Prevent SWFs or give Survivors voice chat and buff killers.
inb4 "salty killer main! waaah"
Just think about it.
BHVR has said they don't balance the game/perks for SWF's, they balance around 4 solo players. Right?
Everyone knows the 4 man SWF experience is worlds different than 4 solos. Even ignoring the fact that they can coordinate their offerings and perks to let 3 players get value from a perk they don't have, ignoring that entirely; basic communication is worth more than 16 perks.
Everyone always knowing when a killer has dropped chase, which direction he's going, what perks you've seen he has, when and where it's safe to heal, etc etc, all of that is worth more than any value you could get from your 4 perks.
That's night and day compared to players who have no communication with one another aside from info perks.
So why is that allowed? That massively imbalanced experience is permitted alongside a normal 4 solos team?
Obviously I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play with their friends.
I'm saying that changes to solo survivor are desperately needed, and equally as desperately needed is some sort of buff to killers vs SWFs to compensate for how much more difficult that is.
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"BHVR has said they don't balance the game/perks for SWF's, they balance around 4 solo players. Right?"
Pretty sure they've said they balance with both in mind.
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All you need is a solo Q buff and a killer buff, but you have to do it carefully.
When you give a solo Q too much information, it becomes monotonous with no tension or surprises.
Enhancing the killer makes escape in solo Q impossible and DbD fades.
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They can't add voice comms because they have no way of moderating the tidal wave of toxicity and harassment that would follow - they don't have match logs, after all.
They can't tell killers a SWF is in the lobby because most killers would dodge or equip megasweat builds that your average casual friend group can't handle, and those players would grow to hate the game.
And they can't prevent SWF because it'd turn away a huge portion of their playerbase.
I've always said they needed to buff solo and then buff killers to match. They just buffed killers, so now I'm waiting on the solo queue QOL to follow up on that. Icons to show what every player is doing would be a great start. Nothing will ever match true comms, but a scroll wheel with preset lines (and a cooldown so players can't spam at each other) would help very well for being able to call when you're going for the save or tell your teammates your intentions (like if someone is self-caring, being able to say "I Have Botany Knowledge" would be a much more effective way of getting them to stop than just tbagging and spamming emotes.)
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Voice comms would range from toxic to useless and would probably kill the game if they balance around them (cause you'd be at a disadvantage for leaving voice chat when little Timmy screams bloody murder). Then you also have regions where English isn't as widely spoken. I'm from EU and I get matched with a lot of Russians for example, and their level of English knowledge is way lower than for example someone from The Netherlands or Germany. So it probably wouldn't even do anything most of the time.
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These are pretty tired arguments against solo q. People are toxic anyway but in my experience I get way more wholesome interactions on dbd with dms. There will be some toxicity obviously but a lot of people will use comms properly. It's not really a valid reason. Like lets get rid of endgame chat and give everyone anonymous mode to stop people's feelings getting hurt. No. that's mute buttons are easy to use and there will always be a disable voice comms button.
Like now that I think about it, endgame is a real stupid idea. So let all the players communicate at the end of a game when players are likely to be at their most frustrated.
Plus VC would be for survivors only, I can count on one hand the number of toxic interactions I've had with fellow survivors.
I can't think of a multiplayer game except dark souls that doesn't have integral voice comms. It's just basic QoL. And would improve solo q experience for survivors massively. Which is necessary, wonder how many potential players got scared away during this freeplay weekend by how punishing the survivor game is for new players?
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It'd have to be integral VC. There's no way to stop players using discord and other chat apps while playing.
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Sure a lot of people will use comms properly, but toxicity will also be very prevalent. Disabling voice comms is what I'm concerned about, cause this game is pretty much balanced around survivors making mistakes, which happens more frequently without comms and in solo queue. So if they add voice comms, they'd have to make some balancing changes, most likely making killers stronger which means comms are more and more necessary. Opting out of them would put you at a disadvantage and it's a lose lose situation if you have toxic teammates.
I can guarantee it that the reason why your toxic interactions with players in this game are so low is BECAUSE there is no voice comms. Add VC and you'll be on the receiving end of a lot more toxicity and abuse :)
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Ever thought about that your personal experiences are not representative for the whole community? I had lots of toxic fellow teammates. Also, since i am in Europe, lots of people i dont share a language with.
But if you build balance around communication, you put everyone at a disadvantage that can´t use said communication due to language-barriers.
The better way in my opinion would be seperating swf and solo queue, and balance both seperatly, one with comm, one without.
Killers would not need to dodge swf, because their power level would have been adjusted for their advantage, while solo queue would have surviors buffed and/or killers nerfed.
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I do not believe that toxicity from VC would be bad enough to counteract how it would improve the game. It will be present for sure, you will always get that with Online gaming and VC. But no game I have ever played, and I have played a LOT of different games, has the toxicity been bad enough to cause a real problem. You'll always get ######### but they are not the majority. Plus with reporting functions players who are really toxic will get banned.
As for balancing they could just add VC, see how it affects the killrates and balance based around that.
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This discussion again
Enormous bruh moment indeed
(sorry for being condescending here but this is brought up way too often)
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I dont get why people say voice chat is not possible because of toxic team mates. I mean games like valo are playable with voice chat. So why shouldnt be dbd playable with voice. I even think the dbd Player base is much older then the valo Player base. In my opinion everything what you said would make the game much better.
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Perhaps it's brought up so often because VC is such a basic feature of social online gaming that it is a glaring omission to not include it.
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As long as it’s not turned on on default or actually used for balancing I wouldn’t be against it. Otherwise there are WAY too much reasons against it and a ping system would make way more sense (in any way tbh)
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A ping system would be good but VC is preferable. And those many reasons against? Toxicity and potential balance issues? That's about it.
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That’s about it? We are talking about rendering random soloq becoming completely unplayable if they are balancing with coordinated voice comma in mind..
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Like i mentioned in a previous post. Add the VC, see how it affects killrates over a week or so, maybe a month then balance around that if needed. It's a weird point because making some solo q games unplayable is better than making almost all of them unplayable as it is presently
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Toxicity in unlimited forms (racial, sexist, religion, casual slurs, life threatening, the list goes on), language barriers, audio quality (lots of people don't have mic, or have just built-in version that picks up output from game), overall sound quality (endless echo, hearing chase from other survivors, being too loud or too quiet, ppl ear ######### you). And to not forget - some people don't like to speak with others - but you indirectly force them to.
One additional note. Most swf are not able to communicate effectively. Lots of people can't even explain where they are. Being in swf does not even means being on comms. I am 100% possitive, that for most their 4 perks are much much more then voice communication.
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Literally every game has that issue. It's not enough of a reason to deny VC in a game. There are games FAR more toxic than dbd with voice chat. Mute buttons for disruptive noises and toxic people, plus reporting so people being racist/sexist etc will be banned. I personally don't want to listen to anyone be racist etc so when I'm playing an online game, if i come across someone like that I simply mute them. I don't see what is so hard about this.
And just because a someone in a swf can't call out exactly where they are doesn't mean VC wouldn't be useful. Relaying when the killer is chasing them, sussing out the killers perks, basic mechanical advice for new players, calling for distractions or unhooks, warning when killer is camping or tunneling, calling locations of gens with progress, exit gates etc. It would be amazingly useful. Especially to new players, it would help them learn faster and pick up the basics so they don't get windmill slammed onto hooks constantly.
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Ping system provides 70% benefit with 5% of negatives (you can still be toxic/annoying to very limited degree with pings). Also pings are useful QOL even for SWF (1-2 button clicks might be faster then saying stuff). I would certainly start with those instead of expanding team who would evaluate ban reports.
Also my reply was a bit more answer to 1st post that said comms are better then all survivor perks combined. It most definitelly is not for most survivors as they can't use comms to their full value (and also best survivors can digest hints into better information then what average swf can relay to each other - because average swf can misinform a lot too).
Sure enough free voice chat might be better for teaching beginners stuff about game. But this same thing can be also annoying at the same time ("stop telling me what to do all the time and let me play the game").
To sum up - voice chat can bring too many problems BHVR might be not equipped to tackle properly. While ping system solves most of the same problems to lesser degree without causing majority of problems. I don't see any proper reason why anybody would not start with ping system and hud-action indicator before in-game voice comms.
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Solo queue is not going to get voice comms. That only opens floodgates to harassment and bigotry all just because someone wasn't saved from being camped. Sure it's an extreme and there could be some wholesome gamers who genuinely can be nice, but then there are others who would just use it to troll and be dickheads because that's how they get their kicks.
SWF isn't an easy win either, unless all 4 are extremely cracked at DbD. I've played some nights with a few friends, two are new and 1 is more experienced than I am, and we haven't had games where we completely curb stomped the killer into submission, had moments where we all died together even.
Even disregarding the toxic nature of people, voice comms would definitely kill a lot of information perks in the game. Everyone would pretty much have a free Kindred, a free Wiretap, any perk that helps to tell you where people are at and who's doing what.
Post edited by Gcarrara on1 -
I'd still prefer voice chat but I do see your point. Ping system would be invaluable for mid mmr solo q matches.
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