The Twins need a Good Rework

wiggling is definitely a skill in dbd for survivor. there's survivor that just go left, right, left, right at exact same distance every time. those survivors are pretty easy to hit. proper wiggling is mix-up's. Its more like left-small right-left-large right-left-left. you wiggle in non-obvious pattern. Wiggling is pure mindgame. Its also assertion of risk vs reward in term of distance. sometimes you have to take risks to move forward for 0.5-1 second in straight line at 4.0 m/s. often the most obvious wrong moves in normal looping are correct moves in wiggling. its all about being unpredictable. Its pretty hard to describe. I would argue it's one of top-survivor skills that is difference between top-level survivor and mediocre survivor. good movement goes a long way to winning games as survivor especially against the projectile-type killers.

I mean if you played trickster or huntress against top-level survivors, there's staggering difference between hitting trickster's knives vs tricky movement and people that just run in straight lines with obvious wiggle patterns. Its same for huntress as well. nobody really plays against twins. If you played Twin's PTB, In PTB of twins, Victor used to move like at 1.0 m/s or something when charging his pounce. He was so slow to the point that you could loop a generator and Victor would not be able to hit you. that is how it became obvious for what his weakness was. He got buffed from PTB. Victor is definitely unique killer to loop. Its hard to compare him to anything. you could compare him to demo shred but its not quite demo shred. demo shred feels something like laser-type hitbox. Victor hitbox from what I remember is something like oval. it is harder to hit victor the further away you are from him but its near guaranteed hit if he is pointblank assuming twin's player is competent at aiming victor's pounce.

i am opposite. I like when looping is based off intuition. you would call it luck. I would call it mindreading. wiggling takes a lot of skill from survivor because you need to predict what the killer sees on their screen then make unpredictable movement that is difficult for killer to read. Its not 100% counter-play where you do X and X always 100% auto-wins for you. Its based off mindgames. I do not think twins is a bad killer in 1vs1, but i think twin is hard to play because her 4vs1 is kinda difficult to execute correctly from lack of information, the whole kidnap victor for 30+10 second regrowth(?) and healing hurting her in general. not enough time for her gameplay to go for hooks.

I know i am being dreaming here, but her power would greatly benefit from pyramid head's torment cages. For example if victor downs while injured, you automatically get hooked into a torment cage. in that case, survivor might complain less of slugging, but my intuition with twins is that they were designed to be based off chaining multiple downs and leaving survivors on the floor. Its more of matter of accepting their gameplay and adapting to it. survivor do not like adapting to it and killer's dislike playing her because its not worth stress. I am suggesting some changes that lower her skill-floor and make her more approachable as a killer.

your entitled to your own opinion. predicting where the killer is shooting/aiming is mindgame. Most of the strong killers centralize around skill-shot powers, As a result, It is an important skill-cap for survivor. Victor is skill-shot power. He requires mindgames to defeat and loop. That is why Twin is not weak killer. not in 1vs1. The better twin's player is, the harder it is to loop victor.

your hiding your red light and hoping the survivor plays badly. let me flip your statement for the killer. I am hoping that when I play a ranged killer, My opponent just walks in a predictable straight line so I always hit them with my ability. I am hoping for my opponent to have bad movement for me to have 100% accuracy with my ability.

Sure, wiggling is something you can do against the killer to make it harder for killer to hit you. Holding Victor hostage for 30 seconds which disables Twin's power for ~40 seconds is asking the killer to lose by generator efficiency because the player is being impaired from pressuring the map with their ability. Most of what you named is not counter-play either. Its stuff that does not work vs good killer or is 100% certain to work vs killers. For example, faking demo shred at a window does not work because the demo player can hold their shred, walk up to you, then cancel it or hit shred because it has big hitbox and any player with decent fps skills will get pointblank hit 9/10 times. I am not sure what crouching teching is. Is it crouching at a corner and hoping the killer goes past you? I have seen that gimmick as killer. Just a free hit. Spinning does not work vs good killers. 360's only works for killer who have crap m1 tracking with their lunge attack, low level killer play. I do not know what reverse pallet dropping is but walking in front of the killer is guaranteed hit when your injured. You will not pallet stun the killer. As for line of sight, If your always able to have proper positioning to block line of sight with objects, than killer has no counter-play to survivor's gameplay. For example, If I cannot get an angle with Albert Wesker's Virulent bound within his 2 dashes, then there no play that killer can make to hit the survivor. Line of sight is not counter-play, its denying all gameplay from the opposing side.

You need to be able to make a play as killer for survivor to do a counter-play. In this case, The killer takes shots and the survivor avoids shots by having difficult to hit movement.

I thought crouch tech was when survivors have iron will/off the record and they crouch in the doorway. I sometimes see that as killer when I am walking through shack doorway. It makes me wonder if that guy watches too much youtube highlight reels vs bad killers. Those bad killer clearly do not understand how scratch marks work when entering a doorway.

The killer your describing make no sense. billy backrev his chainsaw and there is technique called chainsaw feathering which is when you 95% your chainsaw to read the survivors movements to get the hit. missing backrev chainsaw as billy is embarrassing. Demo and Blight make even less sense.

I think only three killer you can use crouching in a chase is Nemesis, Huntress(when huntress is throwing across objects) and Deathslinger. Nemesis, you can crouch his tentacle and if there is object in front of him(like a window), your invulnerable to him. Huntress moves at 77% when holding a hatchet which is like 5 stacks of pwyf, so you duck hatchets on certain loops. Slinger is similar. you can duck on certain places if you know he is going fire over a certain obstacle hole.

according wiki. pounce moves at 28.35 m/s which is 708%. wow that is faster then demo charge. I just looked that up as I started writing this post.

Keyword: Reaction. Mindgames are not reactions. They are games played in the mind. your not suppose to react to them. your suppose predict what your opponent will do in advance with no information. Its similar to old spirit.

The purpose of distance is to make killer need to estimate where the survivor is instead of directly look at hitbox of the survivor and releasing button. Its process called leading the shot. It makes killer have to predict where the survivor is going to be instead of where the survivor is on the screen. Your trying to make the shot as difficult as possible to land. Its not about dodging at 100% consistency. It is about reducing the probability that your opponent successfully hits you. that is what counter-play is. its lowering probability of something being effective. Not making it completely ineffective(0% chance to hit) which is what line of sight is.

Low-level survivor wiggling is just swaying from side to side. Its an easy pattern to follow. high-level wiggling is closer to straight line, but its not straight line. its random pattern line that is difficult to follow. The further you are from the killer, the harder it is for the killer to track your movements especially if the movements are erroneous as as purple line. Survivors with good movement are way harder to land hits on compare to survivor with green-line movement. Your just looking at counter-play as every other casual player looks at counter-play. your trying find a 100% certain method that always works to remove the mindgame of the ability when mind games inherently are about uncertainty and probability. Of course, with any probability problem, your always trying to minimize probability and make the probability as favourable as possible for yourself. That is to say, Not all mindgames are equal 50/50's, Players often try to find ways to skewed it to their side(Such as running Toy sword Twins to make it easier to land pounces/lower counter-play.)

what good timing? crouching is instantaneous action. you can read the killer's animations and react to it. Usually when killers use their powers, their aim is accommodated by understanding their hitbox limit, so crouching to reduce hitbox is really stupid if you can do this in reliable way that turns hits into misses.

I do not agree with nemesis's crouching at windows/pallet tech to erase his range capacity. its too easy. Old billy is about predicting his curving routing. he is usually curving inwards or outwards. most of the time, its inward because survivors when looping usually hug the walls of loop so that they can most efficiently loop around objects to get maximum amount of rotations of a loop. Just side-stepping is sufficient counter-play for billy's chainsaw. Now a days, Billy is rare sighting because his chainsaw has too long of charge time. Billy is too slow in his chainsaw ability to curve survivors that hug efficiently the walls. You can often make it around the corner without requiring the need to side-step his curves.Once again, Line of sight becoming hard-counter to his ability which is bad design. Blight is more complicated billy, but you can wiggle his lethal rush in certain instances, though your better off understand his bump logic to avoid requiring the need to side-step his ability as it is mostly favourable for him to hit you. I am aware of his hitbox and I am certain LilithOmen understand the hitbox as well.

grunts of pain only happen when your injured. Grass moving? Avoid the grass? Footsteps? Walk as she catch-up. Base-kit spirit is so slow that you often outrun her phase-walk if your far enough away from her. You do not need to see her if your far away. You can calculate her catch-up very accurately. Directional audio cue is really stupid now a days for spirit. ruined the character.

its not suppose to work reliably. If you can always do X and expect Y to occur then doing X every time against the killer is just free auto-win. that is just stupid. Speaking of which, dropping pallets every 12 seconds produced a 2 minute 17 second chase vs spirit. Definitely looks like a broken killer. For reference, 5 generators take 90x5 seconds to do and 3 survivors only need 2 minutes and 30 seconds to finish all 5 gens, so doing 2 minute 17 second chase is 4-5 generators in 1 chase. Its game-losing chase for killer to have this long of a chase. Scottjund video just proves that spirit does have counter-play. She needed no changes. Survivors just cried because they could not adapt to her play-style.

Spirit's gameplay is exactly how victor's gameplay works at pallets. just pre-drop every pallet vs victor and use pallets as mindgames for very strong pallets. The lesser safe pallets, you can try pallet stun victor, but it relies on making reads on his pounces. This whole conversation feels like your complaining that the killer has mindgames and that you need to loop differently in risky way instead of the ultra-easy mode looping that most killers have.

are we once again complaining about killer camping? I mean if you crouch, victor does not detect you with killer instinct+with recent buffs to survivor base-kit, you get borrow time base-kit so if victor hits borrow time or hits endurance such as dead hard, he goes on cooldown and you can kick him. Miserable to go against is not an excuse to keep the killer bad.

As you can see with old spirit, the comp player has long chases. M1 Charlotte is a joke to loop. Not hearing heartbeat is irrelevant in most cases for when your in the chase. With survivor keeping victor hostage, your forced to get looped for 30 seconds because you cannot use your ability. Its dumb gameplay design for the killer. Twin's need some quality of life changes to make her more enjoyable to play as for killer. she is too inaccessible to play for the most part in my opinion. the game favours hooking when she favours chain downs. I think remember patrick saying that twin would get changes but it will be in the very distant future. I guess we will see what changes for her in the next year.

yes because your not account walking time and healing time. you would be surprised, but a lot of the survivor's time is spent walking and healing. Assuming the killer is successful at applying pressure and winning chases, the game is extended for survivor for every chase they fail. Its just not extended enough for the killer to go for many chases since unhooking takes very little time and grouping healing also takes very little time if survivor are efficient at these activities. Part of skill-cap for survivor is being able to push generators while being pressure by the killer. that is what strong survivors teams are effective at. When a killer is getting looped for 2 minutes, this is 2 minutes where killer is not applying any pressure to the team because he got 0 hits. As a result, you will lose all generators or most of generators and be unable to comeback without slugging or a successful tunnel.

I do not want to talk about the survivor items. the whole streetwise/prove thyself(Old leader) genrushing has been in the game for like 6 years. Toolbox got nerfed to only be accessible for SWF genrushing, but originally they were available for soloq with 180 charge commodious toolboxes. The build re-emerged when felix was released with his build to last perk. Strangely enough, survivors were not using it. They eventually buffed build to last to work multiple times but added small window to recharge the item. It has further been buffed with emergence of hyperfocus+stake out. Genrushing build is nothing new. it has been in the game for long time.

between loops, spirit has 1.5 second cast activation time. Do you ever see trapper just stand still randomly for 1.5 second in middle of the chase? Of course not. Standing still as killer in middle of the chase is silly. You can tell when spirit is going into phase by standing still. You can also estimate her catch-up time. In most cases, Spirit's activation time and her low movement speed is not enough to catch-up to the survivor at base-kit. Hold-w is pretty effective vs spirit. The speed add-on were 5%/10%/15%/40%. At best, your facing 25% extra speed with regular add-on's on old spirit, but old green speed was removed. Now only iri ring does anything particularly useful. After you have seen one of her phases, you can mostly estimate her precise phase distance if you have good understanding of movement speed in this game.

Spirit at loops is all about mindgames and predicting her routing. you pre-drop pallets and use pallets as mindgames like the comp player in the video. All the killer are suppose to be about blinding guessing. blinding guessing is a skill. reading your opponents mind is what dbd should be about. not looping ring-round rosy with low/no mindgame loops.

You can wiggle blight, its not reliable way to loop blight but it is not suppose to be.

Pre-dropping pallet is NOT SUPPOSE TO WORK against any killer but it does. every pallet should have mindgame for every killer. Its not suppose to be 100% safe. its suppose to be unsafe. This is why old spirit was balanced. her power fixed the bad loop design of the game for killer. All the killer should be like spirit.

that is entire point, a mindgame by definition alternative game within the game(DBD) in which the player plays a game in the mind. The game being played is not on the screen.

This is exact definition of not a mindgame. Reacting to what your opponent does is not mindgame. it is reacting. The audio cue gives precise details for where spirit is phasing. there is no point being invisible. you might as well be visible like wraith.

In order create a mindgame, you need two aspect to be true

1) The mindgame does not allow the player to be able to humanly react to the ability.

2) The player who is trying to win the mindgame has a lack of information.

This is why spirit was mindgame. You could not react to her ability because you had no information on her routing. you had to predict her routing. Not listen for her precise routing. The killer has to listen to sound cues as guidance to predict the survivor routing. your entire post is making it seem like this interaction is unfair for the survivor when it is not.

Going back Twins and Victor. Wiggling is mindgame. The survivor has lack of information when the killer releases the pounce and you have to predict where the Victor pounce is being aimed to avoid the pounce hit. your saying twin(victor) is unfun to loop. To me, it sounds like you dislike playing survivor and dislike mindgames in general. Your ideal balance for Victor would be adding a red indicator when victor is aiming at you and having 1 second delay after the killer player releases their pounce ability thus removing any need to wiggle since you would be able to react to his pounce by looking at the big red ! indicator sign. Some games have that where AI has unblockable attacks, but they put big red ! when the enemy is using the attack. This is perfect description of how to remove mindgames. Just put indicator and large activation delay on the attacks. hand-holding game design. Dbd does a lot of hand-holding for survivor but at least its not hand-holding you on ranged attacks. Not yet.

they're sluggish to play to prevent tag-teaming and zoning with two killers. What is wrong about playing a slug game? Victor would need to apply torment on the survivors and if victor downs someone that is injured, They would need to be sent to torment cages automatically like pyramid head's power. That would reduce slugging and encourage automatic hooking for Twins. I am not exactly sure why survivor take offence in slugging. Slugging is currently not very rewarding and you can often get pick-up for free second chances by your teammates. this is one of reasons why twin is not popular killer. She is not rewarding to play and her strategy currently is difficult to execute. Its hard to keep people injured making it difficult to slug(chain downs)+lack of information to do so. holding victor hostage and abusing lockers is unfun for the killer. Hooking survivor is painful while slugging is unrewarding(for the killer) if the survivor team is effective at countering it. On top of that, you have to be stellar at landing every single victor pounce to be good at twins which can be difficult depending on survivor skill-level in movement. Twin's needs to massively over-perform compare to effort required for survivor to win. Its not surprising that twin is not popular. Just unfun killer to play in current iteration of dbd.

Your describing the opposite experience. the survivor can make many mistakes in chases but still escape. This is especially true if the killer spreads hooks and plays inefficiently. Killer need to massively outperform consistently at baseline to win strong survivor teams and even then, there is still a chance that end up losing and walking away with at best 2 kills.

Most of the time, you did not need information to know where she was phasing but there was 2 ways to tell if she was phasing. the first is that if spirit is using default skin, her shards would light up.

Spirit when entering phase had phase cycles. When she enters phase, her phase cycle resets. It was just very high-level to know she was phasing but most of the time, this was not required to loop spirit in first place.

As shown by scottjund video who is self-proclaimed "good spirit", he had long chase with survivor. You didn't need information to loop spirit, you just need good predictions which is what spirit was all about.

5 meter is less then killer lunge range. As I said with pallets. Its about predicting her pathing and use the pallet as mindgame. You force spirit to guess on you like comp player did in the video. Its not suppose to be 100% certain counter-play. that is reserved for broken windows and safe pallets that lack mindgames like entire Gideon meat packing plant map or Garden of joy main building window.

Hiding your red light removes information from the survivor because red light is essentially wall-hacks on the killer hence its called red glow mindgame because you lose information on the killer's location and need to make blind guess on whether to vault window or bluff window vault. Its just that in many situations, you can take safe option which removes risk from the decision.

opposite, I like the game being difficult for the survivor. Given your description and knowledge about exploits, you want the game the game to be about looping and using cheesy exploits that auto win the killer power. Your description of skill is learning how to drop 20 pallets on Gideon meat packing plant then T-bagging at exit gate.

There is definitely a difference between a survivor that has bad predictable movement and good unpredictable movement where landing a hit is difficult. I would argue that Wiggling is one of the highest skill-caps for survivor. Wiggling and dodging skill-shots is about reading your opponent and predicting where their aiming. Its on completely different level compare to looping in term of difficulty. You could say its luck based but the stronger survivors do have high probability in making the killer miss their shot compare players with poor movement. As a result, they win more games because their movement is good.

A lot of windows in the game have these rotational loop patterns where the killer cannot do much about them other then take an arbitrary loop that wastes time. Its same with pallets. a majority of pallet just waste killer time and the killer mostly waits for them to get dropped so they can break it. Looping does take skill but I would say its more knowledge based over skill. wiggling definitely takes more skill then looping. Looping is very reliable strategy to waste the killer's time. This is why its so popular.

Wiggling is not a popular strategy because it is inherently unreliable and difficult. Spirit was difficult and unreliable killer to loop. This is why she was strong. Now she is more reliable to loop because of directional audio cue. its just looping fast killer for 5 seconds. Nothing special. Its why she is played a lot less compare to old days. I remember when spirit had like 10% pick-rate and every game was spirit. Back then, she was a lot more fun to play. far more enjoyable then current iteration. Oh well, Easy come, Easy go.

If your skill did not matter at all and it was entirely based off spirit's skill, then why was the chase so long? you would expect every single chase to have exact same duration. You look like your repeating yourself a lot more then I am.

Well I definitely disagree. A survivor with tricky movement is more difficult to hit then a survivor with no movement. Your saying that killer have 100% accuracy on their ability. I would say killers miss their ability more often based off how tricky the surivovor movement is. Having tricky movement does not guaranteed dodging every attack. your only more likely to make the killer miss. I'm sure there are many survivor player that make twin players miss pounces and get victor crushed which results in twin's losing games. I would imagine that being part of why she has low-play rate. very punishing killer to play that requires a lot of macro play and macro game knowledge along with strong degree in micro gameplay for not great rewards. I don't know what to tell you, but difficult to land skillshots+slugging is among highest skill-cap elements on the killer side. Not a very accessible killer in my opinion.

um, no? there are no mindgames with spirit anymore. She is somewhat normal looping killer now. She has directional audio cue. you know exact precise location of the killer. there is no guessing or catching anyone off guard. These days, I can dead hard the spirit attack out of phase-walk and sometimes get pallet stuns on spirits in phase-walk. You can semi-consistently 1vs1 the spirit. I thought that was the whole point of the change?

I don't know, I just do not think there is mindgames with her anymore. The sense of anticipation and uncertainty in predicting her movement faded away? my conclusion from this conversation is that killers with mindgames-type powers are miserable to play against and not very fun for survivor. Only looping and being in near full control of the chase is fun for survivor. I guess it all add up to why deathslinger and spirit were changed in the same update. such unskillful killers /s.

so how is that any different with other killer powers when killer guess wrong? When I guess wrong, I get long chases as killer and lose. When survivor guess wrong, they get short chases. its fair interaction.

first of all, this is not mindgame. you can see what billy is exactly doing and react to his negative movement speed penalty when holding his chainsaw. Reacting =/ is not mindgames. Mindgames are cannot be seen nor can you react to them they are only predictable. its like playing chess 3D but knowing what your opponent next move is before he does the move in advance. I cannot really go on to further explain this anymore then I have to. In reference to billy, if your movement is good enough, you can always make corner on every curve currently with billy. curving does not work vs good players anymore. Furthermore, you can often just detach loops at key moments and then billy who is trying his curving will just look like a circus clown.

Old billy curving worked because he could dynamically loop as normal m1 killer at 115% m/s, but at any point in the loop, he could curve loops by having 1.6 chainsaw cast time, this was refer to as "instasaw" that appeared by using a green add-on called carburettor tuning guide which reduced charge time by 18% and primer blub which also reduced the charge by another 18%(36% total). In any case, he had mindgame where you had to guess his chainsaw charge time for when he releases his chainsaw and you had to predict where billy was aiming his chainsaw. So once again, lack of information+impossible to react to by human standards due to fast m/s. This is what mindgame is, not that baby mode billy that you see today.

going back to your statement. Survivors do have a problem with mindgames. you do not want mindgames, you want loop killers around and perfectly react to whatever killer is doing. that is what spirit is now a days. you can just loop spirit like a normal killer around safe loops. in essence spirit has to guess where the survivor is while survivor knows where she is. She has a bit more gameplay at unsafe loops but almost every killer has gameplay there.

The frustration of reading this post drives me wild. Oh man. your not suppose to react the shot.... your suppose predict when he is about to shoot and dodge at very last mili-second. For how small his harpoon gun spear is (hitbox-wise), wiggling vs slinger's gun right now, he has greater odds to miss long ranges shot then hits shots. You can almost react to deathslinger's gun and side-step outside of his harpoon gun on reaction. Its so stupid for slinger at the moment. And this wind-up thing with huntress hatchets does not matter either other then increasing the odds for huntress to suffer from Line of sight(LOS) issues. thank goodness that wind-up add-on exist to make this less of pain. Once again, its suppose to be about mindgaming.... and anticipation.

2 meter away is nearly pointblank. I can usually get to 4 meters away from victor almost consistently because I can take account into his 1 second charge time(where he cannot attack), I don't know how to describe it, but its something like dodging old instasaw billy backrev's without instant down part. your describing a learn to play issue. Victor hitbox is not that big where he is further away. only when he is really close is he dangerous but twin's player rarely use victor like hail mary grenade. Not a reliable way to hit with victor. Another thing i forgot mention is that victor does not work really well on elevations, like staircases are like really bad for victor.

what you learn over-time as playing survivor is knowing how to guess and when to guess. Also how to avoid guessing when it is not necessary to guess. your looking for how to loop killer for 5 generators every game consistently. With old dead hard, I made so few mistakes in loops that most m1 killers if they commited to chasing me would lose like 3 generator, sometimes even 5 generators in a single chase. Luckily, good killer players do not just blindly commit to chases and know when to stop chasing, so after MMR, its not very likely that a killer player will do those mistakes because good killer know when a survivor is good and when committing to the chase is not worth it.

in conclusion, I do not agree with communities notion of mindgames. Because a lot of killer powers lack mindgames to their ability(weak abilities), a lot of killer are at mercy of survivor's looping skill in my opinion which creates fast gen-speed because of lack ability to pressure survivors and win chases. I wish killer power were more impactful but due to allergy of mindgames, its seems that direction is to de-void killer powers from having mindgames. Just have everything telegraphed. Who knows, perhaps they'll eventually weaken pallet loop enough to make killers not need powers to need have mindgames. Killer will just bloodlust win every loop. This is just my 2 cents on the topic.

every word in language often has context and in the context of real life, Mindgame is more synonym of the word Deception which is act of deceiving another person which if we expand word deceiving. It is something along lines of making someone believe something that is false/untrue which is what you are posting.

Mindgame in the context of DBD is not deception. We are not playing town of salem or original name, Mafia. Its not game about deceiving. In the context of dbd, when player refer to a mindgame, its related to predicting what the opponent will do before they do it with minimal/no information.

I also do not understand all these scottjund because.... these scottjund videos are textbook example of... how not play vs spirit. Man, I hate the whole balance around -bad- survivor players mentality. This whole thing he is talking about does not work vs good survivors..... you hear directional where spirit is phasing. in other words. you know exactly her precise location every second. that is why she has no dust clouds because who needs dust clouds with directional audio cue, the audio cue is better then seeing the killer with wall-hacks. you slide pallets on reaction. there is no mindgames. I went to search old video to showcase this. tru3 showcases this on ptb.

As you can see, he can track spirit on the hill perfectly and shack pallet perfectly which applies to all pallets in the game. This is what I mean that spirit has no mindgames because its all reaction and reaction are not mindgames. they are... reactions.

This is wrong. you do have general information. Deathslinger is going to shoot at some point, you need figure out at what point he is going to shoot and Spirit is going phase and you need figure out her routing to neutralized effectiveness of phasing. that is entire mindgame behind their ability. this is entire point of their mindgame.

that is literally billy's mindgame. you don't know when he is going release the chainsaw and you do not know where he is going to aim. you just know he is going to use it. you have to guess what trajectory the billy will use his chainsaw. that is same mindgame that victor has with his pounce. you know he is going to use pounce, you don't know where the player will aim it, you need guess where the player will aim it and you wiggle while moving as forward as possible to make it as difficult as possible to land the hit.

With current billy, he charges his chainsaw too slowly and he walks too slowly to curve because the survivor is always going to be perfectly 180-degree's from billy's position. that is just how looping works. He can't walk to correct position to curve because survivor can always walk to correct edge of the loop to avoid curve. As a result, there is no mindgame. its just reacting to where billy walks. this whole current counter-play is Line of sight+Reactions and as I said, Line of sight+Reaction /= is not mindgames.

what made him good before is that he could rotate loop by walking as 115% m/s killer and dynamically curve around loop. you could not line of sight billy, you needed to predict when he releases his chainsaw and where he dashes with his chainsaw. it created interesting mindgames at loops.

there is skill in blind guessing. I mean Poker is great example of a game based off guessing your opponent cards, the incoming cards on the board which are known as flop, the turn and river. Some player win a lot and other player lose all the time. There is skill-cap behind guessing correctly more often then being wrong. you can never be fully correct because there is element of luck, but it is not pure luck. it is combination of luck and intuition.

The killer that are strong in DBD are strong because they force you to guess on their gameplay. They play a mindgame on top of regular dbd gameplay loop. One of key details behind mindgames is that they create an illusion of lose/lose situation, not that situation is lose/lose. it just looks like lose/lose situation. there is suppose to be always a correct play. It is just difficult to always do the correct play because principal of mindgames is revolves around a lack of information to make correct play every time. If you could see your opponent hand every time, you'd win every card game but that is whole challenge.

I am saying you can know her position as shown in the spirit is dead video.

one of major differences between better survivors and worse survivors is putting yourself in favourable position to guess correctly. there is no name for this, but it is about taking the path of least resistance. Remember what I said about wiggling in my previous post? Wiggling is about confusing killer where he is suppose to shoot while moving as forward as possible.. its risk vs reward mechanism. Worse survivor over-wiggle/wiggle incorrectly because their objective with wiggling is never get hit rather then to reduce probability of getting hit. You need to know how to hold-w effectively vs slinger to take path of least resistance then guess incoming shots that are inevitable to occur through normal dbd gameplay loop. You just want a full proof 100% strategy that asserts 0% probability in getting hit. In your ideal form of killers, you want to line of sight the killer and give near zero probability for the killer to shoot and just in case, he does get to shoot, you want to react to his shot and be able to near 100% dodge it. That is kinda of where slinger is at now a days. Survivor main logic is amusing. I will give it that.

I have nothing more to say about the topic. you can believe that seeing everything the killer does precisely and doing appropriate play is you outplaying the killer(winning mindgames) but I do not agree with that notion.