I was hopeful but now disapointed
Finally survivors were going to be treated as a Team but we got jebaited.
You're simply losing less MMR based on how manny Survivors escape. In the end all it matters STILL is just escapes...
WHY!? You can already track when Survivors help eachother. Reunited already tracks, Co-Op already Tracks SO WHY are you basing this change SOLELY ON HOW MANNY PEOPLE ESCAPE!?
This is just so LAZY of you BHVR! You already have things in place to properly track Survivors as a Team yet you're still defending your USELESS MMR system by only making ESCAPES MATTER!
I'll just give up Survivor at this point. People won't really change the way they play unless there's a deep system change BUT YOU REFUSE TO MAKE THE SYSTEM CHANGES cause you want scrub players to feel like they can win or their own...
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Because the object of the game is for as many survivors to escape as possible. If three or four survivors escaping isn’t a win for the survivor side and at most one survivor escaping isn’t a loss then what is?
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The reason why is because if you have everything taking into account then you simply have a worst case of what we already have, but closer to the old rank system.
The problem with the old system is if everyone played well, then theoretically the majority if not everyone in the lobby would pip, or at the very least safety pip. What this means is the game sees everyone winning meaning they would climb to a higher ranks and the game doesnt determine anyone a loser. So you had people who had no business being in the higher ranks but were there anyway because they did the bare minimum for the game to consider them a winner. This was very apparent towards the end of a season having people of all skill levels at red ranks.
If we do the same thing to MMR, what do you think will happen? The only difference it would make is BHVR would have to increase the soft cap more often because people would be at a level they have no business being in
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This happens with killers, though. It’s quite easy to 3-4K at low and mid levels so killers gain MMR quickly, escalating to ranks they’re simply not ready for. There isn’t really a good way to deal with that, it seems, but there should be some sort of universal system that allows both sides to either climb ranks swiftly or in a more measured way.
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I dont know if thats true actually
A friend of mine recently got the game, and another whos played the game a long time ago returned but on PC instead of console (he didnt play very much even then).
Obviously this means theyre at a low MMR since theyre just starting out, I would join them on some occassions but also I just watch them play. Its a pretty decent 50/50 split on them escaping or dying, there are so many mistakes being made by both sides that they kind of just cancel each other out most of the time. I have yet to see one side completely stomp the other even when I was being brought into the mix.
Theres also another group I play with some times and when we first started out, they just got the game. The experience was pretty much identical.
Its pretty amusing to just watch, because instead of stressful moans and groans its joyful screams and laughter.
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What I head you don't lose as much mmr points if you did well in match but still lost survivor or killer. But would you honestly want to gain mmr when you're losing? I don't because that just puts you agains't better survivors or killer.
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But you're only focused on the result and discarding everything else. That's like using 4 slowdown perks or 4 second chances. You don't give a ######### how you're playing and how it affects everything else as long as you get the objective and you win.
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It's not Skill Based MM, It's Kill Based MM, and that's fine, because it's impossible to account for various different playstyles. How do you compare Blendette's Sole Survivor plays against Neon Nea's flashlight skills? You can't.
So yes, all that matters is going to be kills or escapes, but it the amount each kill or escape is weighted depends on other factors, then those factors matter as well.
If you play well as a survivor, then you contribute to your teams ability to escape. Most of the time you will escape, but the times you don't, other survivors may escape for your efforts. Your losses will therefore be worth less than your wins, and you overall MMR will be higher.
Remember, MMR is an averages game, not game-by-game.
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You wouldn't see people in ranks they don't belong if they couldn't SWF. How manny SWFS are made of 4 good players? Most SWFS are like 1 or 2 good survivors carrying the entire team. Which is why when there's 4 good survivors then the game is unwinnable for killers.
But SWFing is a major appeal of the game, so if that's the case then promote that but Balance the game so wether you're solo or SWF the chances of winning are the same, which in turn makes the game an even playing field for killers because wether they are solos or SWF won't matter anymore because the game is designed with the that scenario as it's base.
That scenario is why "Comp" DbD is not based at all on Kills and Escapes but rather on Points based on actions, yes said actions do lead to escapes or kills but that's the end result not the single factor that decides skill.
MMR being only focused on escapes and kills and pitting the game as 1v1v1v1v1 is why 99% of population is considered Top MMR. My ability to escape as survivor is completly based on me. If i'm last survivor i can still use hatch to escape. So wether or not the the 4 survivors did well there's 1 that can get a free escape regardless. Which in turn makes every single survivor selfish to the point that they let others die just so they have the hatch option and not do gens.
So you think because that guy escaped and i died he's better than me and i should Pip but he should because he escaped?
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But survivor isn't a 1v1v1v1v1, it's a 4v1 that's the issue. That's what BHVR should fix. Both Claudette and Nea can escape without helping each other directly. What sense does that make? Hows that fair towards killers or just in general? Why will i help you survive? I don't get anything for it...
This is the issue that needs fixing.
If MMR losses are lessened then bad players will still be put in higher MMR because if someone escapes then they lose less MMR. You're keeping bad players on even higher MMR that they don't deserve.
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Exactly. MMR is just a way to estimate the chance of winning or losing on average. How you win or lose doesn't matter.
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The point is they really aren't changing anything at all. I obviously can't speak for everyone but i feel very disapointed because the change they are making is just MMR gain or loss based on escapes. If 4 escape everyone gets a bit extra MMR, if everyone dies they all lose MMR, if 1 ,2 or 3 escape then whoever died loses a bit less MMR and the others gain a bit more MMR.
So in the end all that matters is MMR not what you did in the match and how you died and they escaped. So doing team work means jack sheet.
Which is wrong, when the game itself already rewards you with BP and Emblem Progress for doing Team work stuff, whenever you get closer to another survivor you get Reunited BP, when ever you aproach a Hooked survivor you get Assist BP, when you do gens together you extra Co-Op BP as bonus on top of the individual BP you get from working on the gen, same thing for healing others... How the hell can the game already be doing that for BP and Emblem but then MMR only counts the end result?
In the end wether i sacrifice myself to save someone else doesn't matter at all, if i heal them or we team up on gens doesn't matter. I can just play as a ghost and it's the same #########. I CAN BE SELFISH AND NOT BE PUNISHED; IN FACT I CAN LET EVERYONE ELSE DIE AND STILL ESCAPE.
The game promotes such a high level of selfishness when it has all the tools to promote Team work and reward team work.
And MMR is useless anyway and will be even more useless since now people will lose less MMR so they're still gonna be in a higher MMR bracket than i should be.
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And that's good because?
It's literally not. It's literally not even a change, you're simply losing less MMR if you get sacrificed as long as someone survives. BUT SOMEOME SURVIVING DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HELPED, which is what this change is supposed to mean. IT's supposed to reflect wether you help them survivor or not.
I can still go hide in a bush all match and get hatch and even if hatch doesn't count for MMR then who cares? Everyone and their mother is Top MMR when the Cap is riddiculously low....So MMR useless, so losing less MMR or gaining a bit more MMR based on how manny escapes or kills there are is absolutly redundant. It changes nothing.
There's still no point in helping each other as survivor, you'll still see manny survivors not help each other. Which changes nothing in SoloQ and still has the issue or making SWF's better. You're gonna SWF with reliable people so even if someone in the SWF dies they lose less MMR but SWF players do help each other unlike SoloQ. And you don't need Comms to help each other, the simple fact you can rely on someone else is already a strong enough reason to SWF over SoloQ.
That's why the game should be made with Team Work in mind instead of giving survivors a way out by playing selfish. Personally i feel much happier knowing i helped others even if end up dead instead of going LoneWolf and surviving. Me being a dick and surviving means jack sheet if everyone else dies because i didn't help them. Me dying because nobody was willing to help me, pisses me off because with me dead i can't help them either. IT's a lose lose for the survivors because they opted to be selfish and not help me.
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I don't wanna say looping the killers is the only important thing as a survivor but it kinda feel that way these days. Someone who ran the killer for 2 to 3 gens is simply more skillful than a guy sitting on gens. The system need to reward looping far greater than it does right now
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Why should looping be rewarded more? All you need to do is equip Windows of Opportunity and you can become a serviceable looper that can run a killer for 2 gens. It's not hard at all
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It's the fun part of the game. Not rewarding it means people would stay on gens. :I
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if this was really the case window would go from one of those most use perks to the best perk ever. 2 gens everytime? sign me up
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It is a giant crutch. I see 3 WoOs a lobby easy
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the game is fill with crutch perks on both sides.
3 in one lobby? did they each run u for 2 gens...joking brother
i definitely got windows and kinderd on every build myself.
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The whole purpose of MMR is to try and help the system make matches that have about a 50% chance of either side winning. Note also that ON AVERAGE someone surviving more often than not in your matches means you probably are helping them more than hurting them, and MMR is about making a rating based on averages over many games.
I do agree that the game should be more clearly based around the idea of the survivors actually being a team. Semi-cooperative game design rarely works well.
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Survivor MMR will be weighted based on how many survivors escape.
If you die, but so does everyone else, your MMR goes down significantly.
If you die, but everyone else lives (likely due to your contributions), then your MMR goes down slightly.
Presuming you are actually playing well, consistently, your wins will be worth more than your losses, and your MMR will go up accordingly.
I'm not exactly sure what your issue is. You say it should be counted as a 4v1 instead of 1v1v1v1... but that's exactly what this is doing...
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If you're a potato and you're the only dead then the game is benefitting you BECAUSE IT'S ONLY COUNTING ESCAPE RATIO FOR MMR.
Wether you play well or not won't matter at all as long as someone Escapes then that is alleviating the MMR loss that you will have. It's not judging how the Escape happened at all, it's only counting the escape regardless of whatever happened.
This is another Casual Gamer benefit, they can now die and lose less MMR.
Not that MMR matters at all, it doesn't, but BHVR is doing this change just because of MMR not because they want people to help each other. That's my dissapointment.
IN the end it's all about Escapes and MMR not about having better team work and less selfish survivors, both of which would be a massive boost to SoloQ life.
If i'm playing well then i'm more likely to escape so my effort is making bad survivors keep an MMR level that they shouldn't be at.
IT's not counting it as 4v1 at all. It doesn't judge what makes the escape possible. You can go hide in a bush all match and escape anyway, where's your contribution to the team? You can let me die so you get Hatch, you can let everyone else die so you get hatch. Where's the team play?
This change is borderline useless and it's spitting in the face of the people that do try to play the game as a team. I don't need Comms to know wether or not a killer is camping, i don't need comms to know where a killer is, i don't need to do what SWF's do to win so SoloQ would be absolutly fine if players weren't selfish but players are selfish and this change to lessen MMR loss based on EScapes will keep saving bad players and keep them higher in MMR so SoloQ will remain the exact same problematic experience.
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And not only does SoloQ remain the same, so does the gneral game Balance where for killer the game will still count everything as 1v1v1v1. It's all about the individual chases for killer when doing fast chases is not only not always possible but also doesn't guarantee wins. If the killer can't pressure the Map well then individual chases won't work cause there's always someone free to do gens. Killers need to keep as manny survivors busy with something other than gens as much as possible.
And no the answer isn't to just go 4 slowdown Perks the answer is to make the game better and an even playing field for all killers, the power creep among killers is just as important as the killer vs survivor balance. The answer is to make the system count the input of survivors as a collaboration effort. Only then will the game consider the strength of the 4 vs the strength of the 1.
Only then will MMR actually make sense.
It's been 6 years, we have enough Maps to where you can do a single layout for each of them and still have enough Maps on rotation to keep the game fresh for everyone. We can get rid of the RNG and Balance maps to be fair for both sides. Why don't we get this!? Idk, maybe by now it's actually impossible to remove RNG from the maps, who knows what the moldy spaghetty code allows...
What the spaghetty code does allow tho is for BHVR to track team work from survivors cause you already get it tracked. There's Co-op BP bonus for doing gens with someone else. there's the REunited BP bonus, there's the Assit BP Bonus...
IT'S ALREADY THERE.... that's the worst, most agrevating thing out of this USELESS MMR BASED CHANGE.
BHVR keeps defending a useless MMR system, that nobody likes, nobody asked for and that's clearly so flawed that it shouldn't exist anymore yet stuborn as always BHVR will defend their decisions till the end in spite of everyone knowing the facts...
The MMR experience is horrible for everyone on both sides! Yet instead of defending the players what does BHVR do? They stick to MMR cause someone somewhere decided that it should be a thing. Just like the new Survivor Loccomotion or the HUD CHANGES nobody asked for, wasted resources on VANITY.
That's what really hurts. Knowing they have the power to do something that will undoubtly benefit everyone and instead they make the things nobody asks for and they stand their guns on things everyone dislikes.
It's the same thing with CoD developers, they insist on doing things everyone calls them out on. You can't even call campers campers, theyr're precious sentinels...Next i'm predicting BHVR will asks us to stop calling campers and tunnelers like that too.
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If you're a potato, then you will lose more games than you win. So it really doesn't matter if you're losing less MMR in some of those games, you're still losing MMR.
Remember averages guys. MMR doesn't matter to any individual game.
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But you're losing less MMR than you should by 1 escape existing. You're being protected even when you're clearly doing bad... Why are we protecting these players? SoloQ is already miserable as it is we don't need to protect the worse players more and have even more players on the same MMR braket as the better players...
MMR is irrelevant but that's because the system doesn't work, if it worked i'd probably consider this change as BHVR has presented it but MMR makes no sense as it exists currently and the kill rates are obvious evidence of the lower skill level of the general population, you can't honestly say Sadako is a great killer, she's not bottom 3 for sure but she's not the monster that the statistics show either. So the only justification possible for those statistics is the lower skill level of the majority of the survivor player base.
The pick rates for Sadako are very low aswell which means there's only a handful of dedicated , higher skill players, playing Sadako that's why her statistics are what they are, high skill killer players vs low skill survivor player.
How can such high skill players be facing so manny low skill players? BECAUSE MMR IS USELESS! It doesn't work when the Cap is so low that low skill players can reach the cap so easily.
Thus lessening the impact MMR losses have for bad players is not a good move. It's simple logics. The only way to invert the situation is for the MMR gains for Escaping to increase by quite a good number so that everyone is focusing on getting more escapes, which might result in more team effort but it's not guaranteed. What would wield better results is to focus instead in teaching players to be more team oriented, that in turn will wield better results in match satisfaction and fun and interactivity between players.
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Dude, you're overreacting.
This is like being upset that some homeless guy got given $10 for free when you're struggling on minimum wage. No one is 'winning' in this scenario.
If lessening the MMR loss of 'bad' survivors is an issue, then those bad survivors will consistently face killers they don't deserve to face, and they will lose more, further driving their MMR down. So maybe it takes 20 games to put them in their rightful place instead of 18 games... so what?
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They are adding the ability for mmr to be adjusted on team performance.
Being the only survivor who escapes gives you less than having all 4 survivors escape.
Dying as the only survivor causes you lose less than if the killer 4Ks.
A single escape or a single death does not matter. You are playing multiple matches and the game is adjusting your mmr constantly. These changes are there to help push teamplay. Now going for a risky end game save is less punishing and is more rewarding in the mmr system. Getting tunneled all game, but actually keeping the killer distracted for all the gen to get done now loses much less mmr as the 3 survivors escape.
Making the mmr into a different kind of emblem system would just create the same issues of the emblem system. In the emblem system you could 4 man escape and still depip, because the killer never hooked or hit anyone. In the emblem system you could pip up despite the killer getting a 4K. Neither of those are accurate either. If you are good at the role you are playing you will escape or kill more often than you die or fail to kill.
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