Unbreakable Basekit? Did it get scrapped?

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Just curious what happened, I remember it was on the PTB for a while, then nothing happened, and now we have a brand new PTB with other content?

Or is it apart of it? I haven't been paying too much attention, so just wanted to ask.

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  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,683
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    Probably not. If I had to guess we'll see more on that story in the next midchapter

  • 6659Leg
    6659Leg Member Posts: 102
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    It should be gone but unfortunately that patch was more or less an alpha. They're still testing it and such,same with the mori system.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 970
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    You say cleanup, I say an issue with how a slugged survivor is a pseudo Hook and a lack of meaningful "forfeit" with a Hatch mechanic that isn't just tied around being the Last Standing. (And I can't remember if when a Survivor is Last Standing, the Hatch opens or not, with the Mori Rework system, if not, like #########.)

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    Hatch opens in the Last Standing system same as always if only one survivor is alive.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    I never once saw a game from the PTB where Last Standing caused a killer to win a match they weren’t going to win without it.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,896
    edited November 2022
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    Okay, but how many times have you seen something in live where Last Standing would have prevented it? I can't even count the number of times I've been left slugged and managed to reach the hatch, and that's just one possibility out of a dozen. PTB games aren't necessarily the best examples of gameplay because most players are trying out new things specifically.

    To say nothing of losing my slug races and photobombs. What is the actual point of Ghostface's mori if a Kate can't run up and insert herself into the selfie?

    I just think the whole update was way too disruptive to gameplay to facilitate a pointless and unnecessary change that didn't actually improve anything.

  • Mat_Sella
    Mat_Sella Member Posts: 3,546
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    pointless and unecessary? didnt improve anything?

    Ending games is faster, less toxicity is possible, more healthy gameplay is achieved by promoting hooks over extended slugging.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    I’ve seen a few games where one person escaped after using Unbreakable after everybody else was down. They’re not common at all and I’ve never seen a game that the survivors actually won after everybody was downed.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    • I couldn’t care less about slug races and photobombs
    • I’ve maybe seen a handful of times when everybody is downed and someone gets hatch. It’s very uncommon and I’d most definitely be totally happy sacrificing that to get rid of endgame cleanup in up to 1/3 to 1/2 of games where the killer clearly won.
  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,292
    edited November 2022
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    I've said as well that letting survivors bleed themselves out would be a better solution to the 'two survivors left, keep one slugged to prevent Hatch'. I even have a build I meme around to mess up that strategy or any 4 person slug strategies (Low Profile, Unbreakable, WGLF) which would be pointless with the new changes and Deliverance has helped me turn a 4 survivor down situation to a 1 to 3E in different matches.

    Sure, they're rare but it's kind of like getting a halfway across map down with Huntress. It doesn't happen often but it's so much fun when it does. The proposed change to Moris stops that and encourages more no hook playstyles most likely involving Starstruck and any Killer with high mobility and/or a large TR.

    In a situation where there is only one person standing (or no people) just give the slugged survivors the option to bleed themselves out and there is no need for a Last Man Standing/basekit UB system.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    Why does your “lighthearted stuff” have to “wreck the game” for people playing normally? And I’m not alone in my opinion either.

    And no, I’m 100% positive you are greatly overestimating how often last survivor standing hatch escapes actually happen. I guarantee if you went through a large sample of streamed games you would find only a small percentage of them where it happened.

  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
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    They should not punish the player for lying down being forgotten by the killer. They should heal rather then suicide. If the killer leaves them like that than the killer should accept the risk for it. The person might get up and escape or heal themselves. The killer profits/is rewarded for skilled downing by hooking them. If he choses not to , than he loses his privilege for being skilled enough to down that player and the player should have the next move. Even when downed the player is still an active player in the match , they should not be held hostage on the ground so the killer can max the points. The killer abuses the hatch system by bypassing it completely if one player is slugged. Just hook the player and play the hatch game with the remaining person. It is not the end of the world if one manages to find the hatch first. It literally the next stage of the match that is meant to happen.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,292
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    No, they should bleed themselves out. It's a better option than killing UB and Deliverance plays which would negatively affect more people.

  • James4125
    James4125 Member Posts: 266
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    With any luck they scrapped the idea completely but this is BHVR and they don't scrap stupid ideas they double down on them instead.

  • deckyr
    deckyr Member Posts: 752
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  • FreddyVoorhees
    FreddyVoorhees Member Posts: 324
    edited November 2022
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    Over 40s is still a nice chunk of time to slug a person and use strategies. If someone brings UB , they would have gotten up anyway if slugged. No harm done. Even if it is increased to 60s , the killer has no excuse for being a whole minute away from someone who needs to be hooked. They should make it that the survivor who is recovering should not be able to move unless that is already a thing. That way they will not cross the whole map and then get up.

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437
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    But far more importantly there were tons of games where the survivors won because slugging was effectively deleted as an option for killers.

    Without the option to slug it is incredibly difficult to create pressure when the survivors are efficient.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 1,796
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    This is probably not far off the truth, as I suspect a form of monetisation is going to be different custom Moris as they cant keep adding killers/survivors/perks indefinitely as their business model. We are already at the point where there are just too many killers and perks on both sides as it is.

    I am not against it and I hate being slugged for the 4k so anything that removes that boring tactic is great by me. They can always make adjustments as they go too

  • Marik1987
    Marik1987 Member Posts: 1,700
    edited November 2022
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    With UB its the half. It should only work in the endgame to prevent the timewasting slug to secure the 4K. Killers need to learn that 3K is a win and u can get much more points in a new match than searching around for ages.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    • When you are arguing that the new system shouldn't be in place because it prevents "lighthearted stuff" then your "stuff" is in fact making the endgame worse by not allowing the newer system to be implemented. When you force a choice between shortening boring endgames by a minute or more and the lack of slug races and photobombs then, yes, your photobombs and slug races are wrecking the endgame compared to what it could be.
    • No, someone escaping after everybody is already downed is rare. You're greatly overestimating how often as a percentage of games people escape after everybody else is downed. I guarantee if you actually take a survey of random published games it only happens a small fraction of the time. And I'm not convinced you don't gain as many intense scenarios with the new system as you lose.
    • As far as Unbreakable, etc, goes, I did address it, I said above and before that they will probably need to adjust the speed bonus on Unbreakable. The base game 45 seconds revive might be ok as is, if it could use a tweak it would just be a small increase. (Personally I think No Mither and Unbreakable should have their bonuses swapped, so No Mither becomes a 75%+ recovery speed increase while Unbreakable is a 25% increase. It just makes more sense for the perk with the huge disadvantage to have the significantly bigger bonus.)


  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    The issues with slugging mainly revolved around Unbreakable probably needing its speed bonus toned down. If it were up to me I'd swap Unbreakable and No Mither, making Unbreakable maybe a 25% bonus and No Mither a 75%+ bonus to recovery.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,896
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    We're going to have to agree to disagree on what being able to end the game in 7 seconds versus 45 seconds is worth (because again, bleeding out randos doesn't count when it's so easy to fix this problem without breaking everything else.) And getting rid of fun stuff is only a portion of what's wrong with the changes. You're fixating on just a portion of my argument when it contains at least three major concerns.

    Same with everything else, I think you're understating how often any of these things happen. Even if it's only once in every ten matches, that's incredibly significant.

    Even without the actual perk Unbreakable in its idiotic PTB state (which I already assumed would be changed, it was way too good and it didn't make sense that it was a straight upgrade to No Mither and Exponential), removing slugging still destroys bully counterplay or any sense of urgency/gen pressure with slugged survivors (i.e. DS). 45 seconds, or 35 or whatever the meta perk numbers end up being - it's better than 22, but it still doesn't help me if I'm in a situation I cannot pick anyone up and/or I have not managed to down anyone else. Ironically, it also makes slugging worse with killers who want the 4k no matter what, because they're just going to keep juggling the survivors until they finally manage to get them both down, and it'll take so much longer to get that part over with than before.

    I think wanting a smoother endgame when you mass slug, in light of everything else it's going to break or worsen, is pretty selfish, and I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this.

  • PB_TORCHer
    PB_TORCHer Member Posts: 317
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    As a Survivor- I’ll just leave people on the ground while I finish the gen if I know they can get up on there own. So I’ll stay busy instead of dropping everything to help. Survivors who complain about bleeding out- this will change NOTHING, The killer nodding or whatever will just stand over you and down ya again. So you’ll still get left to bleed out

    As Killer- this would be a terrible change. Slugging is a powerful strategy. This doesn’t mean it’ll stop either. I expect players to get up some how anyway if there left down too long.

    Please DEVS NEVER change the game for this. It will only be for the worse. 👆

  • PB_TORCHer
    PB_TORCHer Member Posts: 317
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    If survivors really hate bleeding out run unbreakable……nuff said

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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  • Stroggz
    Stroggz Member Posts: 498
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    It is a terrible idea and I hope it gets scrapped. ;/

  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,761
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    I can't wait for this change to go live. With some tweaks of course

  • Okonar_
    Okonar_ Member Posts: 499
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    I have the same opinion. A lot of times you need that extra pressure as killer. And its very rare to happen a slugfest during a match. If I'm being bm'ed slugged I just tab and watch a youtube video. Meanwhile the killer is there wasting time lol.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 970
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    Iiinteresting.

    Wonder if slugs can crawl out too

    Wonder, if the hatch remains visible if another survivor pops up and ends last stand, if you could, with a key, orchestrate a scenario where players intentionally go down to get the hatch to spawn, Unbreakable up, and then key out at 5-gens

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 970
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    Yeah just 45s is far too short for a base UB.

    should be a stage system or something. Can be picked up at 50% (which takes 30s to get to), and then get up at 60s.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 970
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    Slugging is a decent strat at times.

    However the issue is that if the Killer is proxying the slug, the slug doesn’t have any resources to actually get up themselves, and the Killer is reaping all the rewards of what is essentially a Hooked survivor (from an altruism trap angle), without needing to Hook them.

    That is to say, unless that Survivor has UB. Which is why UB is a meta Perk.

    This’d be all fine and dandy if being slugged wasn’t more boring than being on gens the entire match.

    You could introduce basekit Tenacity crawl speed, so survivors could better get out of the nearby area and be less able to be zoned. However that still leaves BM bleedout.

    So you introduce UB in some form. But that can be too short.

    making it too long would likely feel like a goal never reached.

    So what if it’s a hybrid?

    Rework the dying state to be something like:

    Gain increased crawl speed based on Recovery.

    Holding recovery while at the 90% cap will slowly fill the bar with a golden color. Once that reaches the cap you pick yourself up.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
    edited November 2022
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    No, the hatch appears if only one survivor is left alive, but in the new system if that survivor is downed after the hatch appears then the game ends immediately, they wouldn't be able to crawl anywhere. So they can escape if they get to the hatch before they're downed but not after.

  • Roaroftime
    Roaroftime Member Posts: 402
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    Basically it's ok to buff the entire killer base-kit and buff half their perks i.e., eruption but when survivors ask to not be slugged on the ground for 2 minutes because it;'s really boring and unhealthy for the game they don't care. They're promoting unhealthy game play and trying to make it boring for survivors probably so that more people play killer.

  • PB_TORCHer
    PB_TORCHer Member Posts: 317
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    Your gonna be slugged.

    Bring Unbreakable. We have a perk for it. It shouldn’t be given free w/o. We have 4 slots it only takes one if you hate it that much. I play red rank survivor often and it’s not that big of a issue. I almost NEVER get left to bleed out.

    ‘Also don’t go hide on the ground. Be where you can be picked up and hooked. It’s your fault being in this situation too often

  • Omans
    Omans Member Posts: 1,081
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    Very, very bad take.

    Why do you think the devs came up with this basekit Unbreakable idea? It is because slugging for the 4k happens A LOT.

    Boring. Unhealthy. Unfun.

    Whether or not basekit Unbreakable fixes the problem is hard to tell. Too early to say, but to blame survivors for being slugged so often is..yeah, not a good take.