Nurse Nerf When?

I wouldn't argue SWF is fine at the moment so much as I would argue that there really isn't much BHVR can do about the strength of SWF since so much of that strength comes from simply having access to comms, and the ability to plan out what your entire team's bringing as opposed to what just you are bringing like in solo.

One idea I had one night to buff solo que to put it on-par with SWF, so they can even the scales even just a little bit, is to just.. Let survivors see their team's loadouts in the lobby. Now, I'm no code-brainer, but I imagine that wouldn't be ENTIRELY too difficult to implement, since at least one part of that loadout is already fully visible (items) and the rest is just some perk/offering icon UI.

As for Nurse,

I can't say her potential is "higher" than SWF, since I've witnessed firsthand some damn-brutal SWFing that made me literally unable to play the game as a fairly strong killer like Artist just by three people camping a pallet with top-tier flashlights, Any Means Necessary, etc., making it so I'm kinda just screwed no matter what I do, but what I can say,

EASILY the most needed nerf to Nurse is just to have blink attacks count as specials and not basics. It's... Honestly kinda baffling that they still haven't implemented that yet, seeing as even Blight's lethal rushes are counted as specials, and far, FAR weaker killers also have healthstate-dealing attacks that aren't M1s counted as specials despite, on paper and in practice, being pretty damn similar to an M1 (Pig's dash for example, AKA M1 with extra steps).

And also,

1. BHVR said themselves not to take the stats at face value
2. That's lowest kill rate in the game AT ALL MMR, meaning pablogonzales2004 who just installed the game yesterday and happened to pick nurse also contributes to that statistic, as do more experienced players who try nurse a couple times and go "Man, I'm just losing over and over and over, I'm just gonna not do this and stick to a killer I can land a single attack with".

Fair enough but in my defense, tone isn't the easiest to discern from straightforward text with basic punctuation and no indication of sarcasm beyond the idea being presented, which I have seen presented unironically.

You too, then! Pleasant interaction!

Please see

1. BHVR said themselves not to take the stats at face value

Okay? Trickle-down balancing, AKA a pretty widely applicable and, dare I say, "good" way to balance things, dictates that if things function off-kilter or too strongly at the highest possible level, then nerfing it will be fine for the lowest possible level that didn't even know you could do that.

And yes, I'm aware, even top-tier Nurse players struggle with gens and that Blight tends to have a lot more leniency anyways, I have seen Otz' video, you needn't clarify for me,

But I still fail to see how literally any of that means it's okay that Nurse can teleport to a healthy survivor and instantly down them with her 100% special attack "basic" attack should she use one of the seven trillion exposed perks in the game, and if she knows what she's doing, she probably will be.

'Trickle down balancing' is terrible for participation; all skill levels have to be considered. As an example, there's a certain other asymmetrical that tried it and has lost close to 95% of their player base.

If you want spectators as in competitive sports, sure, balance solely for the top. If you want participants and a thriving game community, consider all skill levels in balance.

And, besides, according to the kill rates for the top 5% MMR Nurse is fine. That's not the only factor BHVR takes into account but the kill rates aren't showing any issues.

Listen, I agree, on the whole, Nurse's mere existence isn't a problem. That's what you guys are failing to see, I LIKE Nurse.

But PLEASE, for the LOVE of GOD, explain to me why it's okay that post-blink hits are counted as basic attacks. Name a single reason that SHOULDN'T be a special attack. I IMPLORE you, and literally everybody on this forum, to paint me the numbers on that one.

Because Nurse isn't over performing in comparison to the other Killers. I personally don't care if they make Blink attacks a special attack or not but, if they do, that diminishes the argument for Nurse to be slower than survivors. If survivors just run in a straight line Nurse literally needs to use her power to make any hits. She doesn't have an option to basic attack in most circumstances which makes Exposed perks next to useless on her without Blinks.

So, which sounds better? A faster Nurse but Blink attacks are M2s or a Nurse whose Blink attacks are M1s but can't catch up to survivors without her power? I personally don't care either way but Nurse isn't over performing so I don't see any pressing reason to make changes when items such as solo queue status icons and help for Killers like Trapper are more needed.

Faster nurse with M2s, any day of the week. That way she CAN earn exposed downs, but actually has to earn them the good ole-fashioned way that every other killer has to earn them. I literally never argued Nurse should be slower than survivors. I never argued Nurse was particularly a problem outside of the highest highest levels of play, which is what I consider half-exposed-half-aura builds, whether they occur at "high MMR" or not (especially given that actual MMR is completely intangible to us as players anyways). Even if in effect it looks like the Nurse blinking in front of you to bodyblock, eating the fatigue in your face, then catching back up to M1 you, that's perfectly acceptable IMO.

ok

Okay, cool. I'm not saying you said Nurse should be slower than survivors but that's part of the reason why Nurse's attacks are considered M1s. There are a lot of threads about nerfing Nurse but a lot of them are just blanket nerf calls (in general, not specifically anyone) but very few consider both sides.

I just think the arguments for nerfing Nurse's blink attacks sound more reasonable and are more likely to be considered if people take into account why they exist and make suggestions as to how to change things. Personally, if I were a dev, I would take a post that's 'hey, I think is problematic but I know it's here for x reason. Here's a possible solution' more seriously than the calls for blanket nerfs.

I think she'd still be fun to play either way but I'm just mentioning it because most people, not you, but most who complain about Nurse just sound like they don't know how to counter Nurse or don't want to learn how. Saying it feels more fair if this happens but this is also given so it's fair to Nurse players strikes a different chord.

That's because all the noobs they try her out like 5 times fail at using her and then just throw her in the trash, and that inflates the info GREATLY

Hopefully they listen to the one trillion people begging for her to be nerfed, but I doubt it'll happen, all things considered.

again - sarcasm

winning games =/= using perks to rig the game from the start, at least, it shouldn't

I even dislike that in some scenarios, as Trapper, at any MMR, you can abuse the basement spawns and bushes on Dead Dawg for an instant 4k at 3-4 gens, solely by bringing a Dusty Noose and Agitation+Iron Grasp. Killers or survivors being able to predetermine the outcome of a match entirely with just perks or offerings is a bit... Eh. Doesn't feel good, kinda makes me think there's a little bit of a crack in the hull.

Also,

Cram it with the "oh, so you think you're the best player in the world" argument I see you using all over the damn place lmao, I'm literally not speaking about my own ability, or any other specific person's ability, nor should you, because it's completely irrelevant, and derailing is a silly, silly thing for silly, silly people who don't have a real point.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong

Realistically, average.

However, there are also a ton of reasons to balance around top players.

What I would personally do is balance around more experienced average level players.

No.

nerfing nurse straight away! the prophesy has been fulfilled.