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Definitive solution to bridge the SWF-Killer-Solos gaps
The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.
A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered), OR Survivors earn Kindred 2 as a passive skill and the @Ihatelife's icon system (see https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46961/change-for-the-solo-survivors-to-help-be-in-level-with-swf for further explanation);
B.) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left, AND the new totems' Aura colors (see the link written above);
C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.
While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 2/3/4 Survivors.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
Comments
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@Entità said:
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors leftWhen does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?
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NoShinyPony said:
@Entità said:
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors leftWhen does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?
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I'm sorry but I don't think buffing survivors this way closes the gap so much as widens it because it buffs SWFs even further. With this system, they no longer have to relay map information (Example - "The killer is over by me near (landmark)" vs "Killer's over here"(teabagging)). It's just a buff to another buff that has extremely limited counter play (nurse/hillbilly) in exchange for a perk that already has alot of counter play (cleanse a totem that's hidden on top of a hill in plain sight 90% of the time.
The only way to truly close the gap is to add in an opt-in, opt-out in games communication system (not proximity) and balance killers around that.1 -
@Entità said:
NoShinyPony said:@Entità said:
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left
When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?
Yes, when the last gen is fixed.
Did you know that long time ago NOED worked just like that? It was no hex. After the gens were done, the effect lasted for 2 minutes.
(Of course, it was a perk and no passive skill and it worked independent from how many survs were alive.)
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NoShinyPony said:
@Entità said:
NoShinyPony said:@Entità said:
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left
When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?
Yes, when the last gen is fixed.
Did you know that long time ago NOED worked just like that? It was no hex. After the gens were done, the effect lasted for 2 minutes.
(Of course, it was a perk and no passive skill and it worked independent from how many survs were alive.)
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After rereading your proposed changes, my core issue was with giving survivors kindred 3 as a passive skill.
Giving a buff to all survivors, buffs SWFs as well as Solos. It doesn't bridge the gap in my opinion.
That said, after re-reading the NOED change and passive for the killers...if enough survivor mains will agree to that exchange...we could try it out for science...as long as when they ask for it to be reverted the kindred gets reverted as well...
...and they will ask for it to be reverted...
(Evil laugh)
In all seriousness, your heart is in the right place. You're not giving buffs to just one side and not completely ignoring balance. I just don't think this is the way to go.1 -
16 meters are too much
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Master said:
16 meters are too much
The developers decided to punish the killer camping within 16 meters from the hook with an emblem points loss: I simply apply this criterion to the passive Kindred for survivors.Aside the range, do you agree with my proposal? If not, why? And how would you amend it?0 -
@Entità said:
The long-standing problem of Dead by Daylight, which keeps causing fierce battles within the Community, can be summarized in the formula "a well-organized team ridicules a good killer, a good killer pulverizes four solitary and uncoordinated survivors".The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.
MY PROPOSAL:
A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered);
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left;
C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.NEW KINDRED.
Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.
The Entity has given you the gift of telepathy, to communicate with your companions and increase the hopes for survival.
Start the trial with 3/4/5 Tokens.
Press the Active Ability button to consume a Token and leave a mark on the ground. The mark's Aura can be seen by all the Survivors for 20/25/30 seconds, but it's invisible to the Killer.
NEW NOED.
A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.
While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 1/2/all Survivors.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
This reform could both reduce the balance issue and guarantee a thrilling endgame for both parties.
So now the killer has NOED AND we can't drop pallets? LOL
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shyguyy said:
@Entità said:
The long-standing problem of Dead by Daylight, which keeps causing fierce battles within the Community, can be summarized in the formula "a well-organized team ridicules a good killer, a good killer pulverizes four solitary and uncoordinated survivors".The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.
MY PROPOSAL:
A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered);
the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left;
C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.NEW KINDRED.
Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.
The Entity has given you the gift of telepathy, to communicate with your companions and increase the hopes for survival.
Start the trial with 3/4/5 Tokens.
Press the Active Ability button to consume a Token and leave a mark on the ground. The mark's Aura can be seen by all the Survivors for 20/25/30 seconds, but it's invisible to the Killer.
NEW NOED.
A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.
While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 1/2/all Survivors.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
This reform could both reduce the balance issue and guarantee a thrilling endgame for both parties.
So now the killer has NOED AND we can't drop pallets? LOL
Killers need a buff against well organized teams, who mock the killer all the trial with eternal loops and flashlights during a reckless gen rush: the Exposed status triggers only with 4 or 3 survivors still alive in the end, and can be avoided by hiding until the timer ends, while the new NOED can be prevented by cleansing all the totems, like today.Solos also need a strong buff against the killer, because the lack of voice chat makes their coordination very poor.In other words, well organized teams are the top tier: killers and solo survivors need to be buffed to that level.Post edited by Entità on0 -
This reform is very urgent.Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.0
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I'd say that once dedicated servers are released, the game will differentiate between Solos and SWFs, solos will get passive buffs like Kindred and SWFs will get nothing to bridge the gap, then Killers can get universal buffs.0
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ChesterTheMolester said:I'd say that once dedicated servers are released, the game will differentiate between Solos and SWFs, solos will get passive buffs like Kindred and SWFs will get nothing to bridge the gap, then Killers can get universal buffs.SWF means voice chat: if they get Kindred, they get nothing. Kindred as a passive skill helps Solos against the Killer. The Exposed status as a passive skill in the endgame with 4 or 3 survivors still alive for 120/60 seconds helps the Killer against SWF (it's almost impossible 3 or 4 solos are alive when the last gen pops). There is no need to wait several months.0
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or we could just give solo's VC
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Entità said:This reform is very urgent.Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.
Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)0 -
Master said:Entità said:This reform is very urgent.Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.
Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then?@NuclearBurrito2 What?0 -
@Entità said:
Master said:
Entità said:This reform is very urgent.
Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.
Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.
Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.
The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.
Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)
Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then?
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
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NuclearBurrito2 said:
@Entità said:
Master said:
Entità said:This reform is very urgent.
Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.
Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.
Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.
The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.
Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)
Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then?
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help.1 -
@Ihatelife I rewrote the OP to merge your and my proposals. I'd appreciate your feedback about the result.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@Entità said:
Master said:
Entità said:This reform is very urgent.
Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.
Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.
Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game.
The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.
Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)
Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then?
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
Survivors will always find arguments against that because they dont want the game to be balanced around voice comms
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@Entità said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:@Entità said:
Master said:
Entità said: This reform is very urgent. Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry. Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy. Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :( The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system. Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days) Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help.
The game is 18+
The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.0 -
Master said:
@Entità said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:@Entità said:
Master said:
Entità said: This reform is very urgent. Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry. Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy. Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :( The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system. Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days) Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help.
The game is 18+
The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.What insults are you talking about? Bad words are quite different from having a long conversation with unknown people about game coordination. I know many 12/13/14yo players: you are confusing rules and reality. The PEGI classification is not a law prohibition: a lot of under age people use that game, which is far less scary than other horror games. Moreover, to know a good spoken English it's not a game requirement: that's a game, not a school lesson to learn foreign languages.Could you kindly read and comment the OP? Do you agree? Don't you agree? How would you amend it?1 -
I like this scenario I'll hope the devs will read this
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@Entità said:
Master said:@Entità said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:
@Entità said: Master said:
Entità said: This reform is very urgent. Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry. Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy. Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system. Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days) Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then?
@NuclearBurrito2 What?
Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools
Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help.The game is 18+
The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.
What insults are you talking about? Bad words are quite different from having a long conversation with unknown people about game coordination. I know many 12/13/14yo players: you are confusing rules and reality. The PEGI classification is not a law prohibition: a lot of under age people use that game, which is far less scary than other horror games. Moreover, to know a good spoken English it's not a game requirement: that's a game, not a school lesson to learn foreign languages.
Could you kindly read and comment the OP? Do you agree? Don't you agree? How would you amend it?
The death threats I receive are usually in english. Maybe three times a year I get this russian that spams some stuff, but thats really an exception.
Also you are not forced to use voice comms, its just an possibilities for those that wanna use them but dont play SWF
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Killer mains, survivor mains, both sides players... don't you feel the extreme urgency of this reform to give solos back a chance against the killer and to help killers against well organized teams? Haven't you noticed a majority of solos trials is a waste of time? Haven't you noticed some friends have the power to mock and humiliate the killer? How is it possible the Decisive Strike reform causes a tsunami in the community, while this bleeding issue is ignored? People of the Fog, a game should be funny for both roles under any circumstances: now, instead, good SWF are gods and solos are meat to slaughter, and killers take revenge against solos for the toxic trials experienced towards powerful SWF, which makes the imbalance even worse!
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@not_Queen @Patricia Playing solo, it is literally impossible to get a pip at high ranks: only well-organized teams have an opportunity, remote but real. The new ranking system requires more than ever a rapid overcoming of the gap between Solos and SWF.
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"so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush."
Sounds like your problem isn't the communication, it's 4 good survivors playing together. In solo queue, there's always a few bad teammates that give the killer the win which isn't really fun for really good survivors that are dragged downed because of their team.
Reminds me when Jendenise and her friends played with no mics and the volume turned all the way to silent, destroyed the killer, and the killer got mad about SWF. it's like - dude, they were literally playing the game on silent, you can't really complain about that lol. One of the games was against nurse, too. https://youtu.be/BS0fdLAqps4
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I love this idea. I would actually go a step further and say that all non-teachable perks should be available at T1 from the start for both killer and survivor. The blood web is just so random and I'm not one of those survivors that gets 30k bp a trail.
@ guys who want universal voice chat
Have you ever played a game that has this? Its annoying to say the least. VC would kill the atmosphere. I think it would help more if people actually played the game the way it was intended, but I'm not getting into that here :)
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@mooseKing Take overwatch for example, at at casual level its best to ignore voice chat and maybe even mute it completely because of all the #########. However, the higher you climb, the better the quality of voice chat becomes since all the ######### are stuck in silver elo and in higher elo it will even be necessary to use voice chat due its insane advantage.
Same could apply for DBD, assuming the ranking system would finally work properly.
There is no other way than ingame comms if you want to balance for SWF and solo at the same time, no amount of UI can compensate for real time communication across the whole map
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@Master A voice chat is available with PS4 parties, skype, discord and other free tools. There is no need to put it into the game with a lot of programming effort. Moreover, not always French people want (or are able) to talk with Chinese, Turkish and British players. The Devs should give more in-game info to the survivors and more power in the endgame to the killer by implementing some passive skills, as explained in the OP.
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Voice chat is not sth that needs a lot of "programming effort", in fact its a standard application nowadays. PS4 parties, skype and discord are exactly why swf have such a advantage over solo players, because they are premade and can use those tools.
99% of the community speaks english, at least thats my rough estimate based on the insults that are thrown at me (usually in english)
The UI of DBD is already overloaded for a horror game and takes a lot away, but even if they add tons of information to it, it will never be enough to compensate for real time communication
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@Master What's the utility of an in-game voice chat if there are parties, skype, discord and so on? Who wants it can just today have it.
Voice chat destroys the immersiveness more than extra icons or numbers: you feel to be in a safe place with happy friends, no killer can scare you.
Written English and spoken English are quite different. Moreover, to know some insults it's very less demanding than formulating sentences about game events or strategies.
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The utility of ingame voice chat is giving solo survivors the same that SWF teams have already. And no, this can only be achieved by playing SWF.
And of course you could disable voice chat in the menu if you really dont want to deal with other people, then the situation wouldnt change at all for you
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@Master Solo players can create parties with unknown mates on PS4: they have 1 minute to invite the other three guys and to play with voice chat. The same thing happens on PC with third-party apps. Again, what's the difference between in game and out of the game voice chats?
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If there is no difference, then I dont see why you are against having ingame voice comms. You can simply turn them off if you dont communicate and everyone benefits
And regarding PC, not everyone has the right 3rd party program installed and not everybody wants to share a private server e.g.
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@Master I'm not against your idea: you are against mine. If the Devs want to add in game voice chat, nothing to object. I'd prefer the @Ihatelife's icons and passive skills for both roles, linked and explained in the OP.
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Your revised Kindred sounds like the map beacon, but weaker?
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Thanks <3
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@not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Shelby Is there any project to fill the SWF-Killers-Solos gaps in the future patches (2.8.0...), maybe with passive skills or new status icons to help solos sharing info? I don't ask for details: just give me some hope this issue will be fixed, please... :)
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Solo survivors need a buff. That's for sure.
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