by the time you get back, the downed Survivor is already up. It should be a minute, at least.
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Just for reference the current system is a survivor can get themselves one-tap away from being revived in 30 seconds. So right now, if you down a survivor and chase someone else, another survivor could take 10-15 seconds to head over during the chase and revive that downed person when the 30 seconds elapse (or sooner). So in terms of total survivor time taken away from the gens in that scenario it's basically a wash between the two systems.
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On one hand it does... Cause then Survivors can use more perks more often
Also BHVR made the decision that the really strong stuff should be basekit
But then nerf strong Killer perks... makes one wonder
We'll have to grin and bear it until they decide to recode the game... which may or may not happen
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