Why aren’t the devs realizing that no one wants to play against nurse
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I also still have yet to find a true Scotsman.
At the risk of ruining the joke:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman0 -
Ironic you replied only to me with that, and not to them as well
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Fair, I hadn't seen theirs, but it too is the same fallacy. That said, not much point countering fallacies with the same.
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True, but I honestly can't be arsed anymore to argue with someone who thinks that nurse in the current state is balanced and *needs* add-ons to be playable
So I'll just throw some sarcasm here and there and leave
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How about someone who thinks she is balanced in her current state due to the state of the game itself? She certainly doesn't need addons to be playable, but it is fair to say that there can be loadouts stacked in a way that they can severely dampen even her potential without addons, especially if they have the skill to go with it.
Edit: At least in my opinion, of course.
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Still can't be arsed, because if I'm reading this correctly (and forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth), nurse being considered balanced because of the mild chance of getting a comp level swf that might give her a challenge isn't an argument either.
Average nurses with stomping builds are a lot more frequent than that, and average nurses with stomping builds can beat teams who's skill would let them destroy most other killers even while playing perk less (which is a definition of imbalance)
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My argument is that the game itself is unbalanced to hell, and it doesn't take comp tier anything to have a viable chance against a killer with no addons, even nurse. All it takes is a relative skill coefficient that offsets her advantages over the average gameplay loop, with her own skill coefficient being an opposing variable (which then pairs with the advantages stacked by her opponents.) I just personally believe that she as a character (and especially when disregarding her addons) does not push into an unrealistic advantage that surpasses the advantages that can be stacked against her, nor the skill of her opponents (especially when combined.)
The nurse as an extreme coefficient is no different than SWF: abusable and exploitable, but only as potent as the people maximizing on that potential. And since her skill coefficient isn't linear, there are increasing returns specifically on the higher end of her growth: what type of "average" you apply to her is going to change the relation quite a bit.
apologies for various clarification edits
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Just had to add, the last 2 Nurses I have played against both DC'd lol
First one on the Asylum map because 3 of us were going to escape, second one on RPD which I am more sympathetic to as it is a rough map for killer and especially Nurse.
The reality is, most people playing Nurse are average to bad, the god tier Nurses are very rare but I do understand they are not much fun to go against but I rarely see truly great Nurses
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I like playing against Nurse. It's harder to juke her, but if you are in the right spot for it, you can lead her on for the full 5 gens. In fact, I did almost exactly that just 2 weeks ago. Saved screenshots of the scoreboard for funs :) I was playing on Gold 1. One really long chase at the start for 3 gens, then she largely ignored me and went for the rest. The game went on for quite a while because we had a moderate 3-gen going on. I think it was a fun game for everyone in the end.
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I said this months and months ago.
Nurse is a terrible, UNFUN design.
She breaks one of the core mechanics of the game - the "Chase" aspect of a survivor running from a killer.
The Doctor is another design I don't think is fun, but I will play against him.
But Nurse? I'd have nixed that design as soon as someone proposed it
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you played a bad nurse.
a good nurse, you will never run for 5 gens okay.
this is the issue with discussing these things. people will play bad killers in their low MMR games and come to different conclusions that are entirely wrong.
go up against a good Nurse and you won't last 5 gens, I promise.
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But good nurses are so few and far between. If good nurses were a majority, then her kill rate wouldn't be so low.
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They are not few and far between at high MMR. Most Nurses you face there have enough knowledge of the character that her broken mechanics allow easy wins.
There are so many players at low MMR. That is why her kill rate is low.
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My main issue with nurse is how she has a choke hold on perk balance. Like with AA being too strong on “certain killers”. Because of the nerf nurse is now one of the few killers who can actually make use of it
It stifles perk variety when 1 killer holds many perk ideas back because she is too strong thus hurting the killer who could make good use of them
Nurse’s issues go beyond just her
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Yep she was literally made to counter infinites back in the older years
Her power has been nerfed repeatedly yes but if she can still go through a walls for a hit she’ll be the best killer in the game without question
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She's been Number 1 at high MMR, but since most players are on the lower end of that, her kill rate is the worst out of all the killers. I think that's why they've been hesitant to change her so far.
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I mean your opinions are usually biased too. If the post is suggesting a net positive to survivors, you agree. If it's anything remotely negative to or about survivor, then you disagree.
"some opinions are biased" no, all opinions are biased. It's impossible to get an unbiased opinion, because humans by nature are all inherently biased.
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no, it's not impossible. some people are fair and consider both sides. like me.
I prioritize FUN for both sides when I pitch my ideas. Because that is the ultimate goal of game design, for everyone playing to be having a fun, competitive time.
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BHVR just nerf Nurse already.
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Spoken like someone who doesn’t use Nurse
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I would just like to point out that at the top 5% of MMR Nurse isn't even in the top 5 of Killers and she has a low overall kill rate. She is counterable and Wesker is actually more dangerous.
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Those stats aren't really official though are they. Are they pulled from the servers across every single game played? If not, then they're pulled from self-submission reports on a 3rd party website, by the few players who even bother to go to that website and upload photos. And they don't do that for every game anyway.
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They're the BHVR stats so they are all the games played in September where there were no DCs (which would throw off the data if games with DCs were included since nobody can say if those games were winnable or not before the DC).
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This type of argument is exactly why the devs say not to use these stats in discussions about balance. People will always use them to support or dismiss each other's opinions operating under the assumption they represent concrete fact. Neither of you are wrong, but neither of you are right basically.
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DC's should count. A lot of people DC when they get first downed by a Nurse, for example.
Not including DC's... is wrong
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I disagree because the main reason people lost is because someone DCed. I've had multiple games where someone DCed early but we still got to either 1 gen left, all gens done to 1 to 3 escapes. Some of those games were wins and the others would probably have been wins if the DCer had just stuck around.
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I do think they should be used to dismiss incredibly hyperbolic comments such as 'Nurse has no counterplay' or, on the other side, 'DbD is completely survivor sided!'. While I can't draw really specific conclusions from the data it definitely shows that there is a lot more nuance than what the one-sided opinions suggest.
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ROFL you are a funny guy. Good one, really good one :D
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While those are fair things to discredit, the statistics are not concrete enough to be used as evidence to do so. They are unfortunately prime candidates for both confirmation and outcome bias due to their incomplete nature. For the record I agree with you that nurse has counterplay, but like you surmised, the opposing argument can't really use them either. They just kind of exist as a sort of logic trap in their unfinished state.
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Aww imagine thinking you know someone. I play both sides 50/50 and I have given plenty of feedback regarding both sides. I don't agree with everything that is suggested for survivors that would benefit them. Same with killers. Must have struck a nerve, since I don't remember who you are. 😉
Also, you forgot to add "Some opinions are biased to the side you prefer"... enough with the twisting of words and actually read the whole sentence before you start to look foolish.
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As much as SWF may be hated, I don't think removing SWF from the game would be a smart decision from a financial standpoint. But giving solo queue survivors more information on what their teammates are doing would be the best bet on what should come next. Also reworking Nurse is already happening, nobody knows when though.
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What counterplay? hoping she misses a blink? lol
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Let’s be honest here. Some people will complain about anything and then when they get what they want the goalposts will move on to something else. Have seen it time and again and it’s kinda sad to be honest. IMO I would stop and look at both sides of the player base before buffing or nerfing anything.
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Anyone can just claim they play both sides 50/50, pretty much see almost everyone do that. Most of the feedback you give is mostly in favor of survivors, which isn't a bad thing, but I'm just saying you're as equally as biased. Also you didn't strike any nerve, I just remember your name more clearly since you're pretty active on the forums. I mean you have 6164 posts on here. You don't know who I am because I am not nearly as active as you are. It's not that complex, really.
I seem to have struck a nerve though. Sorry, I'll try to word myself better so I don't upset your feelings next time.
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I don’t get upset at someone who I do not even remember. My time is more important than that.
Also, just because you seem to see me responding to what would positively impact survivors in a good way does not mean that I haven’t done the same for opinions about what would benefit killers.
You can go and actually read all my posts if you are that bothered.
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You clearly are, you got super defensive all because I said your opinions were biased too, and started going off topic about how I'm supposedly upset about something you said(?)
Yes, but the former is much more frequent.
No, I'm not gonna read all your posts, I'm just saying that you are biased towards one side over the other. I mean everyone is. There is no such thing as not being biased towards one side. That's impossible unless you're an AI.
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I absolutely love going against nurse!
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I do agree hard to tell someone being 50/50 from their posts. Maybe their more vocal on one side? Which i feel i agree with him on the fact i do see you more on survivor posts. Im around the same for Killer. But 2 of my recent posts where about Unbreakable (Pushing toward Killer) and Reassurance (Survivor). It's hard to achieve that perfect balance to show you really are a 50/50.
On topic:As a killer i personally aint one to talk i don't enjoy playing her at all. Even if i can be effective with her. Just ignoring dbd itself isn't fun for me. She's amazing in power but such a bore.
As a survivor facing her? Depends on the nurse. If its a new one its boring because they just stun themselves 50 times. If its starstruck slug nurse then we all just die in 2 minutes. Those sweet spot nurses are very fun to play against (the nurses that don't hit every blink but come close and it feels like a mindgame every time).
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Well consider me un bothered about how much you think I am being biased simply because your perception is really just your opinion.
If you don’t want to bother reading my posts then stop saying I am biased. In fact stop labeling people simply because you think they only favor one side more than the other.
Its just not a good look.
Finally I will defend myself, especially when an unknown member of the forum who I have not interacted with claims they think they know me. Lmao
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By me saying I am 50/50 isn’t me saying I post 50% favoring survivors 50% favoring killers. I am simply stating that I play both sides thus my opinions change/shift and are usually biased depending on what it is the topic is about.
I am not counting how much I post about each side. That is ridiculous. Especially when topics tend to stay the same sometimes and who knows some days I might wanna post on survivor more and others on killer. I am not posting to appease the balance and appear as if I am for one of the other.
As far as Nurse is concerned I’ve already said my opinion.
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She is the most fun to verse.
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Of course. I was just sayin its very hard to give hard proof of being a 50/50 for anyone. I don't doubt you are one.
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Concur!
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