http://dbd.game/killswitch
Add incentives for not tunnelling
BHVR has only attempted to reduce tunnelling through deterrents such as Borrowed Time and DS but it's clear that deterrents aren't fully effective as people were still tunnelling in the old BT and DS meta, which was a massive deterrent to tunnelling. People tunnel because it's objectively the best play. Compared to hooking everyone once to killing a person, killing a person will be significantly better as it reduces gen speeds by ~25% and prevents other actions such as healing and unhooking. Asking a killer to not tunnel is like asking them to intentionally play worse. BHVR should add an incentive for not tunnelling that helps killers win so that killers actually consider not tunnelling as a comparable option for winning so that they don't need to tunnel to win. An example would be if the killer hooks all 4 survivors (like Grim Embrace), gen speeds are reduced by 10% for the rest of the game. This would give a similar effect to killing a survivor, which would reduce gen speeds by ~25%.
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I agree with you, although a lot of thought needs to be given to the numbers, methods, etc.
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If the developers actually wanted to stop tunneling, they could fix it over night. I think the problem is the community sees it as something that is bad for the game, but the developers don't. They have made several statements along the lines of it being a "strategy".
They could do something as simple as having players gain no pips if someone is killed and they are the only hook stages in the game. Or have BBQ and chili be baseline and have it also get turned off if someone is tunneled. So at least while you are going against a killer who is climbing ranks, you won't get tunneled. And if you go against a killer who is farming BP, you won't get tunneled.
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The thing is, that splitting pressure across all 4 survivors is technically viable. The only downside is that the Killer needs to be able to consistently down survivors in a timely manner in order to apply any pressure at all. And this varies based on skill level, and items/perks/killers used.
Also IMO instead of creating methods that empower Killers for not tunneling, I'd rather see methods of empowering Survivors for when Killers tunnel. Things like being able to absorb hook states that others have to give them more time via some kind of ritual.
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Maybe balance the maps and gen speeds. Playing against sentient survivors, especially ones on comms and coordinating, is basically throwing the game if you just run around the map fresh hooking everyone. Most people don't like losing like that. It makes the game much easier for survivors to win hence why they make such a big deal out of it. 3 or 4 escape easy against killers that play like that lol
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the funny part is that survivor want you to play like that with every killer but if playing like that always make you lose as killer, then why would the killer play like that? Unless I am somehow rewarded on every hook where hooking different survivors makes me win somehow, there is not much incentive to not use those tactics to win.
I don't think the players that play killer are confident in winning every chase across all 4 survivors with good portion of the killer cast. Its technically possible but the effort required to win games as killer playing this way is like 3x effort and even then, a large majority of the cast is just too weak for any of killer gameplay to matter against strong survivors.
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This is something I've been saying for months. A killer's best option should not be to tunnel or camp. We need incentives for playing in a different way and ways to make tunneling and camping less accessible.
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"They could do something as simple as having players gain no pips if someone is killed and they are the only hook stages in the game."
They don't do that because survivors could troll killers into depipping by throwing themselves at the killer. Also, killers could also accidentally tunnel if they aren't paying attention to who they hooked last. It has happened to Otz countless times when he gets DSed unexpectedly. Survivors can also all play the same survivor with the same outfit to make it difficult for the killer to identify the survivors, increasing the odds of accidental tunnelling occurring.
"The thing is, that splitting pressure across all 4 survivors is technically viable. The only downside is that the Killer needs to be able to consistently down survivors in a timely manner in order to apply any pressure at all. And this varies based on skill level, and items/perks/killers used."
It largely depends on the killer. High mobility killers like Nurse and Blight can achieve this but weak killers with no mobility like Myers and Trapper can't.
"Also IMO instead of creating methods that empower Killers for not tunneling, I'd rather see methods of empowering Survivors for when Killers tunnel. Things like being able to absorb hook states that others have to give them more time via some kind of ritual."
They've already done that. It's called Borrowed Time and DS. I also disagree with this approach because killers will still try to tunnel but they will try to play around the anti-tunnel perks, e.g. waiting out BT and DS. It also doesn't address the fundamental reason killers tunnel in the first place, which is that it's necessary to beat strong teams and it's stronger than splitting your hooks.
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It's only stronger than splitting hooks (even with DS/BT) because Survivors are unable to utilize ~8ish or so hooks before someone gets killed and the game shifts to a 1v3 which fundamentally alters the gameplay by utilizing all survivors for the Hook altruism loop: 1Hooked/1Chased/1Rescuing/1
RepairingDeadI'd say experiment with seeing what happens if you give Survivors a communal pool of sacrifice states to eat through, but that seems a bit... too simplistic, with no need for survivors to interact with one another. (And ignores initial gameplay in which there are no survivors in a chase and all 4 could be on a gen)
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the perk your suggesting already exist, except they're weaker with drawbacks. Gift of pain gives 16% repair penalty when hooking a survivor on scourge hook. It has two drawbacks, the first is that the perk only works on one of the 4 unique hooks (adding rng to slowdown) and second is that survivor must heal. The other is dying light. dying light has 4 drawbacks. First the obsession is immune to the effects. The second is that perk turns off when obsession dies. The obsession gains 33% increase in altruistic actions. The bonus is 3% per hook. you need 4 hooks to get to 12% bonus, slightly more then your recommend 10%. The drawbacks of these perks are too high for anyone to use them. Remove all drawbacks of these perks and perhaps killer will reconsider these perks in their perk load out.
It also doesn't address the fundamental reason killers tunnel in the first place, which is that it's necessary to beat strong teams and it's stronger than splitting your hooks.
as long as killer win more by tunneling over using these perks, there is no reason for killer to change their gameplay. if you make killer lose while tunneling and these perk make you win more by not tunneling, then something might change.
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I think you're misunderstanding my suggestion. I am suggesting adding base kit changes not perks that help when not tunnelling. You're right when you say that there's no reason to run these perks when killers could just tunnel. That's why base kit changes are necessary.
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your missing my point. Killer can make dying light and SC: gift of pain base-kit in their loadout but why should they? Those perks suck because of their drawbacks and there is no reason for killer to run them over tunnel. not tunneling and just going for hooks randomly is actively detrimental. I could make less detrimental by running these perks, but what the point. they will not make a difference in my chances of winning. what does make a difference is tunneling and killing survivors out of the game. survivors each have 100% repair efficiency and there are 4 survivors. this means that survivors have collection amount of 400% repair efficiency, but 100% of repair efficiency is lost by the killer chasing a single survivor.
when a survivor dies, the survivor team loses -100% repair efficiency and -100% healing efficiency. so for me to not tunnel, I would need a perk that grants -100% repair efficiency and -100% heal efficiency. closest perk to that was thantophobia. At 22% when all 4 survivors were injured, each survivor injured 22% repair, so collectively, among 3 survivors, you incured 66% repair efficiency(88% in total). Not exactly -1 player but 3/4 of a player lost in term of repairing generators. Obviously, keeping 4 survivors injured is near impossible task so the number are way lower in practice due to up time. To reduce counter-play so that killer still get rewards, at one point the perk affected healing speed so the killer could use it to sloppy butcher to have 24-36% healing efficiency loss which is collectively ranged from 24%-144% -healing penalty out of the 400%(300%) healing speed. anyhow people bitched about forever builds and hit & run play-styles(spread pressure gameplay), so clearly people want killer to tunnel. Not the killer's problem.
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Killers like Otz tunnel because it is necessary when you play good people. The killer gets penalized for killing a survivor by a hook getting removed. Imagine if hooking a survivor that was not the survivor you hooked last gave you a dying light penalty to the survivors.
The killer gets no reward for hooking survivors unless that person gets killed. Likewise repairing a full gen is the goal not a partial generator. If a gen gets to 33% and is reset then all the progress is lost. Why would a killer NOT hook one person three times? Survivors do not get gens to 33% and then go to another generator.
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