So is the basekit unbreakable making it next patch ?
So is the basekit unbreakable making it next patch ? I realllyyyyy hope it is...
Slugging is just so not fun.. and slugging for the 4k has become the norm. I am waiting for this change like christmas morning.
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Hopefully not.
The basekit unbreakable and mori changes didn't stop slugging where it counts. It promotes slugging for the 4K, but just makes slugging mid game less effective, which is where it's a viable tactic.
A much better option would be if basekit Unbreakable activated ONLY when ALL survivors were downed, allowing ONE survivor to pick themselves up. This would definitively prevent slugging for the 4K, because as soon as the last one goes down, the first one gets back up. Yet wouldn't negate the use of slugging one or two survivors when forced to due to circumstances, such as no hooks and Boil Over, or body blocking and flashlight save attempts.
Add to this the OPTION to use a finisher mori only on the last remaining survivor, and we're good.
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Don't count on it.
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You're joking? Unbreakable will be basekit?
OMG I don't have to run BT and Unbreakable... Prove Thy Self and Endurance at the ready :D !!!
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Why make it basekit when you can use the perk, I don't get people saying things is a problem and there is perk to counter those problem, but people are not using them, but say they should be basekit.
Am I'm not getting something or what?
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They haven’t announced anything.
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This thread isnt saying it "should" be .. I am asking when it "will" happen... because it is. It's in testing now and has been for some time.
Also, I am saying it should be though. Obviously slugging is an issue or they wouldnt even be floating an idea like this, let alone testing it for the live game.
There is a reason survivor queues are instant, and it isnt because "killers have it so hard"
there is some toxic, unfun gameplay happening and its getting remedied (kind of) slowly bit by bit.
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You're deluded if you think the changes are going to prevent slugging for the 4K. They will only make it worse, while also making the killers job harder.
This is because the new system promotes a 4K, and the only way to secure that will be to tunnel out two survivors, slug the third, and then hunt down the 4th. If the 3rd gets back up, repeat in relay until you get both of them down at the same time and end the game. Those last two survivors will not be able to get any gens done while this is happening, so the game will be in a stalemate until they concede and let themselves be slugged.
Meanwhile, killers who don't want to do this will be unable to make as much pressure out of casual mid-game slugging, as a downed survivor will no longer require another survivor to stop repairing gens to come to their rescue.
Yet more survivor buffs that make it harder for 'decent' killers, and force them to use unsavoury tactics like camping and tunnelling.
So yes, there is a reason why there's some 'unfun' gameplay happening.
If BHVR really don't want to make the state of the game worse than it is, then they need to consider some serious adjustments to their so-called anti-slugging idea.
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I don't understand why people think that basekit UB is coming anytime soon... It would've been in the PTB alongside the Knight if it were coming wouldn't it? It still needs some fine-tuning before coming to live servers, so I'm sure that it's not going to come anytime soon. Maybe there'll be another mid-chapter PTB to test it out again, but who knows.
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bad change overall but survivors take anything over sitting for 4mins. can't blame them
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All survivors would be running unbreakable which new effect would allow the survivor to pick themselves up quicker. Everytime someone go down the team would be on it. The killer will have 22 seconds to pick up or lose out. If they make sure to die on or near a pallet welllll....damn.
Survivors may be able to stop the killer from even obtaining 1 hook the whole match. Which would heavily promote camping more given how hard it would be to hook. Survivors will win more probably and bubba play rate will sky rocket.
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It's to compliment the Finisher Mori update. The update will make it so hooking isn't necessary to finish the game, which would be problematic since so much of the game revolves around hooking (hooking and unhooking contribute to pipping, bps, challenges, and to keep the game moving in general). So the UB basekit will make it so hooking is still appealing and/or necessary. If we weren't getting the Finisher Mori, then I guarantee there'd be no basekit UB. They just go hand in hand.
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They said they need to make some tweaks from the feedback they got from when it was in the PTB and test those changes in another PTB. Until they put it in another PTB I wouldn't expect them to just throw it into a live patch.
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Well as I think it has been said. It was never intended to go live and it was only going into testing. Something that doesn't even need testing. But the answer is no.
And let's hope it never does get into live.
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The only thing I like about whole "Basekit mori and unbreakable" update is the idea of the "Last standing".
Other than that, feels horrid, unlogical (since it's only going to increase slugging), bad idea.
Only if it works like this. Yes.
Or just add the "Last standing" mechanic. Thats it. No basekit mori's or unbreakables.
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Even if they tested it, they probably didn't recieve any good feedbacks. So it might even not happen at all.
My man, even if you don't like slugging, in some situations you just can't do anything but slug.
If you ever played killer, you know about scenarios when survivor getting down on a pallet, and there's another survivor near by, you just can't pick up this survivor, so what do you want the killer to do in such situations, just swallow it, pick up and get pallet stunned?
None of the game mechanics should end up in a hopless situation. This is why they removing blindness from a lockers btw.
Unhealthy (uncounterable) mechanics should not exist in any games. Even in Dead by Daylight.
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I’d love for BHVR to completely scrap both of those mechanics.
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To clear this up, the recent PTB where the mori finisher (including the ability for survivors to raise themselves from the dying state), was only a test - it was made very clear that this was testing the mechanics on the PTB and would not be implemented anytime soon. We wanted feedback of an early test from our players and the system will possibly be revised after listening to that feedback.
I do not have any confirmed dates of when/if there will be a further PTB to test any further iterations of the mechanic.
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Same
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How could you possibly think unhealthy / uncounterable mechanics should not exist and not think the mori unbreakable update is good. There are so many examples of killers forcing a 4 minute bleedout maliciously or not. Also them downing the survivor then trying for the 4k creates a standoff situation were survivors will hide forever and adding that mechanic would help continue the game by incentivizing people to start the end game collapse.
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There are many examples of where the killer is forced to slug a survivor, and the new mori system punished killers when they were forced to slug.
It was extra awful because survivors were going into the PTB with breakdown/flip flop/boil over/unbreakble, and tried as hard as they could to force the killer into situations where the killer had to slug the survivors.
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I think a more restricted way of the ptb bk umbreakable should be done anyway.
It is not healthy for the game to allow killers to produce 4 minutes stalemates everytime they want to 4k.
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The PTB basekit unbreakable didn’t even fix that scenario. It just made the stalemate go on even longer, because the survivors would pick themselves up instead of bleeding out, so the killer would spend even more time slugging for the 4k.
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tbh if it wasn't for the "slugging for 4k" norm, I would probably not even care about this change very much. It's just realllyyy old.
play hard all game.. then it comes down to the final 2... SLAP. ---"here we go"
"ok guess ill just lie here while jimmy goes to collect his 4k."
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At least it would put some pressure in the killer to hook the 3rd surv unless he wants to play whack-a-mole every 40 sec.
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Did you watch streamers play the PTB? That’s exactly what they kept doing. They wanted to get as many new moris as possible, and sometimes that required 10+ minutes of slugging.
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Hopefully never
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But in the PTB they are always testing the mechanics limits. People always take what comes from these videos and overexagerate. Remember when Reassurance was going to break the game? Or Better than new? I think even Wiretap was said to "doom certain killers".
Said that, I seriously doubt that the basekit unbreakable will get to the live servers as it was in the ptb. It will probably be nerfed a lot but i would prefer to have the killer chase me for 10 sec than just be waiting to bleed out because the killer is soft patroling the area.
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Reassurance was heavily nerfed from the PTB, and Wiretap ended up being less effective due to the fact that it doesn't stack with Open Handed.
You don't need to test this system on live servers to see that what happened on the PTB is what will happen live.
The system came with Mori offerings that rewarded you for activating the Finisher Mori. That's more than enough incentive to trigger the Finisher Mori (as if the fact that they exist at all as a quick win wasn't already incentive) in fact it basically gives the killer the singular goal to do just that, and there is only one way to secure that Finisher Mori; tunnel 2, slug the 3rd, and down the 4th. So the system as presented in the PTB WILL result in more 'slugging for the 4K'.
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terrible mechanics i hope they never implement them, completelly unnecesary, no one asked for them
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I like slugging with Adiris :(
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I personally think basekit unbreakable is a good ideea,being slugged on the floor is not fun,the killer has enough time to pick you up anyway.
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Being slugged isn't meant to be 'fun' just like being hooked isn't meant to be 'fun', it's meant to force other survivors to come to your rescue, or incentivise the use of perks that aid you in the dying state, like Unbreakable, Tenacity, Flip Flop, Soul Guard, Power Struggle, etc.
It's a core element of the game and one of the killers tools for applying pressure, and applying pressure is how killers play the game and gain ground against survivors who would otherwise smash out gens in no time. The less pressure a killer can apply, the more they have to rely on camping and tunnelling to secure kills.
Just because it can be abused in some niche circumstances, specifically two, slugging everyone at 5 gens, and slugging for the 4K at the end of the game, doesn't mean all other instances of slugging are 'bad' for the game. In those abusable circumstances would be rectified without invalidating slugging entirely, with the suggestion I included in my first post in this topic.
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Didn’t a dev previously say that slugging isn’t an intended mechanic of the game? If it were analogous to being hooked then the timer would last 60 seconds, survivors, could expedite bleedout, or they could attempt to pick themselves up without a perk. That BHVR releases perks to “counter” common gameplay doesn’t make that gameplay intended. I think this is the only game I’ve ever seen in-game perk/ability counters to unintended gameplay mechanics.
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So Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Tenacity, We're Gonna Make It, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, No Mither and Deer Stalker don't exist?
Of course slugging is an intended mechanic, not only are there two basekit mechanics based on it (the bleedout timer and recovering from the dying state) but there's at least 8 perks based around it.
If anyone said anything of the sort, it would have been that slugging everyone and letting them bleedout instead of hooking them wasn't an intended mechanic. (Except now that will be an intended mechanic due to Finisher Mori's...)
There are often times when slugging is the only option; when there are no hooks in range, when you're against a sabo squad or hook body blockers, when you get swarmed by survivors and down multiple at once, when you play The Twins or The Oni or Myers.
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Honestly, i felt really bummed out when they made it basekit and only changed unbreakable perk to be 100% recovery. As a no mither gamer i was a bit jealous. If they ever do decide to bring it back for testing, i would hope no mither gets that benefit. If it doesnt, id be fine if they never implement base unbreakable it at all. Kinda like how no mither is one of the only perk to pick urself.
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Hopefully "revised" means sent to the Island of Misfit Game Mechanics that no one wants to play with.
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Or maybe survivors just... pick up the slugs? Theyre neither dead or lost one of their hookstates.
As for "slugging at 5 gens" how does repairing gens at 0 hooks sound?
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The devs had a great idea, but was a bit flawed.
Problem was that the mori system took flavor out of the game when survivors still had a winning chance.
Heal tech? Now secures a 2K if there are no other survivors when it would potentially get one or both out.
Everyone slugged near the gates? Free sacrifices when at least a few survivors could get lucky and crawl out.
You have a slug build and your teammate got forced out? It's not a slug build anymore because the game auto sacrificed you.
There are plenty of scenarios, some rarer than others, but regardless, it's a bad idea to take away any chance survivors may have to escape. It would just be more frustrating and remove that spice of flavor from the game where survivors pull "the great escape". Glad it didn't go through.
I do have an idea for a better version without taking away flavor from the survivors.
▪︎When there is only one survivor alive, both sides will get their appropriate status effects:
Killer — Determination: Field of view increased and can perform the finisher mori action on dying survivors.
Survivor — Perseverance: Gain the ability to pick themselves up from the dying state and cannot bleed out while recovering.
That's basically it. Slugging is kept viable, but going for the entire team will not be so easy considering the last survivor could crawl away and recover. This could lead to them getting the hatch or try for the exit gates. The killer will have to work a little more to secure their last victim. No flavor lost for the most part. Perfect system.
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