Can we buff Reactive Healing, Solidarity and Poised?

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AMOGUS
AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
edited November 2022 in Feedback and Suggestions

These are three perks that I've been thinking about and I want them to get either buffed or, preferably, the Boil Over treatment.

Now that Sole Survivor has been buffed and has at least one or two niche uses, Poised might stand to be the worst Survivor perk in the game. Haddie's perk that lets you see other Survivor scratch marks comes very close but not quite (although I would love that changed too)


Poised causes you to lose your scratch marks whenever a gen is done. Sure, you don't have to touch said gen, a gen simply has to go off... but so what? You'd see value for this in a chase... but running itself is loud and this isn't even factoring in blood pools, aura reading or grunts of pain (which Jane is infamous for, but you can just choose not to use this perk with her). This perk gets shutdown easily by the many other ways of tracking Survivors.

What if we buffed Poised so that it at least includes running and walking sounds themselves? I don't think this is in any Survivor perk yet and it could be interesting... we could throw in grunts of pain and other info too if we wanted, plus a duration increase. More ideas are welcome.


Now, for Solidarity... this perk causes you to gain healing progression on yourself while injured if you're healing someone. The rate is around 1 heal on another person = 50% of progression on you. This is honestly another bad perk because it requires you to be injured, requires 2 heals to get an effect and there's better self-healing perks like COH. Not to mention that Hemorrhage completely destroys this perk... and it's not an uncommon status effect either.

I had seen an idea for a 1:1 heal on these forums... and I've been thinking it over. What if we went with this idea as proposed? Would it really be so broken if this was the case? We could add a gigantic cooldown or limited uses per trial if we're worried about the mythical 4 man SWF bully squad stacking it and then gg ezing Killers. Exposed or instadown Killers can shut it down, anti-chase Killers like Nurse or Blight can just do their thing and it won't matter, Legion and Plague can do their thing... M1 Killers would struggle but they can interrupt the heal or just quickly hit one of them.

At minimum, Hemorrhage shouldn't work with this perk. (Same for Jill's perk Resurgence but that's for another topic.)


Lastly, Reactive Healing. This perk causes you to gain 50% of your missing healing progression when someone goes down within 32 meters. Problem is, it's always 50% of your missing healing progression, and should as a result never end up completing a heal. Which makes this bad and requires you have some means of completing heals. Teammates can be... unreliable in solo queue. You would need to have a medkit in order to have this perk do anything and at that point you'd probably just use COH instead.

I understand why this is so scary if it gets buffed, but I've seen a Yerv video where he tried to make this work with a SWF and it took a LOT to make work. We are talking dedicated builds and purple medkits. What if we just made it to perform 50% total healing progression instead? You would need 2 downs within 32 meters to gain a health state, I don't think that's particularly broken...

And before you go "But 4 man SWF!", this perk only works if Survivors are injured, which would mean focusing Survivors down or using instadown/Exposed Killers or anti-healing/quick injure Killer would do the trick, and it takes 2 downs within 32 meters to regain a health state. 2 downs... not injures. Within 32 meters. See what I mean?

There is other tactics that M1 Killers can use to counter Reactive Healing if a bully SWF is stacking it, it honestly wouldn't be that broken. (And I'm saying this because two common talking points for being against buffs or reworks is typically M1 Killers or bully SWFs.)

But if this is still too much... we could make it so that the healing progress slowly comes over a certain amount of time, maybe. Or... a cooldown. Or limited uses. Can be balanced easily, I'd say, we already have the tools in-game for fair nerfs.


Ah, and before I end this long post and wait for ideas or criticism, one last thing: People complain about Feng constantly getting cosmetics, and I am one of them. One reason Survivors like Haddie don't get cosmetics is because their perks aren't exactly good. So these Survivors aren't bought, and aren't played. If your favorite Survivor gets their perks buffed, you might see your main Survivor get new cosmetics.

Post edited by EQWashu on

Comments

  • Remedicist
    Remedicist Member Posts: 1,096
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    As a Solidarity user, it would definitely benefit me a lot if other survivors knew I had it equipped. Both of you have great buffs for these perks that would hopefully make perk usage more diverse between trials.

  • AMOGUS
    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
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    Poised: The concept of using tokens is interesting and I think with there now being two Active Ability buttons, I think that this could work. The only problem is that grunts of pain and other things would still exist.

    Solidarity: I did not think of Survivors knowing you have the perk, that is also a very good idea and I would love to see it included with my buff idea.

    Reactive Healing: Both of these could be good as well, for sure.

  • LiveBritishReaction
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    As one of the few people who genuinely use Solidarity, I think that a 100% conversion rate would be WAY too much. I know 50% doesn't seem like much, but at a 1:1 ratio you are quite literally healing two survivors in the time it takes to heal one. That is the equivalent of both of you healing each other with a We'll Make It 100% healing buff active. That's crazy.

    I actually made a whole thread about how to buff Solidarity, you can find it here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352946/a-perk-that-i-m-very-sad-wasn-t-touched-in-the-meta-shift-and-what-i-would-do-to-buff-it

    If you don't want to read an entire essay on how to buff Solidarity (don't blame you), the basic rundown is:

    1. Increase its effectiveness and broaden the team utility by increasing your altruistic healing speed by 25% while injured.
    2. Make Solidarity much more useful in the situation it's meant to be good and also give it a unique and strong general use effect by granting the user complete immunity to the Hemorrhage status effect.
    3. Streamline the perk by removing the reduction in self-healing gained from cooperative healing.

    Regarding buffing the perk to tell teammates you have it: Great idea, but I feel that's not a Solidarity issue and more an issue with the game withholding far too much information from players at large. That is absolutely not Solidarity-specific.

  • SpaghettiYOLO
    SpaghettiYOLO Member Posts: 234
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    Whenever I use Solidarity, I simply refuse to let them heal me if they're injured. It's not hard. As for making it 100%, it already saves a ton of time, especially if someone injured unhooks you and you're also using Resurgence. Heal them and you are also healed. Reactive Healing having a bigger range than the majority of terror radiuses would be pretty broken. It being 50% of current progress is also fair. Healing is something that happens way too fast as it is in this game with the plethora of tools at survivors' disposal. Any little bit is winning the war of time.

    I do agree that Poised needs some kind of buff. I'd be fine with it muffling the sound of running unless the killer is within 8 meters at all times unless the survivor was exhausted. When a gen pops, running is completely silenced no matter how close the killer is (unless exhausted) and no scratch marks.

    On a side note, we need more distraction perks. I'd love for a perk that when activated, shows scratch marks going in two opposite directions. Whatever direction you go in, scratch marks will also appear going in the opposite direction. Although I'm sure people would use it as stupidly as they use Deception. The amount of people that do it in plain sight of the killer while in chase is insane.

  • IlliterateGenocide
    IlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 6,001
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    Solidarity and Resurgences progress should not be able to be taken away by hemorrhage,

    Make solidarity have a 75% conversion rate.

    make solidarity still be 75% if healing with another survivor (remove that stupid penalty)


    make Resurgences progress carry over even if deep wound is applied,

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    Sum up image of how these perks should work.


  • MrDardon
    MrDardon Member Posts: 3,881
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    Reactive Healing should just give you a flat 50 % on heal progress while injured whenever another Survivor is getting hit or downed (no distance requirement).


    Poised should be token based. Everytime a gen is done, you get a Token. Press E to activate Poised for 15 seconds.

    During that time, lose grunts of pain, scratch marks and blood pools. This consumes a Token.


    Solidarity should transfer healing in a 1:1 ratio and should include an icon for teammates so they have an indication if someone has the Perk or not. And if you need Perk Tiers, increase healing speed by 10/12/14 %.

  • AMOGUS
    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
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    That's honestly not crazy. If it's a problem, we could just put a cooldown or limited uses on it.

    Honestly, I don't think healing speed and Hemo nullifcation and sellf-healing reduction would make this perk enough because the problems are still there. If the Killer tunnels, that's no perk for you, and this perk has to compete with other healing perks like COH at the moment.

    But... I suppose I would be fine with trying out extra healing speed when injured, plus the other two. Although I don't think it will be enough...

    And that doesn't mean we can't buff Solidarity to give info in the meantime. BHVR seemingly has no plans to fix that info at large problem, so it's not really an effective counterargument against Solidarity giving info.

  • AMOGUS
    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
    edited November 2022
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    I was actually checking Nightlight extensively for the first time last night before bed after I made my post. Jane's most used perk is Head-On while her other two perks are nowhere near as used. Poised is considered her worst perk at 0.21% and Reactive Healing is pretty low as well (0.44%). Which is telling.

    Thing is, some of the things you're mentioning are based off of extreme scenarios (like running Resurgence with this perk... highly unlikely and requires you be unhooked first, too niche) and you shouldn't need 2 perk slots to get that effect, as COH is a thing.

    And an 8 second reduction once you complete the full heal... Honestly, I don't think that's big of a reduction to warrant a perk slot.

    And thing is, Survivors have to get injured AND go down twice while you're injured within 32 meters to get what I want out of this, especially in solo queue. 50% of current progress also prevents heals from being done by this perk, you'd need to spend time looking for teammates, which can take a huge amount of time in solo queue. You also say it's fair but Nightlight stats seem to disagree. These problems prevent it from competing with COH or other healing perks.

    Can I ask you a question? Are you worried about Survivors stacking perks to achieve some kind of note-worthy effect? You bring up Resurgence, a perk that is ran 0.7% of the time according to Nightlight, when honestly nobody is going to be using 2 niche perks for a niche scenario like healing and then getting healed back without getting interrupted when they could just run COH or a medkit and heal themselves.

    Your Poised changes... it's interesting but I think it's overbalanced still. If you're injured (which is common) you're still getting tracked easily due to the amount of info available. But it's definitely interesting and I would like to see it done.

    And also to clarify my stances, I do, in fact, want strong perks and don't think perks like this are busted because I can see the weaknesses even in my own perk buffs.

    Perks IS DBD, we're not going to ever see a DBD where perks don't matter, and a bunch of perks are useless because people needlessly fear Survivors spending precious perk slots to get a effect similar to meta perks.

  • LiveBritishReaction
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    "That's honestly not crazy."

    I can assure you if Solidarity were buffed to be a 1:1 ratio it would become absolutely absurd. The only reason healing people while injured appears situational at the moment is because survivors simply have far too many tools to efficiently heal themselves without others' aid. If you buff Solidarity to try and compete with healing perks as blatantly overpowered as COH and Botany, then you're just throwing in another S+ tier hyper-busted healing perk and making healing as a whole even more overpowered without solving any actual problems. Solidarity is weak and needs attention, yes, but just because there are other overpowered healing perks in the game doesn't mean caution should be thrown to the wind to give a single bad perk a chance to shine. Those other perks need to be brought in line as much as Solidarity needs a boost; that doesn't mean making Solidarity ridiculously strong would be a good idea. Simply lowering the ridiculous power level of some of these insane self-healing builds would already be a huge buff to Solidarity because it would force survivors to rely on each other for healing, creating many more opportunities to use the perk. Nerf insanely good healing perks like COH, Botany, and We'll Make It and then buff lower-tier ones like Solidarity, Bite the Bullet, and Empathic Connection in a reasonable manner to better even the playing field.


    "If it's a problem, we could just put a cooldown or limited uses on it."

    No. God no. No more cooldowns. I'm sick of BHVR's infatuation with cooldowns, especially on perks. No limited uses either, I would rather have a decent perk that is consistent than an overpowered perk that is not.


    "If the Killer tunnels, that's no perk for you"

    Making the healing ratio 1:1 wouldn't prevent tunneling from countering the perk; as a matter of fact, the changes I proposed would be better in mitigating that weakness for two big reasons.

    1. Buffing the altruistic healing speed would allow you to gain more value against tunneling by upping the odds of finishing your heal on the other teammate before the killer can pressure you in time, giving them a chance to withhold pressure from the killer with their refurbished health state, unlike increasing the self-healing ratio where the killer would just get an easy down or even a 2-man slug on 2 survivors who were almost healed.
    2. An immunity to Hemorrhage would prevent you from losing all the self-healing gained by the perk because the killer forced you to break off and run away. This would also be true in the case of someone healing you instead of you healing them. It would as a whole make the perk stronger in the situation in which it's meant to be strong while also giving it a much more general utility to make it less situational as a whole.


    "BHVR seemingly has no plans to fix that info at large problem, so it's not really an effective counterargument against Solidarity giving info."

    Do you think BHVR has any plans to even acknowledge Solidarity's existence, either? We're not the dev team. We're talking hypotheticals here, and if we're talking hypotheticals, there's really no reason to cherry-pick a specific bad perk's lack of information when the ideal of "let other people see your build" would be a much better change and probably equally as simplistic as giving Solidarity in particular a cue.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 4,977
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    Reactive Healing can be a very nice QoL perk IF the killer doesn't bring some haemorraging effect, which are sadly pretty common. The thing is that in DBD you mostly want consistently useful perks, I have had matches were I ran Reactive Healing and it gave me a ton of value, ie the killer surprised one survivor, anotherone took a protection hit and suddenly I was already 75% healed. But in other games the killer just hunts down one after the next. This just isn't good enough and too niche of an advantage for most players to switch out a perk for Reactive Healing.

    It can work pretty well with Self Care, because you get such a big head start at healing yourself when it procs, but if it doesn`t you are pretty screwed.

  • VideoGameMage
    VideoGameMage Member Posts: 358
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    Reactive healing was actually buffed from the PTB because I remember it being very bad. It's pretty decent now, I just think it needs it's distance buffed.

    Solidarity needs to let your teammates know you have it, get rid of the penalty of healing with another survivor, and let it be used with a medkit. After that, buff it to 75% conversion rate.

    Poised. Any time there's a perk that can only be activated 5 times a match, it should have either a good effect or tokens so it's more manageable. Poised has neither.

    So I have a few buff suggestions for it:

    make it like a mini lucky break that hides scratch marks, pools of blood, grunts of pain, and your aura for 10 seconds every time a gen is finished.

    Or, it gives you an endurance effect for 8 seconds every time a gen is completed. Would be pretty powerful in chase, even if you don't have control over when it happens.

  • deckyr
    deckyr Member Posts: 752
    edited November 2022
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    i'm going to give my opinion here as a killer player. i agree these perks are weird but i think some of the suggestions go too far.

    if reactive healing is going to be capable of completing a heal, then it should work like renewal / a syringe, not be instant. otherwise 4 players using it could have infinite bodyblocks to the exit gate. (it works on hits, not on downs. i don't know why you guys are saying it takes a down to heal you, it doesn't, just a hit is enough.) if i had to make a change i would make it be a token based perk where the first activation heals 50% of your total progress (not missing), the second activation heals 25%, and then all other hits heal 50% of missing. that way it has better synergy with resurgence and solidarity, as you actually can get a health state out of it if you accumulated an amount of healing. this also makes it better as a response to interrupted heals, if your teammate gets you past 50% then their bodyblock will finish your heal and you'll be able to bodyblock for them in turn.

    poised, you guys have suggested that it be activateable and also hide blood/grunts/footsteps. i think that it shouldn't be on demand OR shouldn't hide grunts/blood. otherwise it's just a better iron will / bite the bullet / lucky break. some of these suggestions are wild. 75 seconds of on-demand perfect stealth in total? absolutely not. i think some of you guys underestimate just how godawful the killer FOV is. if i can't hear their breathing, footsteps, or grunts, and there's no scratch marks or pools of blood, there's absolutely no way to realistically chase. if each survivor had five "get out of chase free" buttons the only viable killers would be plague and mirror myers. again, either the on demand activation or the grunts/blood hiding needs to go here. the resulting perk either way is fine. dedicating two perks to the perfect stealth effect is also fine, in my eyes. because the other perks you need in combination have their own flaws that, when put together, leaves a quirky yet conditional build that incurs risk/reward based on your skill of navigating your own blind spots using playstyle and the other two perk slots. i'm not alone when i say i love playing those kinds of builds.

    solidarity is a strong perk as it is. not enabling ridiculous plays like the usual survivor meta stuff does not mean that it's weak, just that people don't truly appreciate the value of it. the one person who stans solidarity in this thread is totally correct on all counts and i am in complete agreement. at the very least some way to counter hemorrhage feels like a no brainer even if the rest of the changes aren't made. also, as an aside, i totally don't understand how some of you guys act where you have to heal two survivors to benefit from the perk? you don't. having healing progress that the other survivor can finish off is very valuable. you don't have to get a full health state from a perk for it to have value. the same thing is being said about reactive healing. circle of healing is strong, but that doesn't mean all healing perks need to be more like circle of healing, it just means that the other healing perks need to have their weaknesses compensated for.

  • LiveBritishReaction
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    I am now going to make it my life goal to build a reputation on this forum as "that one person who stans Solidarity."

    Thank you.

  • Jejune
    Jejune Member Posts: 795
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    Do you know what would be a better move? Place the majority of best perks in the base game (within reason)

    And then just have "eh" perks across the board and it would matter, because then perks would enhance certain game play and not create it

  • Eelanos
    Eelanos Member Posts: 346
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    My ideas:

    Poised: To keep the best use case to be immediately after finishing a gen: If a generator you're working on gets completed, you get 5 seconds of Haste and 15 seconds of silent footsteps, no grunts of pain, no scratch marks, no pools of blood and can vault or rush into lockers silently.

    I don't want this perk becoming a chase perk, and I think part of the gameplay it's trying to promote is finishing a gen and running away if the killer decides to come back and check it, so let's just amp up its power the few times you'll get to see it. Once you complete a gen, you can run away at extra speed and it'll be like you were never there to begin with. Probably the only scenario this could be annoying is when a survivor greeds a generator successfully, but this could be fixed with a couple exceptions like disabling it when the killer is within a 6 meters radius or something.

    Solidarity: When healing another player, Solidarity gets charges at the same rate as it does now (50% of the healing done), but they get stored in the perk. This can happen even when you're full health. Next time you or someone else starts a heal on you, Solidarity turns off and the charges get transformed into healing progress. The perk can be charged all the way up to 100%, making the next heal on you instant.

    Reactive Healing: When a survivor loses a health state while you're injured, you cleanese Hemorrage and Mangled on yourself (if you had them) and your healing progress bar gets instantly set at 50% if it was below that percentage.

    And as an extra:

    Resurgence: After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, get 50% healing progress as a special type of healing that cannot be lowered by hemorrage. Cleansing a totem returns the time spent in the totem as special healing in a 1:1 conversion rate. Working on a generator transforms 33% of the charges into special healing. This does not affect any healing progress gotten by any other means.

  • versacefeng
    versacefeng Member Posts: 1,092
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    No distance requirement would be ridiculous. I think they should increase the range to 48, 64 at most.

  • AMOGUS
    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
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    Before I start this off, I would like to apologize for misunderstanding Reactive Healing. Every single post, including my buff to Reactive Healing, involved me operating under the assumption that Reactive Healing only worked off of downed Survivors. I even checked the DBD wiki precisely to prevent this from happening, yet I suppose I read it too quickly?

    However, since we're now bringing up "As a x", I play both sides frequently and have literal years of experience with DBD, I've played since Clown was teased and I have almost every trophy on PS4 before Onryo (I switched to PC before she came out). I am not saying this to make my opinion more valid, I'm saying this so I'm not seen as "some Survivor main or Survivor biased player".

    I would be fine with it not being instant if it meant Reactive Healing could complete heals. However, I don't know why Resurgence is being calculated in this when nobody uses this perk. You'd have to dedicate two perk slots for that + buy 2 chapters when you could just use COH by buying Mikaela. It's not worth it.

    As for Poised, there was more suggestions than just that and having Poised focus around footsteps might be handy. It either needs to have the passive footstep reduction or it needs to be activateable. Poised isn't used currently because it triggers either when you don't need it and the effect is mediocre in a chase. Footstep volume is loud and there's too many other ways of tracking. I suppose stacking 2 perks for stealth is fine, like Poised and LB... but there is still the issue of grunts of pain. You could stack IW but then that's... what... 3 entire perk slots for one effect?

    And also, you say you and others love playing those kinds of builds. According to Nightlight, this might be true. LB and IW are still picked noticeably more than the other perks, which is good to see. Perhaps Poised should focus around scratch marks or footsteps themselves, then? Maybe both?

    I also cannot agree with Solidarity being a strong perk. Nightlight says it has a 0.49% pick rate, which is lower than Resurgence at 0.7%. (Pick rates can be useful for what the actual playerbase thinks of these perks.) Hemo definitely is one reason why it isn't used, plus needing to fully heal a Survivor is another. And you say that people don't truly appreciate the value... I don't see the value from multiple perspectives. It gets easily countered by Hemo (remember, you're saying it's a strong perk "as it is"), requires you heal another Survivor fully and would mostly see use in that scenario where people get away from a hook and are not interrupted. At this point, COH would be better since it lets you do the same thing except better.

    And healing perks needing their weaknesses compensated for with other perk slots or items is exactly why they aren't used. Again, the perk pick rates don't lie. It shows what players actually think of these perks. COH isn't going away, it's not going to be nerfed. Other perks should be brought up so they're closer to it.

  • AMOGUS
    AMOGUS Member Posts: 482
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    48 might be good, if Reactive Healing isn't buffed to complete heals.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,344
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    reactive healing would be such good perk if it was based off being away from the killer and it granted like 25% total healing progression. i would run that perk all the time as survivor.

    its shame that its based off being 32 near the killer and gives current healing progression. when i am injured, i do not want to be next to the killer and current healing progression means that I still need find a teammate to fully heal me.

  • MrDardon
    MrDardon Member Posts: 3,881
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    After thinking, I agree that a flat 50 % with no distance might be a bit much.

    Currently, RH heals 50 % of your missing heal progression. So it basically gets wesker the more you heal.

    I was actually thinking that it healed 50 % of your already existing healing progress.


    Anyways, how would it be if it gave a flat 30 % when someone else is injured within 48 metres?

    So if you healed to 70 % then RH would heal you fully. It would be weaker when not having any heal progress but stronger if you have more progress.