Me and my swf
I have played both killer and survivor, however I am typically a survivor main. I agreed when killers would say it needed to change, that they struggled with getting 4ks. However, I never expected the pendulum to swing in the complete other direction.
Killer seems to be fairly simple, and easy to play - Ive made it rank 1 several months in a row.. Yet, survivor just keeps getting worse.
When rank resets every month, you just get tunnelled and camped for days on end. I have a swf that I typically play with, and each month it seems to get harder and harder to get to rank 1 because so many killers are tunnelling and camping "just to be toxic". Just now, 4 days before reset, I played 23 games in a row. Of which, I escaped 3. The other 20 one of the randoms gets tunnelled out immediately. Then the other random goes, then the killer focused on me and my buddy. EVERY. Game. This is the picture of balance?
I'm at the point where I would rather play a game alone than play dbd, and my swf feels the same. It makes me sad to see this game in this state, with behavior ignoring anyone who isn't a fog whisperer killer main. I've put so much time and money into this game, just to be ignored.... and it's disheartening. My swf won't even get on anymore because they don't see a point. So a lot of times, it's me + a friend and two randoms.... Either MMR needs to be fixed or tunnelling and camping need to be fixed.
Comments
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Killers do not tunnel to be toxic. They tunnel out survivors to win. Getting two hooks on everyone is the worst possible outcome. That would be like getting all 7 generators to 33% progress. When was the last time you did that as survivor? It was never because that is inefficient. Hooking one person three times is the best result and gives the killer a bonus of -25% gen speed potential for the rest of the game.
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Right, but you're ruining the game for other players by utilizing a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game.. And by shouldn't, I mean, you basically stop a player from playing so you can win. In other games, this would be considered exploitation. Also yes, some killers do tunnel just to be toxic, and I'm sure you know the ones. I'm also not talking about tunnelling as in I was the only survivor the killer could find. I mean straight back-to-hook-Andy, I take a hit and he goes for the person I just got off the hook and was in the middle of healing. I've even gone so far as to take a down and the killer would rather leave me slugged to continue tunnelling.
Base-kit borrowed time has done nothing to fix this issue, by the way. Just like Base-kit unbreakable will do nothing to fix the slugging issue.
It is refreshing to go against killers who do not tunnel and camp, however, when 87% of games are lost due to camping and tunnelling that would insinuate a major problem for the game. And if this is the direction that behaviour is taking the game, then can they just come right out and say so so those of us that don't want to lose non-stop and don't find that fun, can quit and move on?
Nope, because that would cut into their bottom dollar. So we're stuck in this middle ground where they say "we hear you", while simultaneously ignoring.
But hey! sure glad they fixed locker saves.
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You have very valid points and I think you are right but cut that last line. That only makes you look like an entitled survivor that wants killers to be npcs cause it says hey my problems are the most important when there are a hundred problems bhvr needs to adress
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The last sentence is more in line - yes you fixed problem that 1% of players experience once in a month at most. Sure it's unfair bad gameplay that needed to be fixed, but let's fix it before something that 80% of player base experience every single day and consider biggest problem for game health.
Meaning priorities are very clear at this point. And that's really sad part.
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-"Right, but you're ruining the game for other players by utilizing a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game.."
You're talking about SWF right and how it ruins the game for the killer because you can play hyper efficiently in ways the game isn't balanced for.
-"you basically stop a player from playing so you can win"
Get survivors to not tunnel generators and stop breaking my 3 gens and I won't feel the need to tunnel.
-"I'm also not talking about tunnelling as in I was the only survivor the killer could find. I mean straight back-to-hook-Andy, I take a hit and he goes for the person I just got off the hook and was in the middle of healing."
What does a killer get if they get two hooks on Jake and one hook on Claudette? Nothing. What do you get for three hooks on Jake? Jake is dead and there can at most be 3 players on generators. Why should I attack someone twice when I can down the person that just got unhooked with a single attack? The tiles are too safe, the maps are too big and gens are done way too quickly. The killer needs to "catch up" to the survivor's faster objective time if they want to win.
When was the last time as survivor you got one generator to 33% and went around and got all 6 other generators to 33% completion? You have never played that way. Therefore as killer I will always attempt to tunnel one person out. You are playing in a swf you said, which makes you more efficient. To play against all the nonsense in the game right now I need to tunnel to win.
-"Base-kit borrowed time has done nothing to fix this issue"
Base kit BT made me more likely to tunnel. Why? Because it's just another thing in the survivor's favor that they don't need. Where's the built in mechanic to prevent survivors from tunneling gens? Killers should have either gotten base kit Corrupt or base kit Deadlock. Deadlock as a full perk could just double the time so it would be blocked for 60 seconds when combined with the base kit version. Corrupt would be harder to rework as a full perk but if I were on the payroll I could could come up with something.
-"But hey! sure glad they fixed locker saves."
There is no defense against someone jumping in a locker vs a flashlight. It was basically an exploit with no counter. But to make survivors feel better about giving the killers an exploit fix they now have an extra 0.25 seconds for flashlight blinds on pickup which will make them essentially automatic.
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"You're talking about SWF right and how it ruins the game for the killer because you can play hyper efficiently in ways the game isn't balanced for."
As stated in my first post, my SWF won't play because of the tunnelling and camping that is rampant at high MMR. That's already 3/4 players that have quit the game because behaviour would rather fix a problem that afflicts 1% of players than the majority.
"Get survivors to not tunnel generators and stop breaking my 3 gens and I won't feel the need to tunnel."
So you punish players for playing the game, as intended. Instead of learning to have some gen control.
"The killer needs to "catch up" to the survivor's faster objective time if they want to win."
If you're getting gen-rushed, I see it as valid and fair game play, I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about the killers who tunnel people out at 5 gens to have an unfair advantage over the three people left.
"There is no defense against someone jumping in a locker vs a flashlight. It was basically an exploit with no counter. But to make survivors feel better about giving the killers an exploit fix they now have an extra 0.25 seconds for flashlight blinds on pickup which will make them essentially automatic."
Again, you're talking about an issue that affected 1% of players, MAYBE 2%. Vs.... Tunnelling, Camping, the pallet glitch - survivor vaults and gets stuck in the pallet if someone is on the other side. lol IVE SEEN THAT MORE than i've seen flashlight locker saves.
But okay.
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Exactly! They fixed a problem that 1% - MAYBE 2% of players experience, but couldn't be bothered to fix the many other issues that 80%-90% face every time they play. I'm glad you understood :)
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Imagine caring so much about "winning" lol
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Stopping Tunneling isn't as easy as you make it out to be....
The MMR is tied to getting Kills VS escaping... and people are overcompetitive about it
It would be nice to not Tunnel anyone if they stopped T-bagging at the exit gates... Cause I take that as "hahahaahhahaha we won, you lost" and no one can convince me otherwise
Yes there are issues that cause this to be the case... and they solved the one that was easy to solve... so what
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"It would be nice to not Tunnel anyone if they stopped T-bagging at the exit gates... Cause I take that as "hahahaahhahaha we won, you lost" and no one can convince me otherwise"
100% agree with this statement, I only teabag when a killer is already being toxic... Toxic gets toxic back, in my opinion.
However, if it's a killer that doesn't deserve a teabag, I don't tea bag. At the exit gate, if they had a hard game (which is the only time I escape anymore) I just leave. I don't extend the game because that's not fair to a Killer that just wants out.
"Stopping Tunneling isn't as easy as you make it out to be...."
I'm sorry, are people not being paid to come up with solutions? Last I checked, they had quality control specialists.
Honestly, I'm just kind of over it, myself. I don't want to play dbd. Neither do the 120 friends on my friends list, they've moved on because it's not fun to lose 87% of matches... and that's on a good day. On a bad day it's 98%.
Personally, until something changes, I won't be back on the game... Neither will a lot of my friends.
It's just sad that this is what it came down to.
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Tunelling and camping are legit strategies because BHVR doesn't discourage them. Those are here to stay. The problem is that they are fairly accessible without any perks on the killer side and killers have wised up, even by playing a lot or getting schooled by youtube videos. And survivors need perks to counter those strategies or communication and co-ordination (which is not happening in solo survivor most of the time)
I play solo survivor and it can be very frustrating and red ranks because even harder. The thing that is making solo survivor even harder is that they're taking away the power to solo carry and emphasizing teamplay, just look at the new survivor perks., with Potential Energy the worst offender that seems hardly viable in solo and Quick Gambit somewhere in the middle, but obviously much more effective in SWF as you know which teammate isn't afraid of killer or wants the buff, while in solo most people will just run to hide.
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MMR is going to get some changes next patch - I believe. And it's going to be more fairer.
There's really no advice to give when it comes to tunneling and camping. Personally, I use Kindred in every single build. its information help everyone in these situations.
I think it's important to note that it's okay to be less altruistic. For example, if your friend has zero hooks and they are in a chase for awhile, better not run to take a hit and give the Killer free pressure - it's better to do a gen to speed things up. I'm a solo player and teamed up with 3 SWF so many times. Sometimes they are overly altruistic and it's easy 4k. It's okay to split up and give the Killer less information of your locations.
More tips you may already know but I'll share anyway; Start working on gens that are in the center of the map. Because if you work on gens in the corners of the map first, it's going to be very hard to defend gens late game.
Remember Killer perks, but keep in mind that there is a high chance that they are using Pain Resonance. Let go of a gen even if it's less then 20% progress.
If something makes it difficult for you, bring something with you that will give you an easier time. If gens are slow or many killers run so many slow-down perks, bring Prove Thyself with Aura reading to find teammate easier. If you want to avoid the chase, bring Lucky Break and Overcome. You can use it with Bite the Bullet and a medkit mid chase.
You can use a key to track the Killer position in a chase or to see teammate at all times.
One last thing, pay attention to the mistakes you make or the way you play. Maybe there is something you need to change.
I remember how my mistakes caused an unfortunate lost 🤕
I hope I helped.
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Then you aren't the problem...
And yes they do but coming up with a solution is harder
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But... game IS designed to tunnel and camp (I dont like it, i love to do 8 hooks before any sacrifices... well, in most games i dont even kill a surv). If devs would want those tactics not being used, they would change things to remove this from the game. But it is valid tactic. Killers need to kills survivors before they open gates and exit. Nowhere in game, tutorials and anything, any killer gets info that they need to do 8 hooks before sacrifices. Even better, doing one kill gives more BP and pipes than doing 8 hooks (i may be wrong here i havnt checked actual data, im talking from my memory, and this can be inacurate). Game do not tell killers HOW they have to kill, only that they have to kill all survivors, and best and most efficient way to do that is to tunnel... sorry for your inconvinience, im also against tunneling... but this IS how this game is designed.
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I hate posts like this. It's just another flavor of bemoaning "tunneling and camping" without any conception of that that is to the OP.
Like what is tunneling and camping to you? There's no frame of reference. I've met many survivors who consider the killer existing on the map as tunneling and camping. Doesn't mean anything.
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I got Iri1 on both killer and survivor within 2 weeks of coming back from a 3 year break. I think you're exaggerating a bit.
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Hi, if you refer to response # 1 I state "I'm also not talking about tunnelling as in I was the only survivor the killer could find. I mean straight back-to-hook-Andy, I take a hit and he goes for the person I just got off the hook and was in the middle of healing. I've even gone so far as to take a down and the killer would rather leave me slugged to continue tunnelling." I hope this helps with identifying what tunnelling and camping means to me.
I'm very glad to hear that your recent return has been simple and easy for you. Clearly your MMR has dropped significantly. Wait a few months for your MMR to increase, and then let me know how your games are going. I look forward to hearing from you. :)
Exactly. This is the frustrating part. The killer plays scummy and gets rewarded and we depip because he tunnelled and camped and we got 10k bp for the few gens we managed to get done.
I sincerely hope they do change MMR. At this rate, its so easy to pip as killer but not as survivor and it's really frustrating to have to sweat so hard to de-pip anyway. (in my experience, anyway)
Also, these are tips I've already implemented myself. Hopefully some new players will be able to take some stock on this post. :)
I understand that it's not easy. I also understand it's not a game where every change is going to be welcomed with open arms by the community. However, I think they really need to come right out and say that ruining another players experience by camping and tunnelling isn't fair or legitimate gameplay. (except in the instances where it is. lol) At this point, at high MMR it's almost non-stop. And if behaviour does not agree, then I would personally like them to come right out and say they don't agree, tell us that you're alright with killers having an unfair advantage at 5 gens so those of us that are tired of this tactic can move on in peace.
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How's Camping and Tunneling at 5 Gens an advantage... explain it to me
The Survivors have the advantage at 5 Gens... All 4 are alive and healthy with no Hooks on them... the longer it takes to complete a Gen is either a really strong Killer doing their job or Survivors whom haven't yet figured out their advantage
Camping and Tunneling aren't stopping the other 3 Survivors from completing aa Gen (or 2)
Yes it does suck to be that Survivor that is Tunneled and Camped but compare that to Gens... do you sit on a Gen till it's complete or do you move on and find a Gen that isn't started?
Do you stay near a Gen when the Killer comes to check on it? same with a Survivor on a Hook?
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I feel you and admit that I, as a killer main, am part of the problem. I have been burned by the pipping system so hard, going from 4 pips to zero just because of a couple of really bad match ups and wonky emblem system, or worst: because I really liked the last survivor and letting them go, thus not pipping up and then next couple games got recked royaly. So each grade reset I sweat it the hardest and to my uttmost ability, just to grind out Iri1 as fast as possible and giving no quarters or showing mercy to anyone.
I actually love the cute interactions with survivors that sometimes arise after a hard game when both sides show each other some respect and just fool around, but the pipping/depipping system actively hurt you for doing so, unless you just graded up.
So there would be a very, very, VERY simple solution: just do away with depipping unless someone got a DC. Done. That wasn't so hard, was it?
People say that grades serve no purpose and are not a reflection of skill, but more of time sunk into the game since the last grade reset, but its also very much a reflection of your RNG luck.
So, right now you need 90 pips to go from Ash IV to Iri I. How about we do away with de-pipping and add a couple of pips, lets say 30. Now you need 120 good games in a month to get to Iri 1, and the pacing doesn't matter any more. You can play normal hard and when you get a cute game you can let the survivors go or give the killer a mercy hook/sacrifice yourself for a random to get away without hurting your progress. Every good game will bring your further to the next grade and this months Iri 1, while the bad games are just small setbacks, but not the furstrating mess they are right now.
Heck, DCs could escalate in depipping for all I care. Besides the escalating lockdown increase the lost pips by 1 for every 3 DCs someone got that month. And with this system it would still be much less frustrating and actually fun to play at your own pace.
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Rank has no effect on matchmaking so rank reset is not the reason for people tunnelling.
Locker saves are a lot easier to balance than tunnelling is. There is no reason to delay a very easy fix just because there are bigger problems.
I agree with you completely that tunnelling and camping suck and should go, but it’s a tough thing to balance. They’ve already tried with base kit BT and Reassurance but they don’t work because someone who wants to camp or tunnel is going to do so no matter what.
I think what they need to do is buff solo queue to be on par with SWF and then buff killers in a way that encourages them NOT to camp or tunnel. They’ll still exist, because you can’t get rid of it, but this way it will be the much less effective strategy and hopefully it’s reduced.
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Some killers will tunnel no matter what. I don't care about those rare breeds. They are rare. Vast majority of killers camp and tunnel, because it's easy and it's rewarding. How hard is it to stand in front of survivor and wait for him to die? Or how hard is it to start chase with said survivor if anyone is able to get him out?
But I can speak about rewards - camping means you will probably win the game, because if survivors don't have reassurance, there is no way to do gens fast enough that only that single person will die. Another thing is, that it is WAY much harder to unhook survivor then to camp - so in low elo where there is no experience how to counter this - it's is 100% win. You need to let that person hang, you need to then come in time. There needs to be at least 2 people. It must not be bubba or some other S-tier camper (pinky clown, iri hatchet huntress, trickster in the open - like basement, ....). If you go alone, there's good chance that killer will grab you which is full win for killer (no unhook and another survivor on hook). So if the team does not know, there is nothing that can loose you game. However if the team knows what to do, you will still get quite some advantage (but you can't only camp to win).
For tunneling - getting quickly 1 person out of game is effectively slowing the whole team by 50% (not 33% as people mistakenly tend to think). Meaning after it's 3v1 there is 1 in chase, 1 recovering and 1 on gen. With 4 players it's 1 in chase, 1 recovering and 2 on gens. (to recovering I count time to go for unhook, unhooking and then unhooked survivor healing himself).
Both of these are braindead easy and probably very rewarding. Most of killers will utilize it so long as these things are true. It's very easy to see, because we have already saw it. For a few days after patch 6.1 every killer was winning basically ALL the games. And yet camping and tunneling was at it's highest. Having other agency to do without camping & tunneling did NOTHING to prevent killers from camping. The opposite was true. Meaning any additional buffs to killers will help against these tactics will DO NOTHING.
Also - fixing locker saves is also not that easy problem. Devs just took a shortcut. There were legitimate locker saves that had counter play. Like someone going into locker and another survivor being behind a nearby bush - it was fully possible to get that hiding survivor instead. This is same situation as normal pick up flashlight save. But devs decided locker saves are rare enough that disabling all locker saves is fine. Yet another thing for detriment to survivors - but at least this time survivors got a compensation buff in extending flash save time window (sure enough PTB version was bugged and I am pretty sure it will be fixed so some timing will be required).
But I agree that solo should be buffed so that gap between solo vs swf is much smaller. Also killers can get compensated when this happens AND when camping and tunneling is made risky (by adding more defenses against it instead of taking away existing) OR harder to do (no idea how to make camping harder) OR not so rewarding (no idea how to do this for both camp & tunnel)
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The only thing you'll hear from me is from others crying in the forum to nerf this and that.
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I really like this idea and it would diminish the frustration from being tunnelled and camped.
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