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Nurse recharge tokens
Shouldn't nurse recharge only start after the fatigue ends?
It's weird that they added the recharge mechanic, but yet just feels like its not even there sometimes.
Comments
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Exactly. No reason why it should be as fast as it is with how game breaking blinks are. They should make it like weskers charges, like 6-8 seconds per charge. Would actually give some penalty to missing her blinks.
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i know that recharge can't be too long, she is slower than survivors, but maybe fatigue should actually be a cooldown and not recharge almost all blinks after she is out of it.
Thats why i am asking if the recharge should start after the fatigue ends
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In short: She would probably not be able to gain distance on the survivor anymore if you change her base numbers too much... But give me a few minutes I'll do the math for you...
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2 seconds of holding the blink while going 2.89m/s ; 1.5 seconds of travelling 13.33 m/s ; 1.5 seconds of chain blink window 1.54m/s 2 seconds of fatigue 0.96m/s and then 3 seconds of normal movementspeed so 3.85m/s (to recharge her blink)
so the whole process takes like 10 seconds and you travel a total of 41,56m Which would be less than 4.2m/s... Congrats Nurse is now slower than Myers in t1... I hope that answers your question...
Nurse already is not that much faster than the survivor... By giving her an additional 3 seconds instead of just 1 second extra looses her a lot of distance...
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Another whining about nurse post ? Hoooooly
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Maybe if we buff some of the speeds so she looses less distance. Just give survivors some down time where she can't use her power. Maybe reducing the fatigue time or increasing her move speed while in fatigue.
I know that she cant like have wesker recharge time, but maybe a middle ground where she keeps the pressure while giving the power more down time.
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For example, when they changed deathslinger to make his power more loopable but reduced his cooldowns and sped him up to compensate.
Maybe something in that direction could be done with nurse, if she ever gets a rework/changes
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The issue is during her fatigue + recharge alone you will get away at least 15m as survivors from the destination of her blink, when we imagine her blinking right on top of you but not hitting... Changing her movementspeed while holding the blink or during fatigue does not seem adaquate... During fatigue you're not supposed to know exactly where the survivors go... So you generally don't move that much anyway and just try to hear where the are running to... And I really don't like the idea of changing her ms while holding the blink... It is decreased by less than 1m/s compared to her base ms... Buffing that might lead people to just hold the blink more often while looking out for someone instead of only charging it when you have an idea of where people are... I just thought about buffing her ms while blink is recharging... But that should not get higher than 4.0 m/s... makes no sense on the lore side things and and negates her downside... Only applying that buff after double blink also makes no sense as the 2nd blink is not used to gain distance but only to get the hit :/
I mean you already have 4.5 seconds to get away from her at least... Even more if she double blinked... I think that is enough downtime... I really do think her base stats are in a good spot. It is already punishing to miss a blink as it takes her ages to catch up.
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So, using your values i believe that right now, she travels basically at 4,2325 m/s now live.
So if you make the recharge happen after the fatigue, but make her faster while charging blink or in the chain window or in fatigue, so she keeps the same distance but give survivors more time without her being able to teleport.
It would also help against the snowball potencial of nurse as she wouldn't be able to chain hits through an entire team so quickly.
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I think her power has to much up time.
I don't play nurse, so i am not the most qualified whatsoever. But i think that the amount of snowball she can do because of her power, that is the strongest in the game, while basically not having cooldown.
But again nurse is a really hard killer to discuss.
I was thinking of speed him up her charging blink and fatigue movement speed, not the base speed
But thanks for the comment and information, i really didn't think about those issues.
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What I don't understand about what you just said is... You want to give survivors more time... But without them gaining more distance... is that correct? So what would more time even do for them? Going back to my example from before... You have 4.5 seconds until she can beginn to charge her blink again... max charging blink takes another 1.5 seconds... so we are at 6 seconds now... If you didn't find a line of sight blocker within the 24 m of distance ... What would you say is an adaquate time for survivors? 7 ? 8 ? 9? Just roughly... To be honest I think 5-6 seconds is a lot of time in this game...
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She could literally never catch a survivor pressing W lol
Nurse needs to be looked at but this is definitely not the solution
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The strongest power in the game is widely considered to be Oni's Demon Form... But I would also agree that nurse is one of the strongest.
I started playing Nurse at the beginning of the year for a few months quite consistantly almost always playing without addons and I can tell you it is so rough... I'm still not a good Nurse and would rather consider myself on the lower half of the scale... Missing a blink completely makes you basically abandon the chase as you will take forever to catch up again also when survivors are rather far away from you they can quite easily loose you by walking and taking cover... You just don't have the time to look for them for long... Recharge and Fatigue Addons make it a whole lot easier and missing the blink not that punishing...
I generally think you should earn the distance and downtime from nurse... When you juke her and she misses her blink by a lot you basically won... she will take like 30-40 seconds to catch up again especially when you manage to loose line of sight after that... And by catching up I mean being in range to possibly hit the blink again... Basekit Nurse is completely fine in my opinion... The range addons are problematic however since getting distance after loosing line of sight is the main counterplay and those addons make that basically impossible... But then again I don't play with range addons, since I don't want them to mess with my muscle memory...
When we consider a nerf for nurse I would either tune down some of her addons and maybe make it so exposed perks don't work on her... On a sidenote here... (an egoistic one to be honest) I would be fine with the Blinks are special attacks thing... But I really don't want to change my build from Sloppy and Jolt... I don't think those perks are on the top but they allow me to just chase and not kick gens... Which is the fun part about the game... And those two not working anymore would basically force me to run other stuff... Plaything Pentimento or sth. else... Don't know yet... But since exposed is the main issue on Nurse I don't think we should get rid of the possibility of those rahter less oppressive perks on nurse...
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Another side note... I just had a funny thought about changing her movespeed in the chainblink window... So she basically missed her blink and is not in hit range, but is so fast she can catch up in those 1.5 seconds and just hit you anyway... That would be really ridiculous and unfun... But a funny thing to imagine ^^
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Well, others killers give you way more time to not have to deal with their powers while also not going through walls. Blight is 10 seconds and wesker is 12 seconds, while nurse is 6. Also the recharge add-ons turn that number into 4. So yeah, i think the power has too much up-time. I dont mind the distance you get from her missing. I mind the fact that she can use her power all the time tho.
Again i know she needs to use it for movement because she is 3.85. But things could tweaked while keeping her identity.
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Sure, Demon form Oni is strong, but nurse has her power all time, but yes.
I also agree that her blink attack should be special atks, but a lot of people hate nurse, even if she is not using those nasty exposed builds.
Maybe the problems are in her add-ons and not in the base kit. Her recharge and range add-ons are crazy.
So maybe she would need an add-on pass and just change the sp. Atk.
I admit, i dont like playing nurse, i am not an expert, thats why i asked if the recharge timer could be a thing to be looked at.
Again, i didn't knew how much she moved while using her power, i only knew the range of her blinks.
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Opinions on the nerf regarding nurses vary, but it is certainly a good thing to focus on recharge.
If a blink attack misses, you can still recharge quickly, but if it hits, you can recharge after the dizziness ends. I don't think giving the survivor a chance to buy time is a bad idea.
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Nurse does not need a nerf... Starstruck does.
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Blight has 10 seconds for all his 5 tokens... You probably won't use all tokens all the time...
If Nurse misses an attack after the blink it adds an additional second to her fatigue... I think you can already gain quite a lot of distance during that time, especially when prolonged by the blink attack penalty... I do think her penalty for missing a blink is quite hard already when we compare it to other killers and how much distance they will still gain on you without their ability... Nurse however looses distance when she cannot blink... The survivor can buy time all the time... that's the whole point of her counterplay... Like said before If you miss a blink by like 6-7m and the survivor just runs in a straight line away from you.. You move barely above 4.2m/s on average... How long do you want it to take to catch up? Other killers are not punished as much for missing their power... They can still catch up even without it and even get a hit if they mindgame properly... Nurse cannot and therefore I think it is rather fair what her basekit provides...
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I mean duh, of course you can only try to get distance, since loops dont work against her, you need distance and line of sigh blockers so she has to mind game, thats the entire point.
The problem is not base nurse, but what you can do with add-ons that remove all your weakness, recharge and range. Adding an power that ignores loops and allows her to always be on top of survivors and combined with exposed and location perks, lets not forget when they nerfed a perk because of nurse only.
If her power was to have less up time, she would need a full rework, which we dont even know if the devs want to that
Somethings should be done, maybe the add-ons, maybe the blink atks, maybe a full rework. Or maybe the devs think she is fine or needs buffs
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If it were up to me, I'd just remove her recharge add-ons and make her lose her power's tokens when stunned. Nurse without recharge and range is still extremely strong but not without counterplay, and you can actually gain distance against her.
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Such a bad take
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yeah but you do that and you suddenly enforce even more of a range recharge meta with her.
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I would not entirely remove them, but make them weaker, since she kind of struggles against just holding w without those addons... And I think she would probably loose her Nr. 1 Killer spot against (at least) MDR Spirit without those addons and Blight with strong addons as well... I think we could remove one one the range addon and give her one with 25% as a purple or 15% as a green, but not both... And then do the same with recharge... Give her 15 % as green and maybe 10/8 % as a yellow and then come up with other ideas for her addons... There is one purple that when you press a button after blinking brings you back to your original spot... I would like some more addons like that... Those who don't just increase or decrease numbers but actually do give you something else...
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Yeah, but obviously range and recharge aren't going to be things anymore when her balance pass comes around. They're way, WAY too strong compared to all of her others on the strongest killer in the game. Having blinks be so readily available is dumb, plain and simple.
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thats completely throwing out the window the fact that she doesn't give a damn about the terrain for movement
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Yes it does, but then again you can just run in a straight line and it is not much of an advantage anymore... Basically any map gives you a corridor to just walk along from one side of the map to the other side... And it takes ages to catch up... You basically only start looping as soon as you're in range of her blink... Unless you just want to go stealth before she can even reach you... Besides RPD I cannot think of a map where this is not a thing you can do... at that point you don't even need to care about line of sight blockers... As she is gonna take 30-40 seconds anyway just to catch up... Even the game basically gives you somewhat of a more or less straight corridor to run from one side to the other...
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If its taking you 30-40 seconds to catch up to a Survivor as Nurse.. I'm sorry but you're doing something wrong
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Is that so? I don't think so.
I wrote that the penalty for a failed blink attack should remain as it is now.
I wrote that the recharge for a successful blink attack should be longer. The dizzy time should remain as it is now and the recharge should start when the dizzy ends.
Why should the recharge for a successful blink attack be longer? My thoughts are the opposite of yours. I believe that we should give the survivor more possibilities to buy time.
You believe that the penalty for a failed nurse blink is too great. While that may be true, it should be reasonable in relation to the ability of Blink itself to ignore all pallets, windows, and walls. And currently, the recharge is so fast that you can challenge the blink instantly in succession, regardless of whether the blink attack succeeds or fails.
Yes, the nurse is slow. As an alternative, it is given the strongest ability in DbD. The nurse's way of playing is to hit the blink attack without missing.
If the nurse is slower than the survivor, and you are 7~8 meters away, do a blink instead of just walking.
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You gain roughly 20cm/s on the survivor when he is running in a straight line... during 30 seconds that would add up to 6 m of distance... So no, I don't think you're doing something wrong... But you seem to overestimate the distance you gain with the whole blinking process and fatigue afterwards...
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I don't necessarily think the penalty is too great, I think it is in an ok spot but can be rough sometimes... Changing her basekit in that way will just make her more addon dependant... The 7-8 m thing is more like the distance until you get in blink range than the actual distance to the survivor...
About the change to the blink attack penalty... So we are on the same page here that the blink attack means swinging and either hitting the survivor or missing, right?
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and you seem to overestimate the amount of spaces that actually have a long corridor with 0 obstacles in the way that a Survivor would have to run around, that a Nurse would simply blink over
Also if you're catching up to a Survivor, you're doing 1 blink which gains you 20m, not both. Not only does this reduce the fatigue time but also gives you a 2nd blink for once you do catch up. So instead of roughly 32m every 6 or so seconds, its 20 meters every 3 seconds. This isn't even counting recharge add ons which make this go even faster
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I don't think I overestimate it... give me one map and we check out if there is not at least a few corridors in it where you can just straight up hold w...
The math I did was for only one blink I think... If I'm incorrect please point it out more precise.... And yes I didn't do the math with addons, which I also stated that I did it only for basekit.. Since I did it basically to show how fast she gains distance to reach a position from where she can blink and hit the survivor...
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I apologize for my lack of words.
Blink attack: refers to swinging after blinking.
One of my thoughts is that the recharge if this hits the survivor should start after the dizzy ends.
If the swing fails to hit the survivor, the recharge can be started while dizzy as before.
Also, if you did not swing, a quick recharge is fine as well.
In my opinion, it would be good to differentiate between the three in terms of the speed of the recharge.
Blink no swing>blink swing no hit>blink swing hit.
This is a bit contradictory, but it increases the penalty for a blink attack hit.
I am sorry if there are parts I don't understand as I am using automatic translation while speaking.
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I mean we can use the map which is normally used during comp games for Nurse, Coal Tower. Watch a few comp games and very rarely will you see a Survivor just run in a straight line for 30-40 seconds.
Like I can see where you're coming from, on paper it seems as if she wouldn't gain as much distance. But in reality its far from the case.
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It's fine... In that case depending on how much it could be somewhat reasonable... But I really would not want to overdo it...
Comp games really do not fit when we talk about basekit Nurse, with addons, as already admitted she has far less problems getting distance... I agree however that coal tower is a great map, however it is also a very small map.. And I don't think we need to rebalance Nurse for a comp setting, as she is probably quite balanced for that matter... (With certain restrictions to addons... But then again survivor perks and addons also get restricted most of the time as far as I know..)
According to the wiki it is even the smallest or second smallest map in the game... Midwich is smaller by quite a lot...
I admit you cannot run for 30 seconds to reach the other side of the map, as it is really small... However there can still be scenarios when going edgemap where you will make a lot of distance and addonless Nurse will take some time to catch up... And I find it to be an overall very fair and balanced map... Even against Nurse, many high structures and the main main building make loosing line of sight quite possible...
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And how is that? Nurse herself is not broken at all, even her range-addons got nerfed.
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