Killers exploiting the pip system, Why is this ok?
So I am a killer main and I try to avoid tunnels and hook camps as a tactic. However I recently started to survivor grind again and I have to say I am not sure why survivors continue to play the game when you have killers that can abuse the pip system.
A killer can tunnel a player out right at the start and make it a 3v1 which is drastically in their favor, then can even continue to use this tactic a second time. at a 2 v 1 most non-premades are done killer gets a 3-4k easy. Now the killer will only get 1 pip for this at best and on average this is the outcome. However the 2 survivors that were tunneled out will receive a double de-pip and the other a single de-pip.
How is this a system in which it has a balanced outcome, to be honest after doing this grind I have questioned why anyone would want to go through that punishment?
Comments
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I've been opposed to pips ever since grades were introduced.
However, I don't see how this is an exploit that killers are using.
An exploit would be abusing unintentional game design for a benefit.
Camping and slugging, while might not be fun, has been confirmed to be a strategy of the game and is a part of game design.
It also doesn't benefit killers in terms of pipping. In fact you get less points and are more likely to depip than if you were to play normally. Also them getting pips does not give any advantages in game. Same with you losing pips, does nothing in the trial.
While I don't like the pip system, everything you just said is simply just wrong.
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Not an exploit.
This whole "trying to steer people to play one way and one way only" is desperately anti fun.
I just played 3 entire games as the one and only "doing gens, you?" gigablendette. I did nothing whatsoever except wait for everyone to die and the killer to find the hatch for me so I could escape via key.
But I guess I am toxic and unsportsmanlike for doing that. I forgot I am playing the next big thing in e-sports.
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Since I have been running survivor this last month alone live streamers were doing this just to be toxic and said so in stream yet they still got a pip or were already Iri 1 so pips didn't matter. This also would be exploiting the pip system itself as the penalty does not really effect their ability to pip as the can tunnel right at the start and then still be able to pip where as the survivor has little to no control of this and gets hit with a steep penalty
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For those that replied I am meaning the word exploit as in deriving full benefit from something not cheating
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It is not the tactic I have a problem with it's the penalties themselves as I said I try to steer clear of those tactics but I also understand that they are tactics and I am fine with that. Its the problem of balance which I mentioned in my original post.
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That makes no sense but ok.
Also here's a pro tip.
Doctor with Iri King&Queen
Distressing
Jolt / Overcharge
Merciless Storm
Unnerving Presence
Arguably not an exploit either but guaranteed pip + perfect game every single time.
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I'm not sure what this exploit is supposed to be.
Killers goal is to win by killing, just as survivors goal is to win by escaping, and some killers find that camping gets them that win.
Pips don't really come into it. They don't do anything other than give you a bit of extra BP at the end of the month.
Also you can't double depip. Unless, I think, you DC.
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Nobody cares about pups.
Or at least, they shouldn't .
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And my friend in a SWF can do very well and went from Ash to Iridescent as survivor with very minimal effort because we know how to use comms properly. Keep in mind we are a due and not a 4-man SWF.
Getting information and knowing how to use it is insanely valuable. Which is why I consider aura reading perks to be incredibly strong for survivor and are always a part of my SoloQ Build.
There is no abuse nor exploitation of the "pip system", it's just people playing the game and understanding how it works, hell, most people dont even look that deep into it, ask most people in the community and they wont know what emblem conditions are required for pipping for killer let alone survivor.
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I have a hard time believing you're a "killer main." killers arent "exploiting the pip system" litteraly the most effective way to win is to get someone out early. if killers played how survivors want them to (getting 2 hooks on everyone without tunneling and such) most of the time they will get a 2k max. and dont pull the "i dont tunnel or camp and still get 4ks every match" because if you actually did play killer you would know getting a 4k every match by playing the survivor's way is impossible. unless you're like a god tier nurse/blight or your mmr is so low you get starting players
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never said I get 4k's all the time, I do find it funny how many people are upset about this when I am pointing out how the pip system is geared towards killer over survivor. Never said camping or tunneling are not a tactic I know they are, I personally avoid doing this unless I have to, to regain control in a match. The purpose is how killers exploit the system as in exploit the word meaning to derive full benefit from something. Not exploit as in a cheat or bug. But per common forum policy why read the post and replies and just pick the part you feel is the one you can argue. pizza you took one comment about me avoiding using those tactics and then added I 4k everytime, which was never said sorry you struggled with reading the post and added your own words to mine. But I give you an A for effort. Again the post is to point out the problems with the pip system not killer tactics. The amount of punishment is way heavier on the survivor side when it comes to a poor performance in comparison to a killer. Same goes with gaining pips.
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That's not the only "exploit" to pip more quickly as killer. You can exploit the MMR system for killers to pip faster by cycling through killers after season reset. If you limit each killer to 2-3 matches, then almost all matches will be against low MMR survivors, guaranteeing more pips.
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A survivor can tunnel a generator out right at the start and make it 4 gens left which is drastically in their favor. They can even continue to use this tactic a second time to finish two or three gens before the first down. Most premades are 3-4 escapes easy. The killer will depip or if they are lucky get a safety for this outcome. However the 3-4 survivors that escape a double pip.
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Double pip for survivor requires chase or unhooks can't do it based solely from gen repairs
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What even is this thread?
exploiting the pip system when it doesn’t even have anything to do with gameplay?
double depip as survivor?
survivors can „tunnel out a gen“?
exploiting the MMR system as if MMR resets every month like grades?
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No clue I posted in reference to the pip system being unbalanced and in the killer's favor but people latched on to the tactics and other nonsense
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The pip system doesn’t need to be balanced though. This is an asymmetrical game. Survivors losing a pip because they got tunneled out can move on to the next match quicker than killers who always have to stay to the end. Also you can’t de-grade anyways so losing a pip isn’t that much of a deal..
also you were the one talking about double depips which are gone for a long time now?
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You missed the obvious parody of OP's statement. Also the survivors can play around as long as they feel safe and let the killer get some hooks after the game is 99% completed.
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I only started playing again in mid october after a year long break. Before I left, MMR reset along with grades. Is that no longer the case? Also, my point was to illustrate that there are many ways to "exploit" the system to get more pips, suggesting OP has a weak point.
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MMR never reset at all.
though before MMR was introduced the ranks (now grades) were used for matchmaking and those were reset every month.
I think they will introduce a very new mechanic(or have they already?) were MMR goes down a bit if you aren’t playing at all for a longer time..
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Ah, you're right, then - no exploiting the MMR system as killer. I was wondering why I was facing such sweaty players after having been gone so long.
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Just remove depicting entirely or save it only for red rank
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lets run some numbers
Post edited by Kalowk on0 -
Weak point? To pip in Iri you need 2 iri's and a gold emblem, for survivor this is done by repairing a total of 2 gens, unhook to teammates and heal them, and then finally be in chase for 30 secs. that being said for a killer they need the same but by tunneling can easily achieve it while de-piping the survivors with little to no down side.
Killer have gate keeper which is the gens and keeping them from being repaired which a tunneler is not to worried about, Devout they will get 2 points when they tunnel you out not to mention on their way to the 9 hooks and hook 1 of each survivor points which is another 2 points. Malicious 1 point for each hit a person being hit twice for the first hook, then when unhooked they get another 2 cause of survivors built in free hit and 2 points for each hook state. Now the "negative" Chaser, they will get 55 for each hit 5 for finding and starting chase and only lose 7.5 for each second up to 10 seconds when chasing from hook so a max of -75. Now chase time 90 if the chase ends in 15 sec and 60 if in 30. Chasing off the hook will likely not take more than 15 seconds but lets say it does. That's thats 175 adjusted to 100 for max penalty and 30 sec chase for 15 sec chase thats 130. So for doing this they net themselves whatever the initial chase score was for the first hook plus. 200-260+ initial chase but for the others they get 12 for malicious 2 for devout with progress to others.
Now that's alot of progress to their emblems when they need 10 points for devout, 36 for Malicious, 2550 for chaser, and 35 for gatekeeper so about a 3rd of the way on 3 emblems for Iri emblems. Plus not to mention the other survivors are going to try and stop this in most cases giving the killer even more points. The killer can even do this a second time and easily get their pip.
Now in the same situation but as survivor, if you are tunneled out its gg de-pip nothing you can do about it. If you are not the one being tunneled even if you repair all gens and escape you will not pip cause you did not get unhooks and heals or chase time with killer. So you will not pip in most cases either. as you can't be chased by a killer that's just tunneling someone else out and you cannot unhook safely and heal them either.
You say weak point but the pip system doesn't really have a punishment for killers tunneling except for the survivors as if they are the target they de-pip and if not they will get safe pip but no gains in most cases.
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So today at reset I have played 11 matches of those 11, 9 have been a tunneler and 2 were actually playing the game
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To be an exploit, a strategy should provide someone with a way to control their outcomes to be successful, to guarantee a goal they're trying to reach.
You're suggesting that by tunneling alone, one can guarantee a pip. But, even if a killer does decide to tunnel someone, they're not guaranteed to accumulate all of those points you've laid out unless things work out close to as you describe them. You've described plausible outcomes, but they're not guaranteed, even if tunneling itself is common.
Survivors can loop the killer long enough to destroy their gatekeeper emblem; healing speeds are fast, so it's easy to undo points from the malicious emblem; when someone is tunneled, survivors are more likely to DC, or to suicide on hook further detracting from malicious points. These aren't guaranteed outcomes, but they're plausible, and common.
I think at best you've recognized that tunneling can be an effective method to pip, but tunneling alone doesn't guarantee that you will pip as killer. Seeing people tunneling as a survivor doesn't give you evidence that people are pipping, only that people are tunneling. I assume you believe they're pipping because you think tunneling is an effective method to pip. You should try your method out with killer and see how quickly you can reach iri in just tunneling alone. To really drive your point home, you could use a weak killer.
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