http://dbd.game/killswitch
Nurse HAS counterplay, learn it
The popular conception amongst the community is that Nurse has "no counterplay". It's as if picking Nurse is guaranteed 4K and a win (already disproven by statistics both at the top MMR and all MMRs)
It's also humorous considering Nurse has quite a lot of counterplay tools, but Survivor players are lazy, refuse to adapt and give up without even trying. You can't just brainlessly run 3 times around Killer Shack, drop a God Pallet and give your team free 2 gens. Nah ah, this killer has different gameplay elements to it, so you also have to play unconventionally.
Here is the list of things you can do:
- Line of Sight break - easily done on most maps, force Nurse to guess which is always a disadvantage for Nurse.
- Judging Nurse Blink Distance - estimate how long the Nurse has been holding her blink to judge what distance she can cover, perform juke
- Indoor maps - self-explanatory
- Dead Hard - not very hard to use against Nurse, 3rd health state
- Use objects as your advantage - it's not the easiest thing for a Nurse to blink past objects, so use it to make it harder for her to get a good blink
- Be unpredictable with your pathing - if you use conventional pathing, that's on you - you're making it easy for the Nurse to perform good blinks
- Hold W (against non-range addons) - this destroys Nurse a lot, if she makes a mistake and you hold W, she at least has to blink 3-4 times to catch up to you. Doesn't work as well against Range addons.
- Use Stealth - should be a brainer, but somehow this is never emphasized. Nurse won't check every corner when she patrols gens and if she doesn't see you - you're likely safe. If you know she is coming, hide. You have more chance to survive than trying to "loop her"
There are more tricks you can do, but the point here is that there are many small things that you can do to make Nurse's life harder. It's not even hard, you just have to learn and get better.
Learn to adapt to the game - you cannot loop her like an M1 killer but that doesn't mean you cannot waste her time at all. She doesn't have "no counterplay", you're just making excuses because you refuse to adapt to a different killer playstyle. Bubba face camping is no counterplay, Nurse is not.
And no, "good Nurse will still destroy you" is not an argument. She will be very strong, but you can still force her to take 50/50s which any Nurse (good or bad) will despise. The 50/50s can even become 70/30s in your favour if you read the player right and be unpredictable.
And well, if you got destroyed by a good Nurse, you better give her +REP considering most of the community sucks at her and she's not a problem in the game (compared to things like SWF).
Comments
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I don’t personally think Nurse is that bad to face but I understand she’s essentially game-breaking. I do think it says something when some of the top players (Otz, Ayrun, etc) say she needs rebalancing.
Some of your counters are off, though:
- you can’t know you’re facing Nurse until you are in a match with her, so you may not be on a map that “counters” her.
- Dead Hard is easy to bait and Nurse doesn’t care about the minor speed boost distance a survivor receives from timing it right. I wouldn’t say it’s an efficient counter against Nurse. If anything, SB or Lithe are better
- I’ve never seen running forward used as an efficient counter against Nurse. Wouldn’t recommend.
But hiding/stealthing, erratic pathing (predicting her predictions to confuse her), those are good tips.
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Nurse's counterplay to you then. Nurse then goes hunts down your team.
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I think Nurse could be a fun Killer to go against -- not in her present state --, but "break line of sight" is always the first piece of advice as far as a counter. Don't let her run Starstruck, there's a counter.
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you can’t know you’re facing Nurse until you are in a match with her, so you may not be on a map that “counters” her.
Fair, but a lot of maps have obstacles, buildings etc. Even Midwich which is arguably the best Nurse's map has MANY lines of sight blocking. Ormond is literally a better Nurse map than Midwich.
Dead Hard is easy to bait and Nurse doesn’t care about the minor speed boost distance a survivor receives from timing it right. I wouldn’t say it’s an efficient counter against Nurse. If anything, SB or Lithe are better
Agree and disagree. There are instances where it didn't do much, and instances where it literally extended chases by 30s+ because of additional chance.
I’ve never seen running forward used as an efficient counter against Nurse. Wouldn’t recommend.
Disagree. Against non-range add-ons, this is a brutal tactic. Nurse gets punished hard for missing blinks, you can run enough distance that she cannot catch up to you with 2 blinks. This is especially effective when paired with line-of-sight blocking - she has to walk to get back line of sight and then blink - loads of time waste.
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Can you show us the counterplay in a custom match? I'm willing to take the role of nurse. You show us how you counter someone like me who doesn't even play nurse. Then we can start discussions about how to counter someone who plays nurse regularly. IF you even can show it well against me haha
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Id escape her if I had smoke bombs
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Well have you ever played her before or will this be a first time Nurse? It'd would be more meaningful if they were playing vs an average Nurse.
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Plenty of highly skilled players make Nurse's life harder. And why would I take you as an example? I won't use some random from forums as a sample size LMFAO. My post is made based on playing as and against Nurse and watching a lot of other players play her.
Hilarious try at defusing my points though, lol!
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I'll show you on Sunday after you play your best killer first like we've got planned what's your steam tag? Seems like you missed me asking that in the other thread
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Your weekend is already booked.
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"Here is how you counter Nurse!"
"Okay so custom game me and prove it"
"Why would I custom game some rando from the forums LMFAO"
You're not proving your point very well
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The problem with Nurse's counterplay has always been that the rate at which you accumulate experience against Nurse, as a survivor, will always be slower than the rate you accumulate experience against your generic killers that you can loop indefinitely.
There are simply more of them and you will play against them more.
The solution is to ask a Nurse to go into customs and teach you, or to be very patient. But then once you get this far you have another problem:
Now you have three teammates more likely to mald in the forum, screeching, "NO COUNTERPLAY." - As opposed to learning themselves.
My duo's drive me nuts because they're all experienced survivors, but against Nurse they do the dumbest things and then act surprised.
Edit: A somewhat good example showing counterplay to Nurse and Blight at higher MMR, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7CH6kjvqpg
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Nah, man, you're right. Because this guy will beat me with Nurse on 1 game sample size, then my argument is gone - completely disappeared into ashes. This guy has just proved that Nurse indeed is OP.
Cringe attempt at flexing.
This reminds me of a time when I beat 4 survivors and one of them asks me "come 1v1". It's hilarious.
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Indeed. The mentality aspect and refusal to learn/adapt is a big reason for such survivor outrage.
Survivors taken out of comfort zone = literally no counterplay.
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I'm just saying that when you state something the burden of proof is on you to back up the claim. You made the statement of Nurse counterplay, so you provide the emperical evidence to prove that it works, and if when given that opportunity you don't take it it then makes your argument look weak as it's unsupported and you're refusing to support it.
That's all.
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Trust me, it doesn't take a good nurse to stomp. Give me 1 day heads up to train nurse a bit and all the "nurse has counterplay" will fall apart.
I'm also dead serious with my challenge, I would love to put a stop on this "nurse has counterplay" delusion and give them all a taste of the reality. The reality check is deeply needed for the loud minority of bad players.
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And there's the glaring issue with her. The fact that you need to be super good as survivor to do well against her. That's unreasonable to ask of casual players, who are also facing these same nurses.
I see a few issues with your counterplay:
1: LoS.You literally say "easily done on most maps" On top of me disagreeing that this is easy, the fact that this isn't possible on certain maps is rather exemplary of the bigger issue.
2: I agree with this on a basic level, but is still too much to expect from a medium-tier survivor.
3: Indoor maps, invalid counterplay.
4: Dead Hard: perks =/= counterplay.
5: Use objects to literally "stop Nurse in her tracks". This once again requires keen map knowledge, which most survivors simply do not care to acquire.
6: Be unpredictable. Again, I agree with this on a basic level, but there are a lot of times when the second blink is enough to make up for a wrong guess. Not to mention that there are perks that temporarily yet completely eliminate the guessing on her end.
7: You state the issue with this yourself.
8: This is a rather uncommon tip, so I'll give you that. However, if she does find a stealthy survivor, she has the first hit for basically free, and the survivor is going to be outpositioned. If she had recharge add-ons, this is a death-sentence.
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This is 100% it. She is manageable if you have the practice against her. But she's wholly unique in her chase mechanics, so you only get better against Nurse by playing against Nurse. Most of what works against Nurse doesn't remotely apply to other killers. And most of what applies to other killers will end your chase very quickly against Nurse.
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Nurse is actually really fun to chase. I'm lucky enough to not face Starstruck/one-hit-downs Nurses often, and most I see are very fun to try and mindgame. :)
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Hey, tell me whether sweaty Nurses should be able to run Starstruck against solo queue. lol. Solo is already bad enough, but you still go against one-shot Nurses.
Nurse gets one hook and, as long as one player is out in the open, Nurse procs Starstruck, downs the Survivor in the open, and the game is over. Second counterplay. Hey, PC Nurses have a much more forgiving lunge than console Nurses. lol. There is your second example of "Nurse counterplay".
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I won't use 1 game against random as my argument - it's delusional. You would have to play against that person 10+ times to get anything statistically relevant. And even then, it's one person. I'm sorry that you are finding this hard to grasp statistically.
My arguments were based on 50s+ of games playing as and against Nurse. Additionally, you have statistics which devs have released that Nurse does have counterplay, even at top MMR. These statistics are also consistent throughout the years when Nurse always had low winrate compared to killers.
Or who knows, maybe I am just lying and I can't state anything until I beat this guy on Sunday evening, LOL! Ngl, I kind of giggled when I read all of this. Funny.
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Nurse has other addons than recharge and distance. Learn it!
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You have alerted the horde.
JK. I share the same opinion. The nurse is really fun to play against most of the time, and presents a good challenge compared to the mindless boring looping of a lot of killers in the game. And it feels very rewarding when you play well against her.
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I could be wrong, but don't Lockers completely counter her Blink?
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Not completely, but if you time it well, you can get some benefit afaik. I've seen it done a few times.
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Thanks for the tips everyone already knows.
Thanks to your wonderful thread, the secret to Nurse's counterplay (that no one except you and other nurse mains who defend her on these forums knew about, despite Nurse being on the killer roster for 6 years now) has been discovered.
People will now realize they were wrong. It was not Nurse's broken mechanics that were bothering them, but the fact that after years and years of playing at high MMR, they just never learned to play against her.
I'm sure she will drop quite far in the tier lists thanks to this thread. She's probably below Clown now, even. And it's all thanks to you, player who probably hasn't even faced a good nurse.
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"I won't use 1 game against random as my argument - it's delusional. You would have to play against that person 10+ times to get anything statistically relevant. And even then, it's one person."
Oh then if any other offers come up then by all means also take them. Provide as much emperical evidence as is possible for your proof to make your argument all the more difficult to disprove. It's basic arguments 101.
I'm not picking a side here in this current debate. I'm not saying that you saying no proves you wrong or proves you right. I'm just saying that if you have no current proof you're able to freely post other than your claims and you're offered a chance to create evidence to act as your proof and you say no it doesn't make you seem more convincing.
Because your claims still do not have proof. If there was video evidence of your games I'd absolutely love to see them, because honestly I'm substantially better as killer than survivor and it shows in my gameplay and I'm always looking for ways to improve against any killer.
(Also kill rates literally mean nothing and it has been said by the devs many times to not use them as the basis for arguments or as evidence for them because they miss out so much detail that they have but can't fit into the graphs that any conclusions are intrinsically flawed)
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Someone hasn't learned how to break line of sight.
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Absolutely true this is why a lot of comp players will take turns playing nurse in a KYF, it not only gives you the opportunity to learn some solid counters but also gives you the experience of playing against different people that are really good with her and in a tourney knowing how to defend a good nurse can make a world of a difference and it will help you in pubs tremendously, so anyone out there who hates nurse should probably drop some good ones they play against a friend request and try to pick up some knowledge and have someone to play around in a KYF with.
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what i love to do to nurses, is hug the other side of awkward corners and as she blinks swap around to the side she was on, often get nurses eating a lot of walls this way but if the nurse is a pro, they're just gonna blink again and get you anyway
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They always chicken out.
Don't worry about it, I don't need a personal secretary planning my day. Nothing easier than to squeeze in a quick nurse stomp.
We can do as many games as you want. Tho, I won't do 100 games with you if you fail miserably 10 times in a row.
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Saving this for posterity.
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ok almofan1001
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1: LoS.You literally say "easily done on most maps" On top of me disagreeing that this is easy, the fact that this isn't possible on certain maps is rather exemplary of the bigger issue.
Breaking the line of sight is rather easy, I don't know what to say more about this. Anticipate objects in front of you and her blinks.
2: I agree with this on a basic level, but is still too much to expect from a medium-tier survivor.
It's also a lot to expect from a medium-tier Nurse to blink accurately every time.
3 Indoor maps, invalid counterplay.
The point is not to prove that you will win against Nurse every time. The point is to prove that you can win against Nurse in some scenarios. Saying something has no counterplay means that the other side wins 100 % of the time. Plenty of killers have strong and weak maps. Do we stop amplifying such points for other killers too?
4: Dead Hard: perks =/= counterplay.
Using the same logic, range addons should also not be counted to prove that Nurse is OP. This whole game is balanced around using perks to counter things.
5: Use objects to literally "stop Nurse in her tracks". This once again requires keen map knowledge, which most survivors simply do not care to acquire.
"This once again requires keen map knowledge" - just literally go to a thick wall? or a medium-sized object? This doesn't require map knowledge at all.
6: Be unpredictable. Again, I agree with this on a basic level, but there are a lot of times when the second blink is enough to make up for a wrong guess. Not to mention that there are perks that temporarily yet completely eliminate the guessing on her end.
Fair, but also at the same time I disagree that 2nd blink is enough to rectify the mistake. Usually, it's enough to get back into the line of sight but not enough for a hit. Unless the Nurse is close to you then your point applies strongly.
7: You state the issue with this yourself.
It can go both ways. Range add-ons mean that she will blink extremely far, which means you can use this actually against her. You can juke her easily with short to medium distances while long distances will be lethal. The opposite is true without range addons. I've been outplayed myself a lot of times cause survivors didn't hold W and I blinked too far.
8: This is a rather uncommon tip, so I'll give you that. However, if she does find a stealthy survivor, she has the first hit for basically free, and the survivor is going to be outpositioned. If she had recharge add-ons, this is a death-sentence.
No decent Nurse will waste time searching for a survivor unless it was very obvious that you were here. Play safe and hide, but don't hide when it's already quite obvious that you were there and/or she has seen you.
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Someone can't read properly.
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It is true that Nurse has counterplay. The thing is she has LITTLE counterplay. Even if you manage to not get hit by the first blink she still has a second. Her recovery is short so she can often enough just go for another try if she misses. The punishment for her making a suboptimal play exists but that is about it. There are a lot of maps that are very open and don't allow the survivor to break LOS easily to have some counterplay. I think arguing that Nurse is not as strong when tshe gets an unfavorable map is not something we should do. Every killer has their weak maps but the difference is that Nurse only suffers from 1 aspect and can adept to it. That is not always possible for other killers. I'm not the best Nurse but I can tell you: It is often easy to read the survivor's movements good enough to get in range for a second blink hit. That is my main problem with her. Even if she gets outplayed she still has a second chance. How many other killers have this? She also has the ability to blink to a survivor from a large distance and negate any counterplay if they didn't know the Nurse was coming after them.
Some of the best Nurse players in the game aknowledge that she does indeed need to be looked at. I think that counts for something.
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I'll be the first to complain about solo queue, but snowballs off of Starstruck Nurse are the result of bad positioning by the survivors. There's no reason to be anywhere near a downed player against Nurse. Just start running as soon as the teammate goes down. Keep running. There's zero upside in hanging around unless you finish that gen before the hook happens. If you ran early enough, Starstruck is over long before that teammate hits 2nd stage.
Obviously there are exceptions like Midwich, The Game, RPD
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The nurse isn't a problem both at the Top and all MMRs. It's the survivor's mentality that is a problem.
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To be honest the statistics they released don't track killer builds. When Nurse's are not runnign Lethal and Starstruck and whatever else fits that build, they are easier to play against. I only have like 250 hours of DBD so far and average Nurses are manageable, Ive even managed to escape and run a Nurse on Midwich once, but she still got a 3k because she had NOED. I do agree it's unreasonable to be scared of her or DC once you hear her (that has happened too in my matches), but aura reading Nurse leaves a lot less mind-gaming to chance.
The way I understand it is that you're supposed to keep her guessing, but if she's seeing you behind the wall there's nothing to guess on her part.
I do find playing vs Nurse fun if she's chasing me and I can keep up, but if she decides to give up on me most of the time she can easily get kills and I'm not even that good. I do think people exaggerate Nurse players, but I think they are on to something when Nurse is going for the try-hard build in solo.
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You can do 5 rounds. I mean how long is it gonna take to go through them all, like 30 mins at most?
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i dont see why ppl bother trying to argue against something that is encoded in this hivemind community's brain by popular streamers. there's just no point. why put effort in your arguments if people say "lol" in response and somehow gather more agreement. not trying to talk about whether what you're saying is true or false, merely that ppl won't care because it's like somehow every dbd player should know, without any thinking, as a "fact", that nurse is not counterable.
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You're what we nurse mains call a double backer , you're either a full sender or a double backer and a person who is experienced is a little bit of both, the most common thing a good nurse would do is blink right to that corner they last saw you at and youd basically be staring at them in the face if you tried to double back the corner , the full senders keep running around the corner usually in a predictable running pattern holding W because for some ungodly reason some survivors haven't figured out they can look behind while running and the full senders in my opinion are the easiest downs, the experienced survivors will mix that up when the time is right and when they break LOS they run in a very odd run pattern that isn't predictable so instead of rounding the corner for example and running through a jungle gym, a good survivor will break LOS and go around a weird pathing to try and keep you guessing because the real counterplay to a good nurse is to make distance and keep them guessing, but if they're close knowing the timing on blinks is huge because that's how I'll determine whether double backing is worth it or not, but I'll say that against a really good nurse a open map can very well be a death sentence without the right team who knows how to defend against her
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Cool bait. Do you literally go into every thread and beg people to "1v1 me" lmao. Maybe you should just post VODs of your mpressive killer gameplay to prove your point instead. Should be much easier to do than attempt to beg someone to "1v1 him". Oh wait, it was never about proving your point lmao.
Or maybe even better - should become a streamer with the title "99 % KILL RATE GAMEPLAY". I mean, if you're accusing another side of chicken out, maybe you should just take initiative.
Why waste your time arranging 1v1s when you can silence literally all your deniers in one go? Sounds smart, doesn't it? Or are there problems with proving that point?
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It is our duty to lead the camels to water, even if they would rather die of dehydration.
It is the ultimate altruism. Too bad we don't get BP for it.
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Nurse arguments are completely pointless.
You will never ever ever ever change your opinion about it, neither will the people who think nurse is broken.
These arguments are useless. This post doesn't do anything but make everyone loud and annoying for a brief minute.
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Gets map with very little LoS breaks and objects to try and lose nurse on.
"Guess I'll die"
You aren't wrong, there is a counter to nurse and it isn't actually that hard to learn. The problem is, a good chunk of the time, it won't change the outcome.
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No offence, but your reply is also pointless. It contributed neither for, nor against any of the arguments.
Post edited by Gcarrara on1 -
Which maps have very little LoS break? I'd say Ormond is the strongest Nurse map, every other map has a strong building and typical obstacles which break LoS (jungle gyms, shack, etc.). And even open maps like Coldwind have corn which somewhat breaks LoS.
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@CoDismylife "They always chicken out"
Also Codismylife : challenges everyone in the entire community to face his killer while simultaneously refusing to provide his steam tag to ONE guy who accepts the challenge
You keep saying the weekend but we can't link up if I don't have you added for the invite
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All the more hilarious when we are supposed to believe him when he says he never played the nurse...
And I'm a red koala dancing the tango.
Well, why doesn't anyone believe me?
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