Penalise camping killers
As much as I love playing DBD, I'm getting sick to death of killers babysitting hooks after I've been hooked, it's happening almost every game now, why do people play as the killer if they are to lazy to go hunting for survivors, DBD very much favours the killer as they get much better perks than us, why can't you penalise the killers for camping at hooks and also tunnelling injured survivors, given us at least some kind of sporting chance! If they camp at hooks for a period of time, then they should lose the use of their weapon for a time, and constant tunnellers should get their speed reduced, just A suggestion!
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They don't seem to listen to any reasonable feedback on the subject. To avoid camping and tunneling there a few things that must ALL be done:
1) BP penalty (aggressive, to the point where they lose BP)
2) No iridescent shard accumulation penalty - possibly lose shards as well
3) NO objective completion in that game (daily, rift, steam, nothing)
4) Increased delay timer for their next game - 10 mins per occurrence should correct the issue pretty fast. Get these killers out of the queue
The problem comes in the talent of the devs - I don't trust them to be able to detect camping and tunneling especially when so many smaller bugs still exist (hitboxes through walls, timers, etc.)
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What about camping when all the gens are done and what about when survivors keep tunnelling gens
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For that to happen, the objective of the game would have to be altered. Or atleast, getting a kill shouldn't make it way easier for the killer that it basically forces them to kill someone fast.
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Another thread about how killers need to be punished for camping?!
1) Camping is a SUPPORTED strategy by the devs.
2) Why would a killer not camp when they can get the most value out of it?
3) Camping and tunneling are the logical response of killers that can't keep up with the game's pace.
4) Killers should not just be punished for camping but rewarded for leaving the area.
5) Some killers are literally designed to camp.
6) If killers become prohibited from camping then so should survivors, right? Meaning no one is allowed to do a gen as long as the they are in the terror radius.
7) This is the most important. A killer camping you is not a personal insult. It's the killer trying everything they can to win.
I get it. Camping sucks. I know. But simply punishing killers for doing the rational thing is just a bad idea. Instead camping needs to be understood as an issue and fixed accordingly.
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first the hook time needs to be extended.In this meta, the generator times are so long and the killer actions are shortened.unhook time should also be reduced by at least half.
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I can admit camping is definitely a not nice thing. Doesn't stop or hadn't stopped me from doing it. At that point I had already given up on the game in it's entirety (The game game itself, DBD). Sure it could use some stuff, but along with survs causing camping, what the deal to do?
Tunnelling is just exaggerated. I bet we could get people to post supposed tunneled clips and it would just make them look stupid for calling it tunneling. Its hardly an issue in most cases.
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As much as I love playing DBD, I'm getting sick to death of survivors babysitting generators after I've been getting on a gen, it's happening almost every game now, why do people play as the survivor if they are to lazy to go hunting for other gens?, DBD very much favours the survivor as they get much more teammates that than us, why can't you penalise the survivors for camping at gens and also tunnelling almost finished gens, given us at least some kind of sporting chance! If they camp at gens for a period of time, then they should lose the use of their perks for a time, and constant tunnellers should get their speed reduced, just A suggestion!
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these camping threads XD lol. It happens so do gens and stop watching while doing nothing to get out. I see campers do nothing and the same group do NOTHING. If the other 3 get on gens asap. You’ll probably escape with only 1 sacrifice
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Killers have perks to reduce genrushing, and since decisive strike was obliterated, survivors don't have perks to reduce tunneling (since the killer can immediately hit them to remove OTR from play)
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Maps being balanced would help
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If we dont adjust gen tunneling then we can't address killer tunneling either.
Both are a relevant issue and it needs to change. If chases are short and gens are longer the killer can go for more chases and not feel they have to tunnel because they lose 2-3 gens in the first chase.
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Basekit BT.
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That still hardly matters against a tunneling killer, especially if they have STBFL on
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It doesn't matter how many features they add, there will always people that try to pull that "still hardly matters" card.
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Ultimate solution to reduce :
- Camping
- The GenRush
- The tunnel
Camping :
When a survivor is hooked, the latter is teleported to the hook at the other end of the map.
And for 45 seconds, he is not visible to the killer.
The killer can't camp a hook he can't see.
Gen Rush :
- 4 place generator: 1.
- 2 place generators: 1.
- 1 place generator: 6.
Make the Generators in 1 place difficult to access, dangerous, in the open. (In narrow places where escaping is risky)
The tunnel :
- When a survivor is unhooked for the first time.
His character is no longer visible to the killer (Aura and skin), for 2 minutes,
The aura of survivors who have not yet been hooked is visible to the killer for 1 minute.
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Killers already are punished for camping by allowing survivors do gens for free,, go do a gen when killer camps and stop hovering around hooks doin nothing, as boring as it is sometimes camping is not only a valid strat but also the correct play for a killer
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No im just saying basekit BT is negated as well as Off the recors if they hit you immediately atfter being unhooked and once they do that they can just down you and put you back on the hook to continue camping and theres not much the survivor can do
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Yes, you can not unhook a Survivor when the killer is so close to the hook he can reach out and touch it.
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Both things don't exist. At endgame there is no camp/tunnel as there are no other objectives. Same goes for survivor - the term makes no sense. If it made any sense then finishing a chase with down would also be considered tunneling - you normally don't leave survivors after injuring them or after getting their DH out or after 1-2 pallets are used (exceptions may apply - but that's same for both sides).
Camping and to lesser degree also tunneling is super easy and yet super rewarding and super boring. Asking DEVS (as opposed to killer players) to change this is only reasonable.
It's as reasonable as killer-players asking DEVS to remove infinite loops and abusing 1 window/loop forever for exactly the same reasons. The only difference is that one side playes killers and got their wish granted (as we have seen the catering to their side on most patches for a few years now) and the other side did not - and we see by queue times/incentives/39% what is happening with the game thanks to that.
You already have like 6 very usable regression perks. If you use them and survivors try to finish their 1 designated gen, you must be very bad to actually loose the game with very few exceptions (like survivors keeping 2+ BNP's for that generator).
Again. This person thinks patch 6.1 was nerf to killers. Don't take him seriously. Same as his "tunnel gens" "idea".
no longer applicable after 6.1. Gens take too long compared to survivor hook stages. Especially in soloQ where survivors don't know they have to focus on gens (this was issue also prio to 6.1 for soloQ)
How would you unhook survivor with killer far away if killer camps? There is just no way (and as stated before it's not possible to genrush him for it thanks to 6.1 buffs). Reinsurrance counters it to some degree, but there are quite a few restrictions (hooking in the open against huntress/trickster, basement bubba, ...)
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We do not know the exact player numbers this game has right now. What we do know is the numbers on Steam. There is nothing that tells me "OMG the game is in a bad spot. The devs better do something quick." there. Yes, they have been decreasing but this is normal for DBD. You have huge spike in player number and then it decreases again.The reason you see the matchmaking incentives on survivor most of the time is because this game has a ratio of 1:4 when it comes to matchmaking. That means even if there are 20.000 survivors and 7.500 killers the matchmaking incentive would still be on the survivor side. I don't know which region you play on but I can tell you in the evenings killers get the incentive pretty consistently in western Europe.
With that out of the way let's get into your suggested solution. You want something that makes it harder for killers to camp. That is already a thing. You have for example the option to either run Kinship or Reassurence. Reassurence is locked behind a pay wall, which sucks, but so are most good killer perks. These work perfectly fine against anything that is not a Basement Bubba. You can't brainlessly punish the killer for tunneling and camping. How would the game even know if the killer is camping or they just don't have any reason to leave the hook. In many situations survivors get unhooked instantly by their team mates swarming the hook. Why would the killer leave in that situation? What happens when the survivors find themselves in a 3 gen scenario and the killer hooks 1 person in the middle of it? Do we punish this killer for playing smart? The game cannot distinguish tunneling from the killer being unable to find anyone else, the survivor literally running in the killer's face or just having bad luck either. Even most players can't do that.
Now, on to the other points:
Tunneling gens does exist. Wether you like it or not. It's the same reasoning behind a killer tunneling a survivor. Why would you complete 1/3 of your objective and then just leave and do whatever? That is not something anyone would do, survivor or killer, if they are not trying to be especially nice. Survivors are allowed to commit to gens yet the killer somehow is not allowed to commit to a single survivor. Such an analogy exists for camping as well. It is exactly the same reasoning. You know it, I know, everyone else knows it.
Most gen regression perks heavily depend on the survivors in their effectiveness. SoloQ suffers from Eruption while a SWF can deal with it pretty well. Overcharge is easy to counter. Hitting that skill check is not increadibly hard. Ruin is pretty much worthless now. Pain Res only when the killer hooks a survivor on a scourge hook. Prolonging the chase, going down in area you know has no scourge hook or sabotating a scourge hook are effective counters. Also keep in mind even 1000+ gen regression perks will not help once that gen is finished. That is something you see quite a lot recently. Survivors do gens increadibly fast. Prove Thyself is the main culprit and it doesn't have any special conditions other than doing a gen with multiple people. The killer has to do more than that to actually get value out of their perks (except Ruin).
Since you bring up 6.1.0 quite a lot let me explain the issue to you. 6.1.0 was a massive improvement for killers. No argument there. But it did not fix the core issues killers had to deal with. Gens now take 10s longer each, right? So that equals 50 seconds in total. For a single survivor. Fortunately it is not a 1v1 but a 1v4. Meaning effectively gens take 12.5 seconds longer at best. With the meta shake up however Prove Thyself becamore more popular. This easily saves the team 30-60s without any special requirements. There is also Hyperfocus + Stakeout which can speed up matches to ridiculous paces.
If the killer "camps" from far away, get this, they are not camping. No killer (other than Twins) has the ability to be far away and still right near the hook. That is not how it works. Ranged killers do have counterplay if you didn't know. Huntress hatchets sadly do not have an auto aim feature yet. Meaning you can dodge. Same for Trickster. There is also a thing with maps that might help. It's called "cover". They can't hit you through objects. Use that.
I would be fine with some form of punishment for camping and tunneling, personally, as long as the game also rewards killers for playing nice. Right now though that is not the case. You literally throw matches by playing nice. Medkits have lead to killers committing to pretty much every chase and of course when you find an injured survivor you will go after them. Otherwise they will greet you later with a big smile on their face, medkit in hand, fully healed and ready to waste your time with each hit. Camping is (mostly) a reaction to survivors finishing gens so fast the killer can't afford to waste their time running over the map trying to find someone or a strategy the killer might use when they find themselves in favorable position the 3 gen scenario I mentioned earlier.
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What survivor playstyles would you punish with BP and shards loss? You can't just target one side with punishment or there would be no killers left. Both sides wants to have "fun"
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-"Tunneling gens does exist. Wether you like it or not. It's the same reasoning behind a killer tunneling a survivor. Why would you complete 1/3 of your objective and then just leave and do whatever? That is not something anyone would do, survivor or killer, if they are not trying to be especially nice. Survivors are allowed to commit to gens yet the killer somehow is not allowed to commit to a single survivor."
This is the uncomfortable truth. One side wants to be able to blast its objective as efficiently as possible to make it nearly impossible for the other side to win without wanting the opposition to do the same for them.
Survivors tunnel my gens so I tunnel them. It would be different if there were a base game mechanic such as scourge hook pain res or old pre nerf pop 'base kit' effect by hooking a survivor that you did not hook last time. Anything less than that and it only makes sense to chase one person three times.
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Absolute numbers don't tell full story. I agree there. But having incentives on one side most of the time and yet having instant Q time is problem. So is 39% escape rate. It strongly signals overall balance of the game is wrong. Sure we can talk about different skill levels and say it's ok in some specific group, but a, we don't really know because we don't have numbers b, it would also mean that other skill groups are that much more broken - and if people loose too much in some skill bracket, they will probably leave the game and never get over that skill bracket = slow player bleed out.
As for reassurence. Sure. I use it every single game. And it's still a bandaid that does not even work all the time. Huntress in the open or basement bubba are the most prominent (but not the only offenders) examples of situations where reassurence does nothing against camper. I mean the perk really helps, but it's like current DS. It just is not good enough. And sure. For killer that defends instant unhook (can force trade) or is able to hook into 3gen. All of this is fine. But the game should allow semi-reliable hook trade. Standing on a single spot being AFK should not be best winning strategy. It makes no sense.
And for your tunneling gens. No. Again. That's bullshit. It's same as me calling killer tunneler for finishing a chase and not leaving survivor to heal himself after a chase. Makes 0 sense right? So why do you mention finishing stuff directly in front of you tunneling? Because real tunneling is ignoring EVERYTHING in game just to get LAST HOOKED survivor again on the hook. Tunneler will ignore other downed survivor that bodyblocked him. THAT is tunneling and nothing else. Does survivors ignore all the other gens just to complete a completed gen? I mean... Last I played I wasn't allowed to interact with completed gen. But maybe you had - if that is the case you could have tunneled it. But please provide me with clip of it.
Pop (yes it's still good for defending 3-gen. You just have to be in position where defending it makes sense), pain res, eruption, CoB, OC (with some other stuff to make it hard - like taking doctor) take 3 of these and you will have easy games in low and maybe even mid elo. Sure in high skill bracket you might struggle. And yet really good killer mains do looong winstreaks anyway (which is still possible with at least half of all the killers).
Also proof saves you at most like 7 seconds with a huge downside - you need multiple people on a same spot. Most of the times this will produce injury/death if killer finds you, because there's just 1 window or 1 pallet in that side of the loop (you don't run into killer). Also those 7s are much less then a good toolbox. I have no idea why people obsess so much about this perk. I mean I understand hyperfocus. But then again - how many people can really use it well enough? You usually take whole build around it which is making it harder to chase/heal/not be tunneled/camped/etc. I mean it's still unfair against killers. But at least it's so hard that only very few people really benefit from the perk.
There are more killers that can be far and still camp. Huntress in the open (say on headonfield mid), hag (but she has counterplay), mentioned twins (which btw also has same counterplay), nurse/blight/wesker in the open (distance is more limited, but it's still there) and I would even argue that freddy, sadako and dredge can too (but at least this requires skillful interactions and pretty good game sense to pull off - so I don't really mind it in these 3).
For your last point. Sure. Killers should not be a joke. They should get compensation buffs. I would especially really welcome something generic (meaning it's a mechanic shared for all killers) that is hard to pull off and punishes you if you don't get it right, but if you do get it, then it helps you a lot. Something like killer moonwalking, but much more extreme (survivor can fool you into loosing you altogether, but if you get it right, you can instadown even on shack pallet). To say it differently - I want for really good killer players to be able to show off. Same way as some survivors that are able to take hyperfocus and solo finish gen in 60s.
One last thing. Once you fall into a trap of camping+tunneling, you will slow down your progress (you getting better at killer). You will suddenly start to meet really good survivors that are able to mindgame you on every loop. Every pallet. And make your chase last so long, that 3 gens pop. They will start to look way too OP and you would see that survivors really do need to be nerfed because it makes no sense to try to chase. Because suddenly all chases are too easy for survivors. But the truth is, that you play against people that have multiples of your experience and they learn faster then you. Because they a tually chase and play the game without taking shortcuts. And they will see if they can make 1 more loop before dropping the pallet. And you will still win the game with 3k. But you will also feel like it was too hard... And the next game will be even harder. THIS is one of the reasons why camp and tunnel should go. It will help also killers in the long run (and again - killers should get some compensation for such a nerf. One that is very rewarding. But also one that does not force you to look at 1 spot and not move an inch)
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These are some great suggestions and a really constructive response, it's nice to see someone actually grasped the opening post. I fully agree that there should be penalties in place for killers that camp within a certain radius of the hook. When a killer purposely stands directly in front of a hooked survivor to prevent them jumping off, and indeed letting their team mates anywhere near them, they should receive penalties. Cheap tactics like this not only rob the hooked survivor of their objective points, it null and voids perks like Slippery Meat and Deliverance. How is that even allowed?! Killers should not have the ability to block survivor perks in any way, it's brutally unfair and a prime example of how this game favors the killer. If a survivor loiters in one spot for too long crows start circling their head, yet this doesn't happen to killers when they babysit hooks, why? There is nothing remotely fair in only issuing a penalty like that to one side and not the other. There are also killers capable of taking down a survivor in a single strike, so when they resort to the cheap tactic of babysitting hooks, survivors attempting to rescue a team mate have no chance to escape. It simply becomes a vicious circle which robs the participating survivors of any decent score. Once again displaying the favorable benefits a killer has over survivors. I feel the 'thumbs down' button on the results page should be far nore specific. If a player receives a certain number of thumbs down for camping, then a penalty should be put in place that reduces their blood point score just like they reduce a survivors.
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