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How can we buff killers if we'll buff solo q?
In order for solo to be on the same level to swf they need coms, which I'm surprised we still don't have. Pretty much every multiplayer team game has voice chat. Not everyone uses mics, so adding communication wheel is a must and its not hard to do.
The question is how do we buff killers? I couldn't come up with any solutions. Increasing their movement speed can break the loops, shortening attack cooldown is not gonna let survivors to reposition. Gen kicking and hooking speed are the only things I could think of and they won't be enough. Any ideas?
Comments
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You have it backwards, no?
The gens were lengthened to 90s and the killer is 10% faster at everything all around.
Solo is struggling to keep pace and needs something to catch back up.
Basekit kindred is not going to magically increase every survivors' repair speed.
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What? 😐
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Fix maps. No need for any other base changes until then. I mean other than buffing bad killers like wraith and trapper. But it's better to make maps less disgusting before any other adjustments are made. Same with survivor side, change the way survivor's get/lose mmr and give them the information they deserve. I genuinely think solo queue is so unplayable because of the efficiency they lose because of no comms and teammates that have no right to be in a lot of people's lobby's. If those two things are fixed solo queue will be pretty powerful. I'm sure a lot of people will come in here and say "We don't buff killers" but they really don't understand how much efficiency will be gained by just the two changes I mentioned. Plus maps have been a problem forever in this game, the disparity between cowshed and Midwich is unacceptable. RNG is great and makes this game more interesting, but it really needs to take a backseat in regards to maps. Cowsheds infamous shack window into probably the best filler tile in the game into long wall jungle gym window facing shack window. The game almost plays itself if you get a setup like that. Regardless of what people think if you nerf eruption and give solo queue the changes they deserve m1 killer's will struggle almost as much as they did pre 6.1.0. There are quite a few things I would change outside of that, but I have typed in out in length in other threads and don't care much to do it right now, plus I already said what I think pertains to your post.
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The killer was recently buffed.
Solo q got no compensation.
So why should the killers get buffed again if solo q is thrown a bone?
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So unhooked survivor did not get endurance?
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Shouldn't BHVR wait a bit to see what the actual effect on the Kill rate is before buffing Killers? While I'm a big fan of the status icons the crouch walkers and self carers against Sloppy still gonna crouch walk and self care. There's a differential between having the information and actually using the information.
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It's hard to say without knowing exactly what ends up being done to address solo queue.
But balance-wise, improving solo queue and addressing unbalanced maps should be the highest general priorities right now, imo. Baffles me how Cowshed still exists in 2022. Some more perks should get looked at too.
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Strengthening Solo Q must be done carefully
Excessive it spoils the fear when playing this game for the first time
Also, even though there are powerful items such as keys, maps, and medical tools, many survivors don't want to take them with them.
choose a tough game
that is also a problem
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Add voice chat to the game full stop. Not proxy chat, I'm talking in game voice chat for survivors. Make it opt in by default. After that anyone willfully choosing not to use callouts and communication with their team is on them. Balance the maps next and take the game from there.
Anything less is just a band aid fix.
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You can't. Any buff to solos will be a direct nerf to killers, especially the weaker ones.
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You say you need voice chat
I don't want to hear a baby cry from the beginning of the ritual, or a stranger's grumpy remarks.
Of course, you can also mute
I don't want to be told something in chat because I couldn't make the ideal decision for them.
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Daniel, By bringing solo queue up to the same level as SWF as far as communication goes you can buff the other weaker killers to compensate. Its a fairly simple concept. Not to disparage, you really need to start looking at balance objectively. The game needs to be fun for everyone, Right now solo queue with the recent changes and current roster and meta is incredibly unfun to play. Killer is not fun to play at higher levels nor at lower levels because its a stomp both ways. There needs to be changes on both sides.
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You may forget how strong old 2nd chances were
- Hit through a BT
- Missing a hit with DH
- Hit down, then eat DS
- Hit down, to hook again
Now, survivors get strong BT for free, sure, but:
- Hit off hook will disable BT, DH, OTR at the same time.
- Hit down, to hook again.
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Buff killer first then. I'm tired of survivors getting all the good stuff, and then anytime killer gets anything, survivors have to be appeased so they get stuff again. Notice the pattern. Any one killer buff, two survivor buffs happen. I also notice how the meta stuff for killer is always "OP", but survivor stuff is simply "strong", and how survivors' counterplay to the killer is always brought up but never how the killer can counter the survivors. Y'all won't be able to hide behind, "But solo is weak" forever.
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Solo is weak until high mmr play. At least when a bunch of 2k hour solo's get together they are pretty efficient, but until then they are headless chickens with no game sense. It stems from how bad the average player is in this game and the lack of information solo queue gets. I am biased as a blight main, but I see no reason for solo not to get the action indication needed for basic efficient plays without a lot of game sense. Solo need's information and a rework to their mmr system for sure.
Solo will never be on the same level of swfs. They simply cannot reach the coordination of 4 player's actively trying to win from the get-go. By the first part of my post you can tell I want them to get the indicators they need to be efficient but I am just being realistic on this matter.
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lol this is insane. Killer is in the strongest spot its been since release. I don't want to talk about skill, but it seems like you really really struggle to get wins man. Everything is just grrrrr survivor make me angy.
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To improve solo, I'd be happy enough with the HUD being updated to show what survivor is doing what. That's more than enough information.
I hate the idea of voice comms. Nothing more off-putting than having some 12 year old yelling down a mic, and even if there were options to mute it, it could open the doors fpr other survivors BMing because of it.
Solo-Q would certainly benefit from some information changes, but turning trials into some form of CoD squad game is a turn-off for me.
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Thats why the person opening the discussion wanted to buff killer afterwards... that litetally makes your comment unnecessary.
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Solo needs only a few infos
- On Gen (with showing 0-20-40-60-80% progression)
- On Hex
- In chase
- At Gate
Solo is bad because of no coordination, not because bad at chase. You may die having 2min chase because an injured last hook teammate scared when hearing TR, not knowing killer is chasing you. If Hud shows someone is in chase, their could feel safe sitting on Gen and completed it.
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Exactly. It shouldn't be overpacked with information. It would be like holding hands with excessive info for me, and would encourage people to be less creative.
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1) Basekit Kindred without Killer aura reading
2) HUD icons that show you what your teammates are doing AND the perks/items they are running (this should also be shown in the lobby so you take off COH/PTS if three others are running it while letting you know who was Deli etc)
3) Rework the maps. Every. Single. One. M1 killers shouldn't be ran for five gens by pre-dopping 25 safe pallets.
4) Adjust Killers individually and remove busted addons.
Congratulations, you have a healthy and balanced game.
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Honestly most killers would probably be fine as it is even if they buffed solo queue. So I dont think they should implement anymore universal killer buffs anytime soon but instead do some specific killer buffs and reworks.
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This, its amazing how many people overlook the hugely problematic map design.
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We can buff them by not nerfing them
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I think he did a fine job but I thought he promised team-mmr for survivor. with his departure, I suppose that is not showing up any time soon.
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by balancing the maps as well so everyone is on equal grounds.
soloq may not be very good but they're carried by 99% of the god awful maps in this game and if that were fixed solo q can be made stronger without needing further killer buffs
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You don't. Killers literally don't need buffs right now
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It should be a case by case basis, rather than more blanket buffs like in the shake up patch. Nurse and Blight probably won't need any buffs, as they can handle swfs just fine. Trapper or any other killer that relies on disorganized teams to be powerful will need some hefty buffs. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Solo q has been neglected and left to rot for so long now, I don't care to think about more killer buffs atm.
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If survivors get extra game information, the only fair way to compensate killers is by giving them extra game information too.
1) If survivors are getting action icons, give the survivor action icons to the killer also
2) Lowering the chase music loudness, to make it easier for the killer to hear survivors
3) Raising the loudness of survivor footstep noises, and make them reliable on every floor material
4) Nerfing survivor stealth perks, to make it easier for killers to find survivors . For example, survivor perks that remove sounds, scratchmarks, or pools of blood, should be nerfed so the killer can track the survivors easier.
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The problem with sound is that it's always bugged anyway and extremelyunreliable. Sound hasn't been working properly in this game since release. Especially since engine update, when legion was released. So I doubt we can rely on those. If the sound was working properly, those would definitely be good buffs and that would be enough for killers. But unfortunately the audio is really bad in this game and I doubt it will be fixed.
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My biggest complaint about sounds is they shouldn't get extremely muffled or deleted when the killer doesn't have line of sight. The whole point of survivor footsteps is to help the killer track survivors when they don't have line of sight, so it's ridiculous that footstep noises are massively affected by line of sight.
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Funny. I've made the exact same argument before, but simply because I didn't list exactly what killer buffs I'd make, I was dismissed. So now I'm demanding the same, or else I'm not willing to hear him out.
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2nd chances shouldn't even exist in the first place and most of survivor perks are passives, while killers have to earn theirs.
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If ants evolved to be 1% bigger, they too would be in the "best spot" since their creation. What's your point?
I do struggle, but my survivors are definitely better on average than most of the survivors people on these forums seem to face. I'll have a stressless game maybe 1/4 of the time at best. I notice that matches where I don't tunnel or 2-hook, or there's a boon(s) or a Dead Hard(s) present, I usually don't win. That's just a fact of life for killers, being at the mercy of survivors bringing weak stuff vs strong stuff. Survivors can suck at chase if they're efficient on gens. They can suck on gens if they're good in chase. If they're good at neither you've got a good chance of winning, but if they're good at both there's no chance of winning. Not even going to talk about SWF, which has obvious and crazy advantages over the killer.
The meta for killer against the best survivors is Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out, because they're the only guaranteed slowdown that don't require constant downs. The best survivors pretty much don't go down. So while Pop and Jolt are great and all (against survivors who constantly go down), they don't do much to this breed of survivors. They also show you how much potential the "killer sided" maps have for survivor. I rarely have an easy match on Dead Dawg for example, because they just mindlessly run to main building every time they're hit. I started experimenting with Enduring/Brutal/Bamboozle, to get the stupid pallets and windows out of the way, but to no avail against good survivors. Can't JUST 3-gen the survivors either, because they'll simultaneously be trying to split the map. Can't SIMPLY tunnel or camp someone out, because it's not as if they're giving out hits for free, and then they'll get body blocked or hide out the rest of the game, meanwhile gens are still going.
What's insane is how y'all don't see this. I'm honestly envious of you, that you either don't get these survivors or you find playing Nurse and Blight 24/7 fun. 90% of the killer cast is not in THAT good of a spot if you haven't noticed, stats be damned. Killer has a lack of skill expression, because basically everything they can do in chase gets trumped, brushed off, or made meaningless by gen speed.
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Only DH should not exist in the 1st place.
Survivors dont deserve free escape, but they deserve to have fun. Tunneling / camping rob the fun. Thats why BT, DS are a must for lower skill survivors to able to have fun.
Its great players can make abuse of it. But DS already fixed with disable in end game & by actions, only BT needs to have collision removed.
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I get beaten all the time, I just don't make excuses for making mistakes. What super secret group of survivors are you talking about? You verse the same people everyone else does. Its been confirmed MMR is a pool with a cutoff to keep new players vsing new players. The rest are chucked into the mix with everyone else to help with queue times.
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survivors getting kindred without the killer aura, killer being too close to a hook (whatever basement to shack doorways distance is) for like 10 seconds should pause the hook timer until the killer leaves that distance for 15 seconds, maybe seeing survivors within like 12m of them at all times too would give survivors good info to help with things like going second state first hook, being able to avoid running the killer to gens being done (12m im pretty sure is just outside the range that the killer would be able to hear it, thats my idea behind that) and also camping would be stupid, without punishing proxying to secure second state/kill
then killer buffs should be stuff like no more god pallets or super safe pallets you can technically be hit at but its realistically impossible, having less pallets per map so you cant comp drop everything to win, removing god vaults and super safe vaults, making breakable walls more than just "break this so its not a god loop" so it can be an interesting feature, reworking maps so they have consistent sizes and gen spread (instead of red forest pretty much being 3 wreckers yards), making it so you cant see killers red light through walls, allowing killers to not look through a 70x zoom sniper scope, and if they do all of this then they should remove bloodlust since maps and tiles should be at least a little balanced
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Why would I play anything else but blight? Most skill expressive killer and the most fun, he just happens to be really good as well. I mained 6 killer's over half a year before landing on blight, nothing else even feels fun compared to him in this video game. I do agree though, most of the killer's in this game are still weak. It's just solo queue combined with eruption and how bad most player's are in this game make those lower tier killer's playable.
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I don’t think solo queue getting something like VC warrants a killer buff.
I don’t understand why this always comes up when solo queue gets brought up. They are not trying to bring solos to “SWF level” they are trying to give them a feature they should have already had.
If you were talking about 2016 where killers had little to no idea where survivors were other than via BBQ sure. It is now 2022 that is no longer an issue. In fact immersion is pretty much a very minimal strat today which is also the reason it is hated amongst those who do it excessively.
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This is not entirely true.
If you are an experienced player (meaning you have had a chance to understand how to read plays and also an idea of where other survivors are) you don’t need someone to be in a chase to start or commit to a gen. In fact this is actually the opposite of what they should be doing and what SWF teams don’t do. They will work on gens even in the killer’s face because they understand how bouncing aggro works.
In other words, if a killer is chasing an injured person by placing yourself nearby on a gen, it pressures the killer to have to make a choice. Either commit to the injured OR come for you (a fresh and healthy survivor).
I don’t believe that comms are doing all the work. Does it help in many cases? Absolutely. In the end the survivor is gonna have to also do what must be done. If that means take a down so the gen is completed, they will.
I would say coordination and reliability is why SWF are successful not because they receive information. At least not most of the time from my experience.
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When camping and tunneling exists, those things need to be addressed instead of putting a bandaid over them like with most of things in this game
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Because of how efficient they would immediately become. Simple example: how often do you see multiple people get off a gen to go for a save when you're hooked? Swf are much stronger than most killers rn.
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They should have VC right now, because if anything they (solo survivors) are in nerfed status right now.
As for SWF being ‘stronger’ than killer, Stats show otherwise.
Even in high MMR @ the top 5% you have Trapper (the lowest one) averaging a 56% kill rate.
So I wouldn’t categorize that as being stronger than killer.
Killers got buffs and solo queue survivors remained the same in terms of information. So I am just confused when you say that because solos could get some form of feature that it inevitably means killer should get buffed. When you just got buffs and nobody questioned why survivors only got a bone thrown at them (10s BT). Doesn’t make much sense.
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I don't think they ever released stats for swf. Killers also got rebalanced not buffed. Their perks were changed in exchange for gen, pallet break and recovery speeds. Also the stats don't take in consideration suicides or survivors doing nothing because they have a challenge.
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I always said. Start with a just little gen and chase icon next to the portrait of survivor, so, every survivor will know whos in chasing or doing gens, just 2 icons in the hud, if statistics will be better, Stop, no? increase for healing, doing totem, and whatever else action icon. SoloQ just need information about teammates. For example. I needed pass through entire map for pinhead box, I stopped do gen for that, and when I got there, other teammate was there too. Only. If he was see gen icon next to my portrait, he go to the box and i still doing gen.
If anyone be in the hook and other survivor being chased and the thrid survivor doing gen. OK, I know I need to save the first. Just
Doing gen and Chasing icons, these 2 guys will make soloQ life so much better already.
OBVIOUSLY. Killer doesnt see theses icons
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Right, so your survivors get away with running Plunderer's and crap, and running around in circles waiting for the killer to chase them?
Look at this:
Not once was I in a position to tunnel or camp. Almost slugged 3 of them and pushed the 4th out too, but then 1 of 3 slugs got picked up and looped a single fence at Yamaoka's main building for like 10 seconds(?) because survivors move so fast and cut obstacles so tight, giving them enough time to get picked up, body block, and all get out. 2-3 Dead Hards, at least 1 Adrenaline as I'm about to down someone, and 1 was following with flashlight half the match, so after downing 1 I had to down a second, which lets them get picked up. Boons my hexes too so I never once got Pentimento. Looped the single rock loop by main building for like 45 seconds TWICE, with flashlighter/body blocker saving when they actually did make a wrong read for once. "Oh, but you're playing Wraith with purple add-ons." Wraith sucks, and his best add-ons don't change a thing. Unresponsive console controls as well. You try dealing with this under similar circumstances and see how well you do. Nobody could mentally withstand the average frustration I experience but me. You'd have to not care at all.
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And do you implement a translator, too? Because here in europe, i got a lot of guys that just don´t talk english, in case of the many russians
don´t even uses letters i can read, so voice chat would do nothing at all. So balancing just for people who share the same language is not a good choice if you want to sell globaly.
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But that's what I'm saying. They're not playable against survivors who know how to play. It's easy for people, like yourself, to play like 5 killers and say the game is fine. It's a different story to try and make Wraith, Pig, Freddy, Demogorgon, and weak killers like that work. Especially on console. It honestly feels like I'm the only one on these forums who does this. Because everyone is like, "Use any amount of gen defense and still lose, skill issue. Can't get at least 2k with Pig, skill issue. Lose a match that lasts at least 8 minutes, skill issue." Different games, clearly.
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It really doesn’t matter what stats look like for SWF. This is encompassing all survivors across the board.
Since it is obvious they go by kill rates to buff something and not by who got which buff, buffing killer again simply because solo survivors get essentially “comms” doesn’t make any sense.
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So you are saying 4 randoms will perform just as good as swf? Also the game isn't balanced around swf. If it was balanced around swf, solos would be unplayable. But once you give solos the same tools as swf, you can balance around that. And the reason is to make solo less a frustrating experience and the game more balanced
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