So...why have y'all decided that buffing DS would make it..an offensive perk?
I've seen so many people saying that buffing the stun timer/making it usable on both hooks would make it an offense perk...I feel like y'all dont know how DS works.
It used to be a free stun for 60 seconds no matter what. This has not been the case for months and months?
If a survivor is trying to "FORCE DS" then they're a) not healing other people b) not doing gens c) literally not doing anything to progress the game in any way. If you're seeing that locker hop and being triggered by that into eating DS... That's on you? Let them locker hop and waste their time.
Y'all are wild. DS needs some really strong buffs so there is passive detterance and fear of DS so tunneling isnt as sad of an issue.
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Because when ds was at it's strongest survivors were actively using it offensively against the killer.
DS is a hard perk to buff because you make it just a bit too strong and survivors will be forcing killers to eat the stun.
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That was at a time where it had no deactivation conditions. That's it. Nobody is suggesting to remove those conditons
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The thing is a survivor try to force ds is still wasting your time. It really becomes a problem when your in a situation where you can't get around the ds survivor and have to hit them and you can't hook them so your not progressing your objective. Also it's not like you can deal with the survivor with ds and another survivor at the same time so even if they are following you around as long as they are in between you and your real target it's a problem not to mention if there running OTR it's 2 hits to get them out your way.
Oh and while your dealing with this mess 2 gens pop
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I agree, I think it should be buffed. It still takes up a perk slot, it can be used to get in the Killer's way but then just slug them, you can't do anything productive without deactivating it and, on M1 Killer's, I get very little usage from it as it usually takes the Killer more than 60 seconds to down me if I have OTR. It's weak at the amount and does nothing if not tunnelled. It needs a buff.
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Even after disabling on conspicuous actions, it was still used offensively
The thing is killers that hard tunnel are just going to do it anyways they dont care about DS they never have, instead what you get is killers that try not to tunnel getting hit with a DS and then tunneling because they already are getting punished for it.
I still dont think DS is the solution for the issue of tunneling, a better solution would be like 10 seconds of 100% invisibility, no blood scratchmarks sound or collision with the killler, that can be cancelled if you feel safe and want to heal, and like 4 seconds of aura read on the unhooker for the killer, and the same for the unhooked survivor on the killer. For the record I am aware that half of what I just described is basically a basekit Babysitter with invisibility, but I think that would do far more for tunnelling than DS ever would and there is pretty much no way that could be used offensively against the killer, it is purely anti tunnel protection.
Edit: It would probably need to get downgraded to just the basekit borrowed time in endgame.
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These comments sound suspiciously close to the ones that said that Off The Record was going to be on every single game and it would create the role of tanks and would destroy the game because people would run around with 80 seconds of invulnerability, entirely disregarding that for those 80 seconds you'd have one less player in the game if they wanted to take advantage of the full effect of the perk, and the fact that a single stabby stabby immediately gets rid of it and puts them into mending.
I honest to God don't see how someone who doesn't tunnel has to worry about DS when it already disables in the end game or when you literally do anything beyond just existing. It's an even worse version of Off The Record because you can just stab them and leave them on the floor and that means one less player on the match and two health bars to heal for them to reset.
I have only seen DS used "offensively" once and that person was dead 10 seconds later. I honest to God think people are pretending that the problem would be bigger than it actually would be.
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Have you considered... going after one of the people doing the gens and not tunneling the person from the hook with two protection abilities that turn off the second they do ANYTHING to help progress the game for survivors?
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Why would I do that when they are unhooking right in front of me? But sure I'll ignore my objective right in front of me and walk all they way across the map to hopefully find a survivor to chase.
I could of also seen the unhooker coming and you know tried to go after them but they went for the unhook anyway or is the killer supposed to ignore half the team just because?
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OTR isn't ran every game because of the endurance no longer stacking. If endurance could be stacked like it was on the ptb it was going to be a common perk.
Even with deactivation requirements, if you make the stun time too long it will be used aggressively. That's why it's tricky to buff since there's not really anything else you could buff that would really help ds.
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Please tell me how can you use it aggressively. You cannot force DS.
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yup
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Uhhh,yeah still please tell me how you can force the killer to eat your DS
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You don't use DS to force the killer to eat it but to be save/not hookable after you agressively blocked the killer from getting progress on another survivor.
Hook states are the only irretrievable progress a killer can make like survivor with finished gens. By aggressively bodyblocking for another survivor and afterwards being save from getting hooks you use DS as a shield/weapon to deny the killer. Not as a safety to not get tunneled.
Just like people that bodyblock with BT, then get focused and cry "TUNNELER" after intentionally taking the aggro, forgetting potential consequences and asking for intentional bad plays from the killer under the guise of otherwise ruining their "fun".
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And she got banned. Next.
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she*
Gonna be honest, I have never seen anyone say that DS would be used offensively if it got its 5 seconds back.
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it was used very offensively just like new base kit bt/off the record. People were trying to get your attention as you were chasing someone else and then they hopped in a locker to force the stun.
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Yeah, but like... all you had to do was use a little common sense and you got free pressure out of it. Someone's too eager to be chased while injured? They have a protection perk and you don't want to chase them. If they're bodyblocking you, smack and continue with the original plan. Nine times outta ten, I could tell who was baiting me, slap them, and move on. I only ever really got surprised by DS when it was someone I found on a map prop or someone who ran off and I found again 40 seconds later, and hey, that 40 seconds of no conspicuous actions is far from a loss to me.
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I mean, yeah, but current DS is practically worthless as it is now. Besides, the main part of DS people had an issue with, the invincibility in the end-game, is gone. I'd take people wasting time trying to bait a DS over DS being nothing more than a prodding stick against tunnelers.
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The issue I see with that argument, though, is that there is very simple counter play; ignore them. When I'm playing Killer and see a Survivor trying to get my attention I assume there's a reason and ignore them. Why would I waste my time chasing a good looper in a strong tile while their team does gens?
It's the same thing if I'm chasing somebody and the last person I hooked gets in my way. If I can't ignore them I slug them and go back to my chase. That way I know at least two, usually 3, and, if the survivors are uncoordinated, all 4 are not on gens.
For that matter, I'll sometimes just smack the unhooked person if they stick right by me not to tunnel them but just to force them to mend before they heal.
I'm quite happy to leave a recently unhooked survivor slugged or let them sit in a locker; they're not doing gens and require another survivor to get off gens to pick them up if slugged. Overall, handling it that way just seems like its a net time loss for the survivors.
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Because we are about to enter a world where every survivor gets unbreakable for free. Thereby meaning that survivors will once again be able to use it offensively.
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Dear god, you're right. 😨
...Though I think that's more of an argument for why infinite Unbreakable is a really friggin' stupid idea more than it is an argument that DS doesn't need a buff. I pray that never makes it to live.
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Think this through. You're complaining that they have these defenses. These defenses that do not come into play if you proceed to your actual objective: Preventing escapes. While you're messing with the two people that are likely both injured by the time of the unhook, you are letting the other two work on generators. This is why BBQ was such a healthy perk for the game, it promoted gameplay that was both more fun and more skillful.
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Picture this. Killer hooks survivor A. They leave the hook and chase survivor B while A gets unhooked. Instead of working on a gen A runs up to the killer. Killer ignores A and focuses on B. They don't tunnel. This means A might not get use their DS. But A can't have that. Instead they bodyblock for B. The killer now has to deal with a survivor that cannot be hooked (still 40s of DS left). They have to slug A. Can you guess what other perk A is running? It's Unbreakable! These 2 perks make A basically invincible for 60s. Besides these things A could also run up to the killer, start harassing them and jump in a locker when the they get closer. It puts the killer in a lose-lose situation if they decide they don't want to tunnel. The same thing happens with OTR right now.
Defensive perks are used in aggressive ways and that is why they don't prevent tunneling in the slightest. They highly incentivise tunneling instead. Don't want to get punished by DS and OTR too hard? Tunnel.
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